Patriots Hall of Fame Finalists - Edelman, Mankins & Vinatieri (Vinatieri vs Edelman)

[PP2]

He was an important factor in those wins, but he's only as good as the offense putting him in position to make those kicks. Also, Adam wasn't a very good long distance kicker, so he needed to be put in favorable positions. And regarding the Rams game, had Ty Law not ran back an INT for a TD, they aren't winning that game. He also missed an easy field goal early vs Carolina and got another one blocked.

Saying he "single-handedly" won the game is stretching it. He did his job when called upon when the team needed it most, but they don't teleport and just kick the field goal.

I am not disagreeing that everyone did their part and contributed to getting the game to the point where Adam had a chance, on both occasions.

But the MVP can only go to one person. Do you award it to the person who got you there or the person who won it for you?

One could argue that the LS and the holder also did their part by not failing at their tasks, but, IMO, it's the very last act that counts. Without this last act, everything preceding it would have been rendered a futile effort.

 

[signbabybrady]

I am not disagreeing that everyone did their part and contributed to getting the game to the point where Adam had a chance, on both occasions.

But the MVP can only go to one person. Do you award it to the person who got you there or the person who won it for you?

One could argue that the LS and the holder also did their part by not failing at their tasks, but, IMO, it's the very last act that counts. Without this last act, everything preceding it would have been rendered a futile effort.

So give credit to Lonnie Paxton for the snow angel in a dome

 

[Patriot Missile]

I'm guessing Bill didn't pay him for a few reasons being he was 34, didn't have a strong leg, the offense was less reliant on him and he was a shaky kicker overall. Bill hit big with Gostkowski who was actually the better kicker. In fact, he blows Adam out of the water statistically.

Going to the Colts was irritating, but he was in a good situation with the opportunity to be with a contender while playing half the season in a dome.

I agree, I can see where my post alludes to it being egregious that BB didn’t pony up and that definitely came out wrong on my post. I don’t fault Bill not paying AV. Just Wille, Seymour and Law.

 

[upstater1]

Gotta be Edelman. Vinatieri might also deserve it for legendary play but he left for the Colts and had a long career there.

Edelman left his heart, soul and body on the field.

He did much more for us than Vinatieri.

As for Mankins, the Patriots haven't really had too many great guards over the years. A lot of good ones. But after Hannah, the only one that gives Mankins a run at all is Sam Adams, and Adams is really only notable for plowing huge holes for the Patriots record setting running game.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Gotta be Edelman. Vinatieri might also deserve it for legendary play but he left for the Colts and had a long career there.

Edelman left his heart, soul and body on the field.

He did much more for us than Vinatieri.

Leaving the team should not be an impediment to induction. Most of the recent HoFers played for other teams after the NEP.

No question JE11 gave everything he had but to say he did "more" than AV is bit subjective.

 

[upstater1]

Leaving the team should not be an impediment to induction. Most of the recent HoFers played for other teams after the NEP.

No question JE11 gave everything he had but to say he did "more" than AV is bit subjective.

AV is likely going into the HOF eventually as a Colt. He has said he identifies more as a Colt than a Patriot (after his retirement) and that his family for the most part only remembers his Colts career. They are Colts fans.

This isn't Willie McGinest or Vince Wilfork finishing their careers elsewhere.

This is Vinatieri playing 14 seasons for the Colts.

I still think Edelman contributed more not only as an every down player, but as a Super Bowl MVP and a key cog in 3 Super Bowl winning seasons.

He had 26, 21 and 26 receptions in those seasons. Averaged over 100 receptions per game.

We don't win 3 Super Bowls without Edelman.

Same cannot be said about Vinatieri. Actually Vinatieri was only absolutely required for 1.

 

[RobertWeathers]

AV is likely going into the HOF eventually as a Colt. He has said he identifies more as a Colt than a Patriot (after his retirement) and that his family for the most part only remembers his Colts career. They are Colts fans.

This isn't Willie McGinest or Vince Wilfork finishing their careers elsewhere.

This is Vinatieri playing 14 seasons for the Colts.

I still think Edelman contributed more not only as an every down player, but as a Super Bowl MVP and a key cog in 3 Super Bowl winning seasons.

He had 26, 21 and 26 receptions in those seasons. Averaged over 100 receptions per game.

We don't win 3 Super Bowls without Edelman.

Same cannot be said about Vinatieri. Actually Vinatieri was only absolutely required for 1.

I don't think it matters where or how many years AV played with the Colts.

He played 10 years here. Hes the franchise's 2nd all time leading scorer.

He has two game winning SB kicks. Add the Snow Bowl. Add the 5 FGs vs Indy in the 03 AFCCG and countless other big kicks. BB said Adam was their best player on SB teams.

Jules is very worthy but so is Adam just as much. Don't think he deserves to be locked out because the team didn't want to resign him.

 

[upstater1]

I don't think it matters where or how many years AV played with the Colts.

He played 10 years here. Hes the franchise's 2nd all time leading scorer.

He has two game winning SB kicks. Add the Snow Bowl. Add the 5 FGs vs Indy in the 03 AFCCG and countless other big kicks. BB said Adam was their best player on SB teams.

Jules is very worthy but so is Adam just as much. Don't think he deserves to be locked out because the team didn't want to resign him.

I never said he should be locked out. I said Edelman is a lot more deserving.

Look at the playoff stats.

You're also giving Vinatieri credit for a SB winning kick that was only a winner because he missed 2 chip shots earlier.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I never said he should be locked out. I said Edelman is a lot more deserving.

Look at the playoff stats.

I never said JE wasn't deserving.

You're also giving Vinatieri credit for a SB winning kick that was only a winner because he missed 2 chip shots earlier.

Wow....when a game is tied, and a FG wins it as time expires...that is called a Game Winning Kick.

While you are trying to find arguments against AV, JE has 3 fumbles in the playoffs. He could have lost them the game.

You clearly don't want AV in the NE HOF.

 

[upstater1]

I never said JE wasn't deserving.

Wow....when a game is tied, and a FG wins it as time expires...that is called a Game Winning Kick.

While you are trying to find arguments against AV, JE has 3 fumbles in the playoffs. He could have lost them the game.

You clearly don't want AV in the NE HOF.

What a ******** response.

You know I never said that.

You're such a dishonest poster.

Enough of this

 

[RobertWeathers]

What a ******** response.

You know I never said that.

You're such a dishonest poster.

Enough of this

upstater1 said:
You're also giving Vinatieri credit for a SB winning kick that was only a winner because he missed 2 chip shots earlier.

Good. Saying AV didn't make a game -winning kick when he did is equal ********.

 

[upstater1]

Good. Saying AV didn't make a game -winning kick when he did is equal ********.

You do nothing but lie

 

[RobertWeathers]

You do nothing but lie

I lied about nothing.

Next time don't make me call you out when you say a kicker didn't win a game when he did.

 

[upstater1]

I lied about nothing.

Next time don't make me call you out when you say a kicker didn't win a game when he did.

BS once again.

You do nothing but lie.

Put the quote up but you're too chickenshit.

BTW Edelman laps Vinatieri

 

[RobertWeathers]

BS once again.

You do nothing but lie.

Put the quote up but you're too chickenshit.

BTW Edelman laps Vinatieri

Nothing chickenshit about me...

The quote is up there. Clearly you didn't read it.

I guess self-accountability is an issue with you.

 

[upstater1]

Nothing chickenshit about me...

The quote is up there. Clearly you didn't read it.

I guess self-accountability is an issue with you.

You twist or lie.

I didn't write what you said I did. The fact that you refuse to quote the actual quote shows the level of your dishonesty

Anyone reading this thread understands what I wrote. What I wrote is actually a FACT

 

[RobertWeathers]

You twist or lie.

I didn't write what you said I did. The fact that you refuse to quote the actual quote shows the level of your dishonesty

Anyone reading this thread understands what I wrote. What I wrote is actually a FACT

************ i cut n pasted it. You wrote it. Own it.

 

[Ring 6]

What happened to the Edelman thread?


It was a good active conversation and seems to have disappeared???

 

[reflexblue]

It was a good active conversation and seems to have disappeared???

I deleted it. The thread was about edelmans reaction to watching OTAs, not about whether edelman or venatierie deserves to be in the PHOF first. Towards the end i asked posters to stop hijacking the original intent of the thread, as did others, I got blown off. If you want to discuss who deserves to be inducted first start your own thread.

 

[TheRainMaker]

It got hijacked because there was no explanation of what the reaction from Edelman was.