Patriots Minicamp 6-8-2022

[Wozzy]

What? Why are we going to individual Patsfans posters. Yeah I'm sure there were plenty of uninformed people out there saying Mac wasn't worth pick 15. Show me the consensus or even the media outliers that said he wasn't at least the 5th best QB in the draft.

Oh Jesus... do you know how long it took me to find the 2021 draft day thread?

Now I have to scour YouTube to find media members saying Mac wasn't the right guy... when we all know this was the case?

Watch this...

 

[Pats2000]

Oh Jesus... do you know how long it took me to find the 2021 draft day thread?

Now I have to scour YouTube to find media members saying Mac wasn't the right guy... when we all know this was the case?

There was criticism for sure, some of it founded, some of it unfounded. I'm sorry you're spending so long on this. I'm saying that the professional consensus was that he was at least the 5th best QB in the draft. I lean towards that he was the best, hands down.

There's always people who will day that any player was a reach. I'm saying overall the media agreed with him being at least #15. Maybe we are arguing different things here

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Nice post BGC.

Every team, FO/HC, have different ideas, requests for a franchise QB. So i dont think its about Mac being top 10 QB - whatever that even means since the top listings of various “experts“ are all over the place, then there's year to year etc.

Yea I was just speaking in general. I think you know it when you see it but yea we need him to be on par with the Allen's, Mahomes, Herbert's of the world if we're going by recent standards.

I do agree this is a key year for Mac to establish himself as NE “franchise“ QB - in terms of what that means for one person alone - BB.
BB's reserved offseason - keeping all giant future cap almost intact - probably speaks to that as well.

Huge year. Everyone talks about waiting 3 years but year 2 is actually the most important year for a QB in terms of development or seeing what you want to see. Usually you know pretty fast. Plus the offense is set up to rock. Say what you want about this staff but we've churned out QB's that keep getting paid. So everything is set up for him and we obviously already know he can play. So yea here's to a big year.

And even when he fully convinces BB - his “franchise“ status will be tested yearly as long as BB is here.

agreed - so far so good : )

Yup but I think the youth, inexperience is good for Bill. He gets to dive in, things are never dull and gets to see the results of his work.

 

[Wozzy]

There was criticism for sure, some of it founded, some of it unfounded. I'm sorry you're spending so long on this. I'm saying that the professional consensus was that he was at least the 5th best QB in the draft. I lean towards that he was the best, hands down.

There's always people who will day that any player was a reach. I'm saying overall the media agreed with him being at least #15. Maybe we are arguing different things here

The 5th QB in the 2022 draft was taken in the fourth round... it was Bailey Zappe. Many called him a reach as well, they should have taken Sam Howell who went in the fifth. There was nowhere near a consensus that the Pats should have taken Mac at 15, many "experts" had him graded in the second round or worse.

I think maybe you're afraid of my using the term "reach" because Cole Strange, Thornton... hell every pick BB made this draft was called a "reach" and very often when people do that they look silly in hindsight... like they do with Mac.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

There was criticism for sure, some of it founded, some of it unfounded. I'm sorry you're spending so long on this. I'm saying that the professional consensus was that he was at least the 5th best QB in the draft. I lean towards that he was the best, hands down.

There's always people who will day that any player was a reach. I'm saying overall the media agreed with him being at least #15. Maybe we are arguing different things here

The consensus board which is good at predicting where guys will go had him at 14. So yea, consensus, literally lol, had him top 15.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

The 5th QB in the 2022 draft was taken in the fourth round... it was Bailey Zappe. Many called him a reach as well, they should have taken Sam Howell who went in the fifth. There was nowhere near a consensus that the Pats should have taken Mac at 15, many "experts" had him graded in the second round or worse.

I think maybe you're afraid of my using the term "reach" because Cole Strange, Thornton... hell every pick BB made this draft was called a "reach" and very often when people do that they look silly in hindsight... like they do with Mac.

So just in terms of mock drafts. Mac was the most mocked player to one team, New England, since they started tracking these things. And the consensus had him at 14.

 

[Pats2000]

The 5th QB in the 2022 draft was taken in the fourth round... it was Bailey Zappe. Many called him a reach as well, they should have taken Sam Howell who went in the fifth. There was nowhere near a consensus that the Pats should have taken Mac at 15, many "experts" had him graded in the second round or worse.

I think maybe you're afraid of my using the term "reach" because Cole Strange, Thornton... hell every pick BB made this draft was called a "reach" and very often when people do that they look silly in hindsight... like they do with Mac.

There were 5 1st round talent QB's last year, there were not 5 first round talent QB's in the 2022 draft. Not sure what the comparison is you're trying to make here.

 

[Wozzy]

There were 5 1st round talent QB's last year, there were not 5 first round talent QB's in the 2022 draft. Not sure what the comparison is you're trying to make here.

Mac had plenty of detractors, now everybody thinks he’s great.

 

[Pats2000]

Mac had plenty of detractors, now everybody thinks he’s great.

I'm sure he did, but I still maintain consensus was that he was a top 5 QB in that draft and the first 4 went in the first 11 rounds

 

[venecol]

I found the game day thread, the "don't take Mac" thoughts start emerging around page 44, I'll take you there...

DRAFT DAY DISCUSSION - OFFICIAL 2021 NFL DRAFT - ROUND 1 - Discussion Thread

If the Pats really wanted Fields, they could have topped the deal that the Eagles gave Dallas. Bears gave up too much. If Fields panned out then those picks they traded don’t matter

www.patsfans.com

I read through that thread. Nobody called taking Mac at #15 a reach. The vast majority of posters were happy with the pick. Some posters preferred other QBs but even those were OK with the pick. A few posters wanted another player picked but were OK with Mac. Quite a few expected a trade back.

Conclusion: your take is FALSE.

 

[venecol]

Oh Jesus... do you know how long it took me to find the 2021 draft day thread?

Now I have to scour YouTube to find media members saying Mac wasn't the right guy... when we all know this was the case?

Watch this...

Another Fail. Those are comments after the draft once he began playing. I'm pretty sure most everyone here wanted Mac to improve his ball velocity, zip this offseason since it clearly needed to improve. That's not a diss just reality. It looks like he did just that from early accounts.

 

[Kasmir]

Mac had plenty of detractors, now everybody thinks he’s great.

Hardly everybody:

NFL Analyst Believes Mac Jones Is Among Worst QBs in AFC

ac Jones had the best rookie season of any quarterback from the 2021 draft class but Nick Wright believes the New England Patriots QB isn't that talented.

heavy.com

 

[venecol]

Hardly everybody:

NFL Analyst Believes Mac Jones Is Among Worst QBs in AFC

ac Jones had the best rookie season of any quarterback from the 2021 draft class but Nick Wright believes the New England Patriots QB isn't that talented.

heavy.com

Wright is a hater.

 

[jlu52]

Hardly everybody:

NFL Analyst Believes Mac Jones Is Among Worst QBs in AFC

ac Jones had the best rookie season of any quarterback from the 2021 draft class but Nick Wright believes the New England Patriots QB isn't that talented.

heavy.com

Calling Nick Wright a moron is insulting to morons. Nick's claim to fame is he'll do anything for clicks.

 

[Wozzy]

I read through that thread. Nobody called taking Mac at #15 a reach. The vast majority of posters were happy with the pick. Some posters preferred other QBs but even those were OK with the pick. A few posters wanted another player picked but were OK with Mac. Quite a few expected a trade back.

Conclusion: your take is FALSE.

What a load of BS… I didn’t call out posters by name but a large contingent called BB getting scooped by the Bears for Fields a complete failure and saying things like all hope was lost when Mac was picked… I suppose you skipped over those.

Here’s a sampling from the three pages after the Bears took Fields…

Fields was within reach if he's gone I hope we enjoy the 5 years of average cornerback play we'll get out of the CB we overdraft. Yes I'm salty.

Bill blew it, god ****ing damn it

Trade down and go get a QB later. Jones is a not a 1st round talent.

Patriots blow their future.

Guys we have cam Newton we are going places....smh bill. Lucky as hell he had brady

Mac Jones is Jarrett Stidham. 3rd rounder at best. We will have outsmarted ourselves if we take that guy

Mac Jones sucks

You okay, poster X? - Poster 1
Nope - poster 2
I feel ya. Let’s pray we’re wrong and Jones turns out to be the better prospect... if we even take him. - Poster 1

A 1, 4, and 5 is nothing if this man is a franchise quarterback. I will not forgive BB if Fields turns out to be good.

Sorry, i dont want Jones. Even if i dont want Cam either.

You must have missed those…. laughable.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Without Slater there were 5 WR's who contributed in 2021... on average they usually carry 5... without Slater.

I don't see them carrying 6 without including Slater, no matter how much the game has changed.

I'm referring to pre-FB times when they did not carry 5 WRs.

 

[venecol]

What a load of BS… I didn’t call out posters by name but a large contingent called BB getting scooped by the Bears for Fields a complete failure and saying things like all hope was lost when Mac was picked… I suppose you skipped over those.

Here’s a sampling from the three pages after the Bears took Fields…

Fields was within reach if he's gone I hope we enjoy the 5 years of average cornerback play we'll get out of the CB we overdraft. Yes I'm salty.

Bill blew it, god ****ing damn it

Trade down and go get a QB later. Jones is a not a 1st round talent.

Patriots blow their future.

Guys we have cam Newton we are going places....smh bill. Lucky as hell he had brady

Mac Jones is Jarrett Stidham. 3rd rounder at best. We will have outsmarted ourselves if we take that guy

Mac Jones sucks

You okay, poster X? - Poster 1
Nope - poster 2
I feel ya. Let’s pray we’re wrong and Jones turns out to be the better prospect... if we even take him. - Poster 1

A 1, 4, and 5 is nothing if this man is a franchise quarterback. I will not forgive BB if Fields turns out to be good.

Sorry, i dont want Jones. Even if i dont want Cam either.

You must have missed those…. laughable.

And before they picked Mac. Posters were nervous about what Bill would do at #15: trade back, pick another player, or some other team trading ahead to pick Mac.

After Mac was picked it was >90% elation. Not one poster said it was a reach. Whatever man, think what you want, but you're overblowing what actually happened.

 

[Wozzy]

I'm referring to pre-FB times when they did not carry 5 WRs.

Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, Chad Johnson, Tiquan Underwood, Taylor Price, Matthew Slater... here's their roster the year before James Develin joined the team. Six WR's if we don't count Slater. I can't recall a time in history where they only carried 4 WR's.

They generally rostered one more RB or one more OL who they used as the 6th lineman if they couldn't find 4 TE's. They might find a lot of utility in a player like Ty Monty who can play both WR and RB. Either way if Asiasi and Keene show us anything in preseason they will likely make the roster... if they don't perhaps they roll with three TE's.

 

[Wozzy]

And before they picked Mac. Posters were nervous about what Bill would do at #15: trade back, pick another player, or some other team trading ahead to pick Mac.

After Mac was picked it was >90% elation. Not one poster said it was a reach. Whatever man, think what you want, but you're overblowing what actually happened.

90%...?

You just stated above that posts I said existed weren't there... that it was a "total fail" on my part.

Then as easy as copy/paste I provided numerous hate posts from three pages on that thread with a link for all to see without breaking a sweat.

90% is a BS number... as is the BS notion that Mac had little to no detractors... go visit the Brady pages from back then if you want to read some real Mac hate.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, Chad Johnson, Tiquan Underwood, Taylor Price, Matthew Slater... here's their roster the year before James Develin joined the team. Six WR's if we don't count Slater. I can't recall a time in history where they only carried 4 WR's.

They generally rostered one more RB or one more OL who they used as the 6th lineman if they couldn't find 4 TE's. They might find a lot of utility in a player like Ty Monty who can play both WR and RB. Either way if Asiasi and Keene show us anything in preseason they will likely make the roster... if they don't perhaps they roll with three TE's.

2012 was WW, Lloyd, JE and Branch. They carried 4 TEs in Gronk, AH, Hoo and Fells. Shiancoe was on b/c of Gronk being hurt

Develin played 1 game.

Point is they will carry only 4 WRs not including Slater.