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Patriots Training Camp - Wednesday August 3rd

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Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Some posters and the media were just trying to get too cute thinking Thornton wouldn't be able to adapt physically or mentally, therefore have to "red shirt" him. That theory just doesn't make much sense that a team would trade up in the 2nd round for a player they didn't envision would be able to make a difference this season for a 2nd year QB desperate for help on the outside.

It's only 6 days into camp, but Thornton is trending in the right direction and the media is already taking a mulligan on that.
I agree, trending in the right direction.

But N'Keal had all the talent and gifts in the world, so did Chad Jackson... nobody can predict what rookies will do.

If I said all rookies would fail, I'd be right a majority of the time, the average NFL career lasts three years... that's one year shy of a rookie contract.

I think Thornton looking as good as he does is more surprising than if he was struggling a little. I expected him to struggle some, he obviously is ahead of where anyone thought he would be.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
A prediction is a forecast or an estimation. Teams are predicting a player’s fit in their scheme or ability to be successful in the league when they even pull the trigger on a draft pick. Did you just word this poorly?
What does that have to do with posters or media members even thinking Thornton might take time to develop or be behind the multitude of quality vets ahead of him in the depth chart?
 

Zuma

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I agree, trending in the right direction.

But N'Keal had all the talent and gifts in the world, so did Chad Jackson... nobody can predict what rookies will do.

If I said all rookies would fail, I'd be right a majority of the time, the average NFL career lasts three years... that's one year shy of a rookie contract.

I think Thornton looking as good as he does is more surprising than if he was struggling a little. I expected him to struggle some, he obviously is ahead of where anyone thought he would be.
I wonder if Thornton would have struggled in the old offensive system only because its harder to learn. Is Mac struggling slightly because it's new for him or the complexity is shifted from WR's to QB's in this McVay oriented offense.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
I agree about Davis but I think he has the potential to be much better. If he makes the 53 is it because what he has done or because of what he might do?
If Davis makes the 53, pretty much if he's he's healthy, is because he's the only true Nose Tackle on the roster. He fills in for Godchaux 10-12 plays a game on short downs and goal line.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
But Wynn's a Tackle I think that guy was subbing at Guard.
Hambright has played guard in the NFL to date, but he's also 6'4" tall and has an okay wingspan, he can possibly work as a backup guard/tackle swingman.

I think between Dejarlais, Hambright and Russell they have a lot of quality interior depth, though it sounds like Russey may need some seasoning on the practice squad. A dark horse to make Wynn redundant is either Herron or because they want to move Onwenu to RT.

After Trent Brown, Onwenu has the longest arms and wingspan on the entire offensive line... longer than Wynn's by a lot.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Yeah but it's more McVay from what I understand and let me tell you something...I don't understand much.
This whole offensive system change nonsense is being blown entirely out of proportion.


The Patriots have always used a combination of zone and gap blocking... always, even if they're using a lot more zone now. The entire league is using more zone now.
 

TheRainMaker

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But N'Keal had all the talent and gifts in the world, so did Chad Jackson... nobody can predict what rookies will do.
Jackson yes, but not Harry as his speed or ability to separate was a major concern.

However, both of them were idiots. I don't recall hearing anything relevant good or bad from Harry until he finally made it on the field in 2019. But from what posters who attended training said they saw Jackson struggling from Day 1 not knowing where to line up, seeing Tom yelling at him and got the sense he was very immature. With all that said, his ACL tear wrecked his career as he said he couldn't cut after that.

Aside from all that, the point I was making was that no team is going to trade up for any player and not have plans to play him. Harry was a moron, but he was forced on the field.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
I wonder if Thornton would have struggled in the old offensive system only because its harder to learn. Is Mac struggling slightly because it's new for him or the complexity is shifted from WR's to QB's in this McVay oriented offense.
I hope them simplifying the offense works to the betterment of all the receivers, that being said Malcolm Mitchell picked the old system up over the course of his rookie season and got better and better.

I think Thornton is simply a better prospect than most gave him credit for, he was really strong at Baylor doing the same things he's doing in camp right now. Goal line prowess and vertical stretch plays...

I think this is more a case of fans, media and "draft experts" reading the room and getting it wrong... much like they did with Mac Jones and putting the majority of his college success on his weapons.

Draft value sounds really relevant and cool around the draft... year's later its something we laugh at as we count the Pro Bowls and rings.
 
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Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Jackson yes, but not Harry as his speed or ability to separate was a major concern.

However, both of them were idiots. I don't recall hearing anything relevant good or bad from Harry until he finally made it on the field in 2019. But from what posters have said on here, they saw Jackson struggling from Day 1 not knowing where to line up, seeing Tom yelling at him and got the sense he was very immature. With all that said, his ACL tear wrecked his career as he said he couldn't cut after that.

Aside from all that, the point I was making was that no team is going to trade up for any player and not have plans to play him. Harry was a moron, but he was forced on the field.
Deandre Hopkins doesn't get much separation, he's open even when he's not open. They're very similar athletes, so is AJ Brown...

Harry is soft and football dumb... unfortunately there's often no way to figure that out until you get a player into camp.

Thornton seems smart, tough and deceptively strong... I think that's why he will make it.
 
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Kontradiction

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What does that have to do with posters or media members even thinking Thornton might take time to develop or be behind the multitude of quality vets ahead of him in the depth chart?
It’s funny, because my first thought was to ask you what your response had to do with @TheRainMaker’s OP, but I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming that you worded your response poorly. At the end of the day, the team predicts Thornton to be an immediate fit in their scheme while SOME fans predicted a redshirt season.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
It’s funny, because my first thought was to ask you what your response had to do with @TheRainMaker’s OP, but I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming that you worded your response poorly. At the end of the day, the team predicts Thornton to be an immediate fit in their scheme while SOME fans predicted a redshirt season.
I think Thornton is proving himself a system fit. Everybody has to earn their roster spot. Nothing is given...

If he wasn't good enough he wouldn't be getting reps with the first team and would likely end up getting the Foxboro flu. Nixon last year looked lost in camp, now he looks improved and deserves some more run.
 

Kontradiction

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I think Thornton is proving himself a system fit. Everybody has to earn their roster spot. Nothing is given...

If he wasn't good enough he wouldn't be getting reps with the first team and would likely end up getting the Foxboro flu. Nixon last year looked lost in camp, now he looks improved and deserves some more run.
Yeah, I was very happy about the Thornton pick. Said as much in his welcome thread. I’m happy to hear he’s having a good start to camp, but it doesn’t mean much until he gets out there against live competition during the regular season. Harry put together some great camps as well and we all know what happened there.
 

TheRainMaker

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Deandre Hopkins doesn't get much separation, he's open even when he's not open.
Which was why he dropped in the draft. Dez Bryant, Kennan Allen, Allen Robinson, Anquan Boldin and Greg Jennings to name a few had those questions when getting drafted. I don't think anyone envisioned Harry to bomb the way he did.
 

Zuma

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Which was why he dropped in the draft. Dez Bryant, Kennan Allen, Allen Robinson, Anquan Boldin and Greg Jennings to name a few had those questions when getting drafted. I don't think anyone envisioned Harry to bomb the way he did.
Or he ran the wrong route..."Fields had three straight incompletions — two to Byron Pringle and he overthrew a wide open N’Keal Harry in the end zone."

 

TheRainMaker

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Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Yeah, I was very happy about the Thornton pick. Said as much in his welcome thread. I’m happy to hear he’s having a good start to camp, but it doesn’t mean much until he gets out there against live competition during the regular season. Harry put together some great camps as well and we all know what happened there.
In truth I don't watch college football, Thornton wasn't on my radar at all and I panned the pick the second he was taken.

But after a deep dive into his film, the first time I had seen it... he grew on me instantly. Since then watching film of him doing squats and dead lifts, listening to him in interviews... I think it's early, but also entirely possible they got a steal. The kid has a unique skillset and has a great attitude.
 

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