Pats need to win the last 2 and go 14 and 2.

[mosslost]

If KC won out, and NE lost to Miami, NE would still get the #1 seed. Oakland would be irrelevant.

you are missing the point. You will not KNOW if KC wins out until AFTER we play Miami. And if KC loses after we lose to Miami, and Oakland won out, Oakland has HFA. So unless Oakland loses to the Colts next week, we MUST beat Miami, if we want to ensure that we have HFA. The question has never been that it is necessary to beat Miami to get HFA in that scenario.. it is that is going to be necessary to try and win BOTH our games, no matter what, IF Oakland beats the Colts. Do you see?

 

[mosslost]

It matters because it would have given NE more room for error because (a) NE's win over DEN gives NE the tiebreaker over KC, and (b) KC has the tiebreaker over OAK.

If KC had beaten TEN and then won out, NE could still lose a game and win the #1 even if OAK won out. But with KC losing, NE has to win out if OAK wins out.

No matter what happened with that KC game, this reply I made to another below remains true:

"you are missing the point. You will not KNOW if KC wins out until AFTER we play Miami. And if KC loses after we lose to Miami, and Oakland won out, Oakland has HFA. So unless Oakland loses to the Colts next week, we MUST beat Miami, if we want to ensure that we have HFA. The question has never been that it is necessary to beat Miami to get HFA in that scenario.. it is that is going to be necessary to try and win BOTH our games, no matter what, IF Oakland beats the Colts. Do you see?"

 

[BobDigital]

The Colts are red hot right now and they are fighting for the division title. I think they are going to help us out this weekend.

Colts are desperate for sure and need to win next week but also need a lot of help to get in.

 

[upstater1]

you are missing the point. You will not KNOW if KC wins out until AFTER we play Miami. And if KC loses after we lose to Miami, and Oakland won out, Oakland has HFA. So unless Oakland loses to the Colts next week, we MUST beat Miami, if we want to ensure that we have HFA. The question has never been that it is necessary to beat Miami to get HFA in that scenario.. it is that is going to be necessary to try and win BOTH our games, no matter what, IF Oakland beats the Colts. Do you see?

What I wrote was that, those rooting for the Titans to beat KC are making a mistake, because IF KC won out, then the Patriots could afford a loss to Miami.

It's pretty simple stuff. Even if the Patriots lost to Miami, they might have gotten the #1 seed with KC wins.

 

[upstater1]

there is also a good shot that Mia has a play-off spot wrapped up after next week....just need Pitt to beat Balt and KC to beat den..both at home. This would help Pats as they might be playing for #1 seed, while Mia would already be in, maybe just a matter of #6 vs #5 seed.

But that's a big difference in seed for Miami.

It means an away game at Pitt/Baltimore, or an away game at Houston/Tennessee.

Plenty of incentive there.

 

[XLIX]

No matter what happened with that KC game, this reply I made to another below remains true:

"you are missing the point. You will not KNOW if KC wins out until AFTER we play Miami. And if KC loses after we lose to Miami, and Oakland won out, Oakland has HFA. So unless Oakland loses to the Colts next week, we MUST beat Miami, if we want to ensure that we have HFA. The question has never been that it is necessary to beat Miami to get HFA in that scenario.. it is that is going to be necessary to try and win BOTH our games, no matter what, IF Oakland beats the Colts. Do you see?"

Mosslost is right. The only way the Miami game is meaningless to us at the time it is played is if Oakland loses to Indy this weekend (and we beat NYJ).

Otherwise, come New Year's Day, we will have to try against Miami (whether it is a 1 or 4:00 game) because we won't know how Oakland-Denver and KC-SD shake out.

What I wrote was that, those rooting for the Titans to beat KC are making a mistake, because IF KC won out, then the Patriots could afford a loss to Miami.

It's pretty simple stuff. Even if the Patriots lost to Miami, they might have gotten the #1 seed with KC wins.

This is correct as well, so I think there is simply a miscommunicate since both of the above is right.

 

[BobDigital]

Would also depend on Baltimore and the AFC South. Denver has to win in KC and hope fins, ravens, titans/texans lose. If all that happened they would have a shot but its pretty unlikely.

Depending on how things happen it could be likely. I like Pitt to beat the Ravens and if the 1st seed is not locked up for the Pats I'd like them to beat the dolphins. I don't think Titans/Texans matter as they have to play each other 1 time so it forces a loss there.

However that assumes they win both games. If they do I think they likely make it unless the Pats don't need week 17 or Pitt chokes.

 

[upstater1]

They wouldn't have to all start all the AFC games at 4:45. If the AFC North is not decided, they can start the AFC North games simultaneously at 1:00. Similarly, they can play the AFC South games at 1:00 as well.

But wouldn't that mean the other wild cards playing at 4 pm would already know Pitt and Baltimore's wild card chances?

 

[upstater1]

Mosslost is right. The only way the Miami game is meaningless to us at the time it is played is if Oakland loses to Indy this weekend (and we beat NYJ).

Otherwise, come New Year's Day, we will have to try against Miami (whether it is a 1 or 4:00 game) because we won't know how Oakland-Denver and KC-SD shake out.
This is correct as well, so I think there is simply a miscommunicate since both of the above is right.

That's not even the discussion. We're talking about why a KC win yesterday would have been better for the Patriots. Because if KC had won out, then the Patriots could have afforded a loss to Miami.

 

[mosslost]

What I wrote was that, those rooting for the Titans to beat KC are making a mistake, because IF KC won out, then the Patriots could afford a loss to Miami.

It's pretty simple stuff. Even if the Patriots lost to Miami, they might have gotten the #1 seed with KC wins.

right, but they still would have had to TRY to win the game. (No resting anyone)

 

[upstater1]

It matters because it would have given NE more room for error because (a) NE's win over DEN gives NE the tiebreaker over KC, and (b) KC has the tiebreaker over OAK.

If KC had beaten TEN and then won out, NE could still lose a game and win the #1 even if OAK won out. But with KC losing, NE has to win out if OAK wins out.

Exactly, you get it.

 

[mosslost]

That's not even the discussion. We're talking about why a KC win yesterday would have been better for the Patriots. Because if KC had won out, then the Patriots could have afforded a loss to Miami.

ok. I get what you are saying. We are on two different topics I think. I was just saying there is no way we can rest everybody week 17, (or even sort of "help" the Dolphins and bounce the Steelers/Ravens loser out) because we will need to win the Miami game. (Unless the Colts beat Oakland) Since we won't know the results of either the Oakland game or the KC game yet final week. I get what you are saying about KC winning out though not really being a threat to us at all even if they won yesterday. (unless we dropped the ****ing Jets game)

 

[sambam94]

If it comes to week 17 and the Pats lose to MIA at 1:00, expect no help from Den at 4:00 against Oak because Den will most likely be out already...even if they win this week in KC and KC loses week 17..KC has the tie breaker over Den.

 

[XLIX]

But wouldn't that mean the other wild cards playing at 4 pm would already know Pitt and Baltimore's wild card chances?

It is tough to say for certain since it depends on how everything plays out this weekend. It depends a great deal on who wins KC-Denver this weekend. Denver could be eliminated this weekend and all the teams vying for the final WC would be able to play at 1:00. But if Denver beats KC and is still alive, I don't think they will move everybody to 4:00 just to prevent Denver from knowing the results of the early games.

The league wants to avoid a situation where a team gets to unfairly rest their starters because they know they have already clinched. No matter what happens, Denver won't be able to rest their starters for that final game. They will need to play hard no matter what happens in the early games (unless, of course, they are already eliminated in which case their "extra knowledge" doesn't really benefit them terribly much).

 

[mosslost]

If it comes to week 17 and the Pats lose to MIA at 1:00, expect no help from Den at 4:00 against Oak because Den will most likely be out already...even if they win this week in KC and KC loses week 17..KC has the tie breaker over Den.

plus they have no offense

 

[sambam94]

It is tough to say for certain since it depends on how everything plays out this weekend. It depends a great deal on who wins KC-Denver this weekend. Denver could be eliminated this weekend and all the teams vying for the final WC would be able to play at 1:00. But if Denver beats KC and is still alive, I don't think they will move everybody to 4:00 just to prevent Denver from knowing the results of the early games.

The league wants to avoid a situation where a team gets to unfairly rest their starters because they know they have already clinched. No matter what happens, Denver won't be able to rest their starters for that final game. They will need to play hard no matter what happens in the early game (unless, of course, they are already eliminated).

a Mia win at 1:00 probably eliminates Den

 

[XLIX]

a Mia win at 1:00 probably eliminates Den

Agreed, so if that happens then yes when Denver plays their game they would know they were eliminated, but the "extra knowledge" they gain is not a problem because they are out.

What the league would not allow would be a situation where Denver played at 1:00 and Miami at 4:00 because if Denver lost at 1:00 then Miami would clinch the WC and could rest their starters, thereby "gaining" from the extra knowledge (yes, I know that Denver can't play at 1:00 on January 1, and there are all sorts of scenarios that would make the above not necessarily the case, but I am speaking hypothetically).

 

[fightingirish595]

The afc south realistically can get two teams in if Miami loses their next two which is completely possible

 

[sambam94]

The afc south realistically can get two teams in if Miami loses their next two which is completely possible

Balt would have to lose to Cinn in week 17 for that to happen..IMO, better chance of both Pitt/Balt getting in than Hou/Tenn

 

[fightingirish595]

Balt would have to lose to Cinn in week 17 for that to happen..IMO, better chance of both Pitt/Balt getting in than Hou/Tenn

I dont know. I have a funny feeling baltimore is going to go 8-8.