Pats @ Eagles all-22 rewatch thread

[TomPatriot]

I watched some. Bedard is right. The WRs got no separation with JE being the exception a few times. That’s a problem going forward. In Harry’s case, he needs to get used to being on the field so the game slows down for him. Sanu needs to get used to playing in this offense. They’ll get there eventually.

 

[luuked]

I watched some. Bedard is right. The WRs got no separation with JE being the exception a few times. That’s a problem going forward. In Harry’s case, he needs to get used to being on the field so the game slows down for him. Sanu needs to get used to playing in this offense. They’ll get there eventually.

I haven't watched the entire A22 yet but I have seen "NFL separation" a couple times where plays went nowhere. Mostly because right now you need a perfect storm of:

a) the OL holding up
b) Brady feeling comfortable and operating with an accelerated clock to be accurate
c) WR being open

and all three need to line up.

There were some plays where Sanu had a step crossing around sticks depth but Brady had no window to throw it. Other times White ran almost like a shallow post and would have been available if the pocket had stayed clean for a second more.

Then there were plays where the protection held up like when Sony was out in a pattern and Brady just led him way too far. Or the screen where double clutched for whatever reason which reduced the gain on the screen substantially.

I mean obviously WRs were not open on every play as we have seen in some of the end zone attempts where the OL held up and Brady held the ball for like 4 seconds and threw it away.

To me the biggest issue with the offense is that they are fighting battles at multiple fronts at the same time and need it all to align to have success.

That is why adding Wynn could mitigate the amount of times we find ourselves in a) and especially b).

 

[TomPatriot]

True.

They’ve also blown some reads at WR. But I think that will get better because Sanu and Harry are blowing them.

Wynn isn’t a savior but he’s basically a young Charlie Leno so he’s very good already. It takes a little pressure off Thuney to help the LT, which he doesn’t have to worry about. The old QB doesn’t have to worry about blindside pressure as much (that’s why LT is still more important than RT). That’s the most important thing about point b.

 

[luuked]

Wynn isn’t a savior but he’s basically a young Charlie Leno so he’s very good already.

I agree.

The offense also doesn't need a savior. What they need are small-to-medium improvements
in different places and those will compound into a big effect.

And having Wynn back is the first major domino to fall.

 

[PP2]

Good write up:

Film Review: What Went Wrong For the Patriots Offense and Where They Go From Here | CLNS Media

 

[oldrover]

Good write up:

Film Review: What Went Wrong For the Patriots Offense and Where They Go From Here | CLNS Media

Excellent write-up noting Brady's misses and in some cases misreads. Hopefully that's just a bad game... Harry's first game was not spectacular, but very promising from every aspect.

 

[luuked]

Good write up:

Film Review: What Went Wrong For the Patriots Offense and Where They Go From Here | CLNS Media

It goes pretty much Hand in Hand with Chatham's words on his postmortem podcast for the Athletic (which is free to listen to).

Also goes against the narrative that it was receivers consistently not getting separation. There are multiple options who have a step or at least leverage in most of the clips that Lazar put up. But it is a mixture of inaccurate throws (i.e. the one to Edelman on the screen that was set up for a huge gain), bad OL play and not reading the defense correctly (ignoring Edelman on the HOSS play on the hot route).

Do they win on every play ? No, no team has a situation like that. But you certainly can't say they are not getting open.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

Mason's best snap of the season.

The way he manhandled Jenkins certainly puts the exclamation point on it.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

From the CLNS media link above:

When Brady gets to the top of his drop, he likely knows its man coverage, and he has two receivers opening up downfield, Meyers on the corner route and Burkhead on the angle route.



As we roll the play, Meyers runs into a bubble of space, and Burkhead gets inside of Malcolm Jenkins over the middle. But right tackle Marcus Cannon gets beat, forcing a bad throw. Although pressure impacted Brady, that’s a play you’d like to see him make.
​

Certainly the pressure broke down, but Burkhead blew the execution, not Brady. He sat down on the has like it was a zone read, whereas Tom made the correct man read. If Burkhead keeps running, he makes the catch, and picks-up some yardage. The OL breakdown took away the even better read to Myers, who had his man thoroughly beat.

 

[PP2]

 

[luuked]

Certainly the pressure broke down, but Burkhead blew the execution, not Brady. He sat down on the has like it was a zone read, whereas Tom made the correct man read. If Burkhead keeps running, he makes the catch, and picks-up some yardage. The OL breakdown took away the even better read to Myers, who had his man thoroughly beat.

What are you talking about ?

On the video you posted Burkhead never stopped and Brady just led him way too much because the Eagles defender contacted him in the middle of the throwing motion.

 

[luuked]

Which means to me that either he didn't put enough zip on it or should have led Sanu more. It was still bad execution (or a bad decision if he thought he can fit it in).

 

[PP2]

What are you talking about ?

On the video you posted Burkhead never stopped and Brady just led him way too much because the Eagles defender contacted him in the middle of the throwing motion.

It's Burkhead's fault for not identifying man coverage- you always go full speed when you know it's man coverage- never half-ass.

 

[luuked]

It's Burkhead's fault for not identifying man coverage- you always go full speed when you know it's man coverage- never half-ass.

I completely disagree here. This is absurd keep in mind he is a RB. He clearly was expecting to get the pass right as he was breaking inside, never sat on anything but just put himself in a position to catch the ball. You can't expect him to catch a ball running at full speed like a WR might be able to do.

This is absolutely normal route running from a RB. And if protection had held up one more second he would have had it for a huge gain.

 

[Deus Irae]

Good write up:

Film Review: What Went Wrong For the Patriots Offense and Where They Go From Here | CLNS Media

Lazar is making too many meta-assumptions.

Look, we can see issues that we think are problems. But we can't see what the QB sees, when he sees it. And we can't know what the QB is supposed to be seeing, because we can't know the play. It's relatively easy to read receivers and running backs. It's more difficult to read TEs and OLs.

For example, Brady throws out to White down by the goal line. Most people call that a bad throw by Brady. But how many people know that we've seen that pass before, and that White has, in the past, made a much less lazy route out of it, with a sharper break to the sideline? Instead of just drifting towards coverage, White has used a harder cut in order to gain more separation and, at the same time, making himself an easier target to hit. Does that mean that White got it wrong and Brady's throw was fine? No, but it means that such might have been the case.

For example, Brady throws low to Sanu, and Sanu has to reach way down to catch the ball, resulting in him going to the ground after the catch. We hear/see people calling it a bad throw by Brady. But how many people (besides Romo) saw that leaving that pass up would have resulted in Sanu getting lit up by a defender? Does that mean that the throw was a great one? No, but it means that the throw wasn't as bad as many people initially thought.

And, lastly, I'll just note another poster, @pencilneckgeek, who seems to be saying much the same thing,

Pats @ Eagles all-22 rewatch thread

though he may be expressing it (for explanation purposes) a bit differently than I.

So, even while I think it's great that more people are doing these breakdowns, I also think we have to use their analysis as a jump point rather than an authoritative evaluation.

 

[captain stone]

...And having Wynn back is the first major domino to fall.

You mean the last major one...There's nobody else walking through that door, unfortunately.

 

[luuked]

You mean the last major one...There's nobody else walking through that door, unfortunately.

I wasn't talking personnel. I was talking effect on the offense. Wynn will stabilise the left side of the OL in the passing game and be at the very least a much better player in the screen game. This will have a ripple effect on other aspects.. a lot of the plays pointed out by Lazar & co were plays where if protection holds up just a second longer a negative play turns into a positive one.

I think those ripple effects will compound and we will see a pretty proficient offense in 1-2 weeks where also the play calling will reflect more confidence.

Obviously that is just my personal projection and anyone is free to disagree.

 

[Deus Irae]

Nick Underhill weighs in on the situation. Those of you who subscribe to The Athletic may want to read his take:

Inside the numbers: How Tom Brady is being forced into tight...

 

[PP2]

 

[PP2]

I completely disagree here. This is absurd keep in mind he is a RB. He clearly was expecting to get the pass right as he was breaking inside, never sat on anything but just put himself in a position to catch the ball. You can't expect him to catch a ball running at full speed like a WR might be able to do.

This is absolutely normal route running from a RB. And if protection had held up one more second he would have had it for a huge gain.

The rule on man vs. zone is very clear in the playbook. vs. zone, you sit, vs. man you break in or out "off defender" i.e., leverage away from him. You just don't let him catch up with you which was what Burkhead did. I think Burkhead was running snow option with the blitz pickup or chip (or at least that's what it was called in the 2004 playbook).