Pats/Jags Game Plan, Breakdown ...

[Deus Irae]

True, but I think Andy's point was that we've also overcome "Blueprint" teams in some of our wins, as well. The "Blueprint" might be the best way to beat us, but it's not guaranteed (which we already knew anyway). So, after all that, we're all right back to square one.

Andy doesn't really have a point. There's a simple reality to dealing with the Patriots in the playoffs. You beat them with a defense that's built in a certain way. It's not 100%, but every other way has been 0% since the offensive retooling of 2007. "Blueprint knockout" leads "Patriots SB win" 7-2 in that time.

We can look to specifics in an attempt to get to the "why" of each loss (and we have), but the final numbers are still the final numbers.

 

[TommyD4207]

"Blueprint knockout" leads "Patriots SB win" 7-2 in that time.

2-1 in the last 3, and the 1 had Guards starting at Tackle.

Also, there were 'blueprints' knocked out along the way (2011 for example) before being knocked out.

I feel like it's possible they may have figured out 'the blueprint' in recent years, assuming they have the personnel healthy enough to do it.

 

[Ring 6]

"Blueprint" teams knocked out the Patriots in 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2015. The last non "Blueprint" team to defeat the Patriots in the playoffs was the 2006 Colts.

Teams that advance to those rounds if the playoffs often have good defenses.
If the “blueprint” is “have a good defense” we beat those teams often too.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy doesn't really have a point. There's a simple reality to dealing with the Patriots in the playoffs. You beat them with a defense that's built in a certain way. It's not 100%, but every other way has been 0% since the offensive retooling of 2007. "Blueprint knockout" leads "Patriots SB win" 7-2 in that time.

We can look to specifics in an attempt to get to the "why" of each loss (and we have), but the final numbers are still the final numbers.

Sure when you make up that having a good defense means it’s built in a certain way.
Blueprint implies that you have a scheme and style of play that they can’t overcome. Those defenses did not play the same schemes, the patriots schemes have evolved over 9 years, and the players have changed.

Jacksonville’s defense was built in the image of Seattle and Atlanta. How has that blueprint worked out?

 

[TommyD4207]

Sure when you make up that having a good defense means it’s built in a certain way.
Blueprint implies that you have a scheme and style of play that they can’t overcome. Those defenses did not play the same schemes, the patriots schemes have evolved over 9 years, and the players have changed.

Jacksonville’s defense was built in the image of Seattle and Atlanta. How has that blueprint worked out?

Overall, they've had better success than most. Lost two Super Bowls, but it certainly wasn't easy for the Patriots. It's 2-1 in the regular season as well, for that matter.

 

[Ring 6]

True, but I think Andy's point was that we've also overcome "Blueprint" teams in some of our wins, as well. The "Blueprint" might be the best way to beat us, but it's not guaranteed (which we already knew anyway). So, after all that, we're all right back to square one.

If by blueprint you mean a really good team with a strong defense could beat us the it’s a blueprint. That would also mean colonials and ranches have the same blueprints. I mean they are houses right?
Baltimore, the giants and Denver played very different defenses.
Baltimore and the jets shared a scheme however the game the jets beat us they totally abandoned that scheme and created one that went against their base philosophy.

 

[Ring 6]

Overall, they've had better success than most. Lost two Super Bowls, but it certainly wasn't easy for the Patriots. It's 2-1 in the regular season as well, for that matter.

Huh? We won both SBs. Some blueprint.

 

[Deus Irae]

2-1 in the last 3, and the 1 had Guards starting at Tackle.

Also, there were 'blueprints' knocked out along the way (2011 for example) before being knocked out.

I feel like it's possible they may have figured out 'the blueprint' in recent years, assuming they have the personnel healthy enough to do it.

The "Blueprint" will never be figured out, because it's just a common sense approach against a pocket QB. How do you offer yourself the best chance to defeat ANY pocket QB?

• Pressure without blitzing
• Throw receivers off route early, to give DL time to get to QB
• Keep the defense in coverage mode to make it more difficult for QB to find open player, and try to surprise him with novel coverages

What sets Brady apart (and used to generally set Peyton apart) is that most pocket QBs can be had by blitzing. To beat Manning with the blitz, you had to be timely and unconventional. To beat Brady with the blitz, you have to catch Brady on a bad day, or get lucky with a tipped ball, or something fluky like that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sure when you make up that having a good defense means it’s built in a certain way.

If by blueprint you mean a really good team with a strong defense could beat us the it’s a blueprint.

No, and you're being needlessly stubborn about a relative non-issue.

 

[TommyD4207]

Huh? We won both SBs. Some blueprint.

We won two Super Bowls, but it certainly was a struggle in both cases, both teams were completely gassed on defense at the end - perhaps its the fatal flaw of the Cover 3, but to not tip your cap to each of their defenses (or at the very least, Seattle's 2014) is sort of folly.

And Seattle's won both regular season games as well. I just said two posts above that I think the Patriots have figured out 'the blueprint', and it's messy and muddy, but they may just have figured it out.

 

[Ring 6]

Now we are calling the 2013 broncos record setting offense and 19/22 ranked defense the “blueprint”. Are we basing this on jersey color?

Baltimore was the blueprint when they beat us but not when they didn’t?

Very hard to follow the rules.

 

[Ring 6]

No, and you're being needlessly stubborn about a relative non-issue.

Yeah I’m the one being stubborn.

 

[Deus Irae]

Now we are calling the 2013 broncos record setting offense and 19/22 ranked defense the “blueprint”. Are we basing this on jersey color?

Baltimore was the blueprint when they beat us but not when they didn’t?

Very hard to follow the rules.

And now you've just gone into stupid posting.


Go get some lunch, Andy.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah I’m the one being stubborn.

Clearly

 

[Ring 6]

We won two Super Bowls, but it certainly was a struggle in both cases, both teams were completely gassed on defense at the end - perhaps its the fatal flaw of the Cover 3, but to not tip your cap to each of their defenses (or at the very least, Seattle's 2014) is sort of folly.

And Seattle's won both regular season games as well. I just said two posts above that I think the Patriots have figured out 'the blueprint', and it's messy and muddy, but they may just have figured it out.

Because there isn’t a blueprint.
Combining a bunch of different schemes and game plans and calling them a blueprint is inaccurate.
The blueprint is when we play playoff teams we win 3/4s of the games. When we play very good playoff teams we win about 2/3. The 1/3 - 1/4 that beat us had the blueprint of being a good team.

 

[nowayback]

Has anyone heard if TFB has spoke with JG ? about the jags? They must have I would think. BB with Shanahan?

 

[Ring 6]

And now you've just gone into stupid posting.


Go get some lunch, Andy.

So you are telling me the #1 offense, mediocre defense 2013 broncos are the blueprint and to suggest otherwise is stupid?
I didn’t realize jack del rio had the blueprint. Did he get it from the giants and leave it behind for wade Phillips?
Is there any coach or scheme that isn’t the blueprint?

Let’s see:
I guess soagnuolo created it
Then despite running totally different systems he sent it to Greg Matteson
Martinson sent it to rex Ryan who created a scheme that differed from his any team had attacked the patriots and that was still the blueprint. Rex went in to lose 75% of his remaining games against the patriots so I guess part of the blueprint is you forget it after you use it.
Rex then sent it back to giants for their New dc with a different scheme to use. The must forget rule applied here to as fewell went in to be torched by he patriots.
Then they sent it to dean pees who I guess didn’t use it then did ysdvit then didn’t any more? I’m getting a headache.

Pees then shipped it over to Denver, and jack del rio and his entirely different scheme, who by revisionist history were a defensive team that year.

Del rio after being fired gave wade Phillips and his totally different scheme the blueprint.
I guess he still has it?

So numerous coach’s who all have different philosophies and attack offenses very differently are all in on this blueprint sharing scheme.
I guess Pete Carroll and his tree were kicked out of the club.

 

[Nunchucks]

The "Blueprint" will never be figured out, because it's just a common sense approach against a pocket QB. How do you offer yourself the best chance to defeat ANY pocket QB?

• Pressure without blitzing
• Throw receivers off route early, to give DL time to get to QB
• Keep the defense in coverage mode to make it more difficult for QB to find open player, and try to surprise him with novel coverages

What sets Brady apart (and used to generally set Peyton apart) is that most pocket QBs can be had by blitzing. To beat Manning with the blitz, you had to be timely and unconventional. To beat Brady with the blitz, you have to catch Brady on a bad day, or get lucky with a tipped ball, or something fluky like that.

Know what breaks that "blueprint?" Dion faulking Lewis and the running game.

 

[Nunchucks]

All I hear is how the Jaguars can win this game. They will rush four, play man and keep the safeties deep.

Seems so easy....Nobody is talking about Dion Lewis. I suspect he may have a big game.

 

[Ring 6]

Has anyone heard if TFB has spoke with JG ? about the jags? They must have I would think. BB with Shanahan?

They study film and game plan. I seriously doubt they are calling other teams and asking them how to play.
Coaches aren’t picking sides in conference championships to call one team and try to help them out.
Do you suppose he is calling marone to tell him what he did in the SB?