Pats interested in Saints WR Brandin Cooks

[PatsFanInVa]

One thing I would agree with in this thread:

- people doing the logic and concluding that this move is not going to happen. I agree with an asterisk. My conclusion is that this conclusion is correct unless it's not by the time the ball's snapped next season.

One thing I would disagree with:

Whoever said "we can draft a guy like Cooks."

No we can't. We also can't "draft a guy like Brady," to take it to an absurd extreme. We can't even "draft a guy like Elandon Roberts." That's because there are zero players in the NFL draft that have played a snap in the NFL.

You take your best shot in the draft. Unlike most people on this board I think that the Pats have drafted well, and that BB has achieved good results through the combination of draft picks and free agency moves.

But no, you can't guarantee NFL competency - mere competency - with any given draft pick. The closest you get to such a guarantee is in spots 1-5 to 1-10, so it's pretty impressive that the Pats get good performance drafting in the high 20s to 32 range, in the years when they don't steal our picks.

You can strike out for a whole year, even if you're really good at the draft. I think we're decent not excellent, and I remember a few strikeouts. In that way, the fact that we build through the combo pack of FA and draft has really helped, given that they keep stealing our picks.

Also by the way, not bad early returns on the 2016 class - Brissett (3rd rd) contributed b/c Garoppolo didn't last a whole 4 games. Nothing stellar but the game wasn't "too big for him." He just played his role and showed maturity in knowing not to try to go past that and mess up too much. Elandon Roberts (6th) and Malcolm Mitchell (4), immediate contributions. Cyrus Jones (2) says rookie year was "hell," looked like hell on the field, and didn't play in the SB. LG Joe Thuney (3) made the all-rookie team and is now your starting NE LG for the foreseeable future... Valentine shows potential, basically more fit for backup duty than the main gig right now... but we'll see. Early returns show a LOT of good stuff from 2016, is the point (except Cyrus Jones really doesn't seem like he's headed for good things).

That said, 10 years ago, this same team drafted Laurence Maroney and Chad Jackson in 2006. (Low 1st, high 2nd).

It is such a crap shoot. Since we tend to weigh "intangibles" very heavily (vs. workout warriors), it becomes even more of a crapshoot, to get a "Patriots type player."

So yeah, you can kind of count on getting something under the tree, and you might want that nifty new bike, and find that the bike actually sucked but that new quadcopter is really really surprisingly fun and durable, or whatever metaphor you'd prefer. In fact, due to age, I almost typed "slot car set." Do they still make those?

The point is, you can't say "We need a player like _____ at position (X), let's draft one" and move forward with that as your plan.

You can say, "well he's fresh off a couple productive seasons at another team, he can probably do the job here." (with a FA)

My main response is, the Shmessys of the world got this right, and it probably stays that way, all the way to the regular season.

But "We can draft a guy like [significant contributor]" seems like a fundamental misunderstanding of the best use of the draft, especially if you never draft in the Top 10: The draft is for doing your best to get a pleasant surprise.

FA is for locking in a certain position with proven performance. Even that might not work out, but it's a higher percentage shot than the draft.

OTOH, you also go "WHOA check out how cool the quadcopter is!" a lot of the time (in the draft). Downside is, if you really needed a good bike.... you might have to save up spare cash and buy it yourself.

 

[luuked]

WR might be the LEAST most critical need for the Pats this off season. #32 might not get you an elite prospect, but it can get you a good one, some one with more long term value than a 2 year (at most) rental.

It's almost comical how people just assume that first round picks are automatically difference makers. You hit on really good players even in the first round if you are lucky at a rate of 50% especially when you draft so far down. If BB / Caserio think that Cooks fits well into our offense then he is worth the a #32 for two years at a pretty reasonable rate. Yes, you have him for a shorter time on cost control but at the same time you also have minimized the chance of looking at a bust. Especially given the extensive knowledge our staff should have due to the joint practices in the past.

 

[meatface]

Brandon Marshall for money or picks for Cooks. Ill take marshall

 

[XLIX]

Cooks is talented but I am hesitant about bringing in a guy who, in the past, has whined to the media after a team victory that he didn't get the ball enough. That's not a recipe for success here in NE.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

I got no reservations about giving up a first for a proven player that upgrades the team at his respective position, considering udfa's is where it's really at for BB in the draft.
Let TFB make the call(I'm sure he has some input)...You give him what he wants/needs to finish off his career here the way he deserves.

 

[BTTA]

As much as I DON'T want the Pats to make this trade, the fact is money is NOT going to be an issue in the short run. The Pats would have him under control for an average of $5MM/yr for the next 2 years.

So the money is pretty close to a wash, if the Pats aren't paying a #32, and instead are paying Cooks and a #74 or whatever it is.

NE does look OK at WR for next year

I wonder if that's as true as we want it to be. Perhaps there's more fragility or uncertainty about Edeleman and Amendola going forward, and the Pats want to start to rebuild now around Mitchell, Hogan, and Cooks or someone like him. This rumor has me wondering about that.

Also, the Pats seem to pursue players that give them trouble on the field.

 

[supafly]

Belichick, McDaniels and Brady have all discussed Tom's improved accuracy on the deep ball, which has supposedly been something that he worked on during this past offseason.

As I mentioned in another post, it's certainly possible that they are attempting to take advantage of this deeper threat aspect.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I hate giving away draft picks. Need another pass rusher and i don't know what will happen with hightower. They can free up more money by restructuring solder and amendola. It doesn't make sense to go after cooks. We don't know who will replace ryan if he leaves as well. I actually like this draft.

 

[Gumby]

After having had more time to mull it over, although I firmly believe BB does not value WR high enough to EVER do this trade as a first option (before the draft), I do think that Ken may have alluded to the true answer and there may be a small bit of fire yo this smoke (unlike my first thoughts that this is total bs media made up ****):

BB always does his homework, we know that. And he is always willing to wheel and deal on draft day, we know that too. It has been said by his deputies before that they had skeletons of deals discussed with teams ahead of time so they can quickly close deal when needed.

So I think they have their eyes on 1-3 D players (LB, DE, DT) like Ken suggested where the true value in rd 1 lies. but they aren't sure those players will still be there for them at 32 or a spot they feel they could jump to. So they could be discussing a FALL BACK PLAN with Saints (and maybe others) of what they could get for 32 if rd 1goes bad for Pats. Some minion on the Aints may have just misunderstood that it is a contingency offer or intentionally lied that it was a true offer and said they turned it down just to stoke up interest in Cooks.

Either way (BS story entirely or contingency planning) I don't believe this is a trade with true BB backing, but that just IMO.

 

[BelichickFan]

Bill may just be doing his buddy Payton a favor by showing interest - but to suggest that it may not be real is foolish. Edelman is a FA next year and likely on the back 9. Cooks, Hogan, Mitchell would be a good group going forward and Bill often goes after players who play well against his team - this time in practice.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

People who support this alleged move have not done their Research.

Turns out: There is this thing called The Salary Cap.

Turns out: 1st Round Picks are worth something.

Flushing 1st Rounders down the Toilet for Vets who're about to get paid $15 Million or so a Year is what Idiots do. Pay Cooks $15 Million a Year? Sure.

But dump a 1st Rounder in the Sewage to do so??

Stupid.

Cooks is 23 years old. He is younger than Malcolm Mitchell. And you are calling him a vet?

A 1st round pick for a young elite productive WR is a far better bargain than an unproven rookie who may be another Dominique Easley. With cooks, you know what you are getting.

 

[BelichickFan]

Cooks is 23 years old. He is younger than Malcolm Mitchell. And you are calling him a vet?

A 1st round pick for a young elite productive WR is a far better bargain than an unproven rookie who may be another Dominique Easley. With cooks, you know what you are getting.

The only issue is what it would take to sign him long term. That could be an issue. Other than that, there's no value issue with trading the last pick in round one for a proven semi stud who's 23 years old.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

The only issue is what it would take to sign him long term. That could be an issue. Other than that, there's no value issue with trading the last pick in round one for a proven semi stud who's 23 years old.

If BB makes this trade, I'm sure he has already had a plan in place to lock up cooks long term

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Make the trade BB I wanna see our offense tear up the league next year, and more importantly, I can't wait to go to other teams message boards and listen to haters cry about the patriots getting a superstar.

 

[Obidan]

This whole Cooks trade scenario was started by his agent Ryan Tollner who happens to be the agent for Carson Wentz and Marcus Mariota. Cooks changed to Tollner shortly after he voiced complaints about getting zero targets after the Rams game last November, a game the Saints won by 28.

Really, who complains about not getting touches when your team puts up 49 points against a solid Rams D? What is it about some young players who have early success turn into such prima donnas? SMH

Chris Mortenson broke this story, probably on a leak from Tollner. It's no coincidence that the original leak had only two teams interested were teams with QB's he represents.

The horse is out of the barn now. I think he will end up being traded, but just not where his agent wants.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Love Cooks, and what he'd bring to this team. A first, for a minimum of two years is well worth it as long as Brady is here.
Shocking others can't see that.

 

[Ross12]

The more I think about this, I can sort of make sense of it - with the #32 pick, you're really not guaranteed anything, so I can follow the line of thinking that it may be prudent to get a really good WR even if it's only for 2 years. It would seem to be the closest we would get to BB going "all in" on TB12's last few years - get a guy Tom can use right now versus a guy who might turn out to be good in 2 years.

However, I think if Cooks was traded here at that price, BB would likely have intentions of extending him somewhat quickly.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

The more I think about this, I can sort of make sense of it - with the #32 pick, you're really not guaranteed anything, so I can follow the line of thinking that it may be prudent to get a really good WR even if it's only for 2 years. It would seem to be the closest we would get to BB going "all in" on TB12's last few years - get a guy Tom can use right now versus a guy who might turn out to be good in 2 years.

However, I think if Cooks was traded here at that price, BB would likely have intentions of extending him somewhat quickly.

There's no guarantee at any spot in the draft. Plenty of 1st round busts out there. I get the whole "it's the cheapest most responsible way to go" but you don't turn down established talent for cheap potential...Not when you have the GOAT

He's been carrying this team long enough with "good enough" talent.
It's time to make life easier on him in his twilight years. Give him the damn weapons to unleash.

 

[shmessy]

The only issue is what it would take to sign him long term. That could be an issue. Other than that, there's no value issue with trading the last pick in round one for a proven semi stud who's 23 years old.

Except that we REALLY need to fill holes at CB, TE, 2 LBs and 2DEs. But yeah, other than that let's use up our only 1st rounder at this point on a WR.....

 

[patfanken]

So the money is pretty close to a wash, if the Pats aren't paying a #32, and instead are paying Cooks and a #74 or whatever it is.



I wonder if that's as true as we want it to be. Perhaps there's more fragility or uncertainty about Edeleman and Amendola going forward, and the Pats want to start to rebuild now around Mitchell, Hogan, and Cooks or someone like him. This rumor has me wondering about that.

Also, the Pats seem to pursue players that give them trouble on the field.

This all sounds reasonable if we didn't have greater needs on the other side of the ball. It's a LOT easier to find WR talent in the later rounds (as we have so often proven), than it is to find top end talent at DE, DT and LB.

Plus even when we DO find a talent like Flowers it often takes years to develop them. Consider Logan Ryan, he didn't come out of the box being the player he became. It took 4 years of coaching and development to get him to the point someone is going to pay 8-12MM/yr for him. (and I hope it's up at $8MM)