Patriots won't Mortgage picks to move up for a QB

[primetime]

"I don't consider Philip Rivers or Matt Ryan or Eli Manning a successful pick" is honestly the craziest thing I've ever read.

 

[Wozzy]

Theres a lot of good QB prospects and a lot of overrated fat at the top of the 1st round. If you knew you needed a QB and had a top three pick this would be the season to trade down, still get the guy you want and get some extra picks.

I could see the Pats moving up in the 2nd round or moving up one or two spots in the first round max. Theres not one QB worth reaching for, and theres really good developmental prospects who can be had from the 2nd on.

The organization a player goes to, matters as much or more than some inherent QB gene they might possess. The best prospects ever have gone to dumpster fires and been ruined; Andrew Luck, Sam Bradford, Jim Everett, Archie Manning... on a great team Joe Flacco can win a championship.

 

[Ring 6]

I see your sole criterion for a good quarterback pick is whether they make the Hall of Fame.

Good luck.

Not sure how you get that out of what I said.

 

[primetime]

Not sure how you get that out of what I said.

You said franchise QBs who have been Pro Bowlers for a decade and a half straight, including one with multiple Super Bowl rings and another with an NFL MVP, were wasted picks.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

You said franchise QBs who have been Pro Bowlers for a decade and a half straight, including one with multiple Super Bowl rings and another with an NFL MVP, were wasted picks.

To be fair he didn’t say wasted, he said they weren’t successful picks. Which is still crazy imo. With the high qb bust rate I’d say guys like Rivers and Ryan who still have helped their teams to multiple playoffs would be a success. And Cousins was a great value pick helping keep Washington afloat after RG3 fizzled out.

 

[rochrist]

The days of sitting a talented young QB on the bench for 3 years are over, it's 1/maybe 2 years now. We can also expect to have TB for 3 seasons including this one, I think at that point BB would pull the plug regardless if he's got the right replacement.

Therefore, we're 1 year too early to be investing a high choice in a QB. A pick over 60, sure - but not under that. You think BB wants to draft one in the top 23, have the guy be ready after 1 or 2 seasons, and then endure another JimmyG drama?

The problem with that is that the guy is under contract for FOUR years. Which means its perfectly fine if TB plays for 3 more seasons. I don't think he will personally, but even if he does, it fits perfectly well with a guy drafted this year.

 

[Off The Grid]

Actually, the best thing for the Pats to do regarding QB, is to simply play out Brady's career and never get a replacement until after Brady retires. Play one year with a mediocre free agent replacement and when we finish the year in last place we can go spend that first pick on the best QB in that draft.

Hey it worked for the Colts, didn't it?

Yep. That's what I've been saying all along:

Ride that Brady horse until the horse says "neigh."

01 ~ Above all, it eliminates all the "should we draft his replacement early?" stress.

02 ~ Honestly, wouldn't it be relaxing to "take a year off" as Fans? Let the rest of the league battle it out while we gather Draft Picks, plan the future, and bask in sweet nostalgia as Brady's incalculable Greatness finally starts to sink in over Whiskey & Beer?

03 ~ After a year of low expectations and giddy reflection, while Mad Bill trolls the Outer Pavilions for unusual talent and dedicated warriors, while trading everyone for a vast wealth of draft picks, we start loading up for Dynasty II ~ The Revenge!!

 

[Ring 6]

You said franchise QBs who have been Pro Bowlers for a decade and a half straight, including one with multiple Super Bowl rings and another with an NFL MVP, were wasted picks.

Which one has been a prowler for 15 straight years? By the way with the watered down probowl process where guys like Tyrod Taylor are pro bowlers I don’t think that a piece of an argument any longer.
Rivers is a stat compiler. He was handed the best team in the league and after not getting the to the Sb, after the first 2 years as a started he is 83-82. I would not be happy with a stay compiler who wins 4 playoff games in 14 years.
Ryan actually has been worth his pick, and shouldn’t have been included.
Eli Manning is a Sb champ despite himself.
His team has made the playoffs 6 times in 14 years, 4 being one and dones. His carrer record is 8 games over .500. He has completed less than 60% of his passes in his career and his team-int ratio is 339-228.
If we traded up to #1 and got that career I would be very disappointed. It would be much better to go through a few other and trying to find a really good one that have the next Eli.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Anyone know how good next year's QB class is??

Not as deep or top heavy but very good. Lock, Jones, Herbert, Fitzgerald, Thorson, Finley & Stanley are a few.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Not as deep or top heavy but very good. Lock, Jones, Herbert, Fitzgerald, Thorson, Finley & Stanley are a few.

You figure some of those guys might be available but it seems like every year you see teams draft QBs in the top 15.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

You figure some of those guys might be available but it seems like every year you see teams draft QBs in the top 15.

Absolutely, I don't grade on positional value but it's very real.

 

[carmelo15]

If Rosen is there at 9 I’m trading 23 and 31 easily. Is that reality mortgaging your picks we’d still have 2 2s, a 3rd, 2 6th, and a 7th.

Go get the franchise qb of the future

 

[Love The Drake]

The Jimmy G trade looms large.
I met a ex NFL player who has to ties to the Pats but he still trains current players and he said that Tom absolutely forced Bills hand to trade Jimmy.
Dont know if that is factual or not just what at least some current NFL players.

 

[mgteich]

The Jimmy G trade looms large.
I met a ex NFL player who has to ties to the Pats but he still trains current players and he said that Tom absolutely forced Bills hand to trade Jimmy.
Dont know if that is factual or not just what at least some current NFL players.

All right. Let's do this again. Let's try the options now knowing that JAG was able to get $25M a year with $74K guaranteed, and what Cousins was able to get. Which would you have done?

1) Trade JAG, keep Brady at $15M a year for two years, and sign prospects for the future, with Hoyer as an immediate backup.

This is my choice. The team could guarantee 2 years of Brady (without an extension) or 2 years of JAG (without a contract). IMHO, the choice was 2 years of one of them. There was little point in keeping both. With Brady, we have the possibility that he will play longer than 2 years. With JAG, 2 years was the limit without a new contract.

2) Franchise JAG in 2018 and probably again in 2019
If so, how would come up with the $20M of cap money? and $25M in 2019? One option for getting cap money would be to trade Brady.

3) Sign JAG to the kind of contract that JAG and Cousins got. If so, where would the cap money come from?

4) Sign JAG and trade Brady. Now, we would only need about $10M of additional cap room, plus the willingness to guarantee JAG $75M.

5) Sign JAG to a greatly discounted deal, and trade Brady when we were sure the JAG was the future. I thought that I would include this for those posters who seem to live in a fantasy world.
==============
I understand that everyone thinks that Belichick is a terrible negotiator and that he could have gotten more in trade, but that is another issue entirely.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Jimmy G trade looms large.
I met a ex NFL player who has to ties to the Pats but he still trains current players and he said that Tom absolutely forced Bills hand to trade Jimmy.
Dont know if that is factual or not just what at least some current NFL players.

How does a quarterback force a coach to trade another quarterback? Was it at gun point?

 

[mgteich]

How does a quarterback force a coach to trade another quarterback? Was it at gun point?

I don't know. I suppose he could have said that he was considering retirement. Perhaps, he might have threatened to sit out until at least Game 1.

Obviously, the team can't be forced to make a choice.

HOWEVER, I think that trading one of them made a lot a sense.

In the end, Brady is willing to play 2018 and 2019 for $15M a year. JAG would have cost much more.

 

[Love The Drake]

How does a quarterback force a coach to trade another quarterback? Was it at gun point?

Im just telling you what the ex player heard from current players maybe players were influenced by ESPNs article I dunno.
Sorry I brought it up he saw I was a Pats fan and we had a very good football conversation about the players in the draft a few he helped prepare.
He saw my Patriots wallpaper on my phone and it sparked deep convo.
This player I wont say his name out of respect for him but played in the AFC east at one point as well as 3 other teams so hes conmected to the NFL.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't know. I suppose he could have said that he was considering retirement. Perhaps, he might have threatened to sit out until at least Game 1.

Obviously, the team can't be forced to make a choice.

HOWEVER, I think that trading one of them made a lot a sense.

In the end, Brady is willing to play 2018 and 2019 for $15M a year. JAG would have cost much more.

If BB was all in on JAG, and it was Brady v. BB, Brady tossing out a "him or me" ultimatum would have resulted in Brady playing elsewhere last season. Now, if it was Kraft v. BB, and not Brady, then the ultimatum that reportedly wasn't made might have been made without saying and led to JAG moving on (this is the current line of speculation by much of the media). That, however, would not be the QB forcing the move. It would be the owner.

At which point I go back to the conversation allegedly had less than a year prior:

“So Lynch calls back. ‘Garoppolo’s off limits. Will you trade us Tom Brady?’ Belichick said, ‘What did you just ask me?’ [Lynch said,] ‘I’m asking would you trade us Tom Brady? You said Garoppolo’s off limits.’ He goes, ‘Did you just ask me if you’d trade Tom Brady … Did you just ask me if I’d trade the greatest quarterback of all time?'”

Report: Bill Belichick shot down John Lynch's request to trade for Tom Brady

and the question thus becomes "What the hell happened in those few months to make that no longer the start and stop of all discussion?".

 

[Love The Drake]

Who knows.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I don't know. I suppose he could have said that he was considering retirement. Perhaps, he might have threatened to sit out until at least Game 1.

Given that the Pats had Garoppolo, that "threat," last year, would have been like a five-year-old threatening to hold his breath until he gets what he wants.