Patriots GM Search

[Grogan14]

That makes NO sense. They need to hire a gm now to go over scouting reports and set themselves up for the FA and the draft. I can't believe this is true unless groh or wolf are already working as GM.

Disappointing but ominously this indicates that Kraft(s) have a lot of confidence in Groh and Wolf...and that one of them may get the job.

 

[RIpats88]

The greatest dynasty in the history of the sport had a process.
Some teams think “the nerds” are the new way to build a football team.
No one has proven this.

Arguably the downturn in New England started with Kraft taking authority away from belichick.

the process clearly doesn't work anymore. and has been on the downturn for a lot longer than 2019. not drafting a pro-bowl skill player since 2010 or re-signing a player you drafted in the first round since 2013 is not a good record.

theres a reason the roster was on the downturn in 2018 and collapsed in 2019. and the seeds were sewn years before.

unless you are totally happy with the roster management/drafting that has brought us to 4-13. also you cant build a roster the same way you did when you had Tom Brady.

 

[Ring 6]

Allegedly..

Kraft is the GM. Kraft has been interfering in the operation of the team and will continue. Why do you think he hired the least experienced HC in NFL history (other than the interim Jeff Saturday joke) who will simply take orders because he has zero credibility to object?

 

[Grogan14]

They need some senior very experienced guys in the building ASAP after the Mayo hire.

 

[Ross12]

If the Schefter report is true, it basically tells you that Kraft feels that the personnel and scouting department were doing great work and advocating for excellent selections, but Bill was overriding them and taking guys he wanted instead. Kraft would have seen it happening himself every year in the draft room.

By removing Bill and maintaining the current staff, the selections they would have preferred to make will actually get made.

 

[RIpats88]

If the Schefter report is true, it basically tells you that Kraft feels that the personnel and scouting department were doing great work and advocating for excellent selections, but Bill was overriding them and taking guys he wanted instead. Kraft would have seen it happening himself every year in the draft room.

By removing Bill and maintaining the current staff, the selections they would have preferred to make will actually get made.

we know its at least partially true from the reporting about the Harry draft. Why did guys like caserio leave? I doubt it was just for the title

i also hope the approach in free agency changes. you cant just sign jags off the scrap heap and offer players insulting prove it deals full of incentives if they want to come here. Deandre hopkins put up a 1000 yard 7td season. and we offered him a prove it deal as if Brady was the QB that wasn't even close to Tennesee's

 

[Rob0729]

The greatest dynasty in the history of the sport had a process.
Some teams think “the nerds” are the new way to build a football team.
No one has proven this.

Arguably the downturn in New England started with Kraft taking authority away from belichick.

There are no reports of Kraft influencing the draft. Those failures are on Belichick. And Kraft let Belichick make Patricia the OC. Kraft wasn't responsible for that failure either.

And even during the great dynasty years, the phrase "Belichick the head coach covered for mistakes of Belichick the GM" many times. Belichick had many flaws at building a roster during the dynasty years. He was better at covering for those mistakes and Brady covered mistakes too. Belichick doesn't have Brady. And he doesn't cover for his personnel mistakes like he used to.

And currently the most successful teams in putting together top to bottom rosters rely on the "nerds". That seems like pretty strong evidence that their way works.

But unless you want to add something new, I am not going to hijack the thread with this back and forth. I will let you have the last word.

 

[Ross12]

The question for me is who runs free agency in March? Who is signing players?

 

[Ring 6]

the process clearly doesn't work anymore. and has been on the downturn for a lot longer than 2019. not drafting a pro-bowl skill player since 2010 or re-signing a player you drafted in the first round since 2013 is not a good record.

theres a reason the roster was on the downturn in 2018 and collapsed in 2019. and the seeds were sewn years before.

unless you are totally happy with the roster management/drafting that has brought us to 4-13. also you cant build a roster the same way you did when you had Tom Brady.

In 2018 the win their 3rd SB in 5 years while advancing as far as the AFCCG for the 8th straight year.
They made the playoffs in 2019 and 2021 (and would have in 2020 without the opt outs)). Kraft started meddling in 2022 and here we are.
When your HC wants to trade the Qb, the owner doesn’t let him and you get the worst QB playing the NFL and go 4-13 that record is on the owner.

 

[Rob0729]

If the Schefter report is true, it basically tells you that Kraft feels that the personnel and scouting department were doing great work and advocating for excellent selections, but Bill was overriding them and taking guys he wanted instead. Kraft would have seen it happening himself every year in the draft room.

By removing Bill and maintaining the current staff, the selections they would have preferred to make will actually get made.

According to Breer in the audio I posted a link to, Breer believes Jonathan believes in a more analytics approach to scouting.

If true, they may just think it is too late to build that infrastructure for this year's draft and free agency and are willing to build for next year. I think it is a mistake if it is the way of thinking.

 

[Ring 6]

There are no reports of Kraft influencing the draft. Those failures are on Belichick. And Kraft let Belichick make Patricia the OC. Kraft wasn't responsible for that failure either.

And even during the great dynasty years, the phrase "Belichick the head coach covered for mistakes of Belichick the GM" many times. Belichick had many flaws at building a roster during the dynasty years. He was better at covering for those mistakes and Brady covered mistakes too. Belichick doesn't have Brady. And he doesn't cover for his personnel mistakes like he used to.

And currently the most successful teams in putting together top to bottom rosters rely on the "nerds". That seems like pretty strong evidence that their way works.

But unless you want to add something new, I am not going to hijack the thread with this back and forth. I will let you have the last word.

********. Kraft publicly criticized the draft and said “ I hope we change how we do it”. The next draft was ENTIRELY out of character with belichick drafts.

Catch phrases from people who know nothing are meaningless to me.

There is absolutely zero evidence that “the most successful teams are relying on the nerds”

 

[ScottishPatriots]

I dont necessarily disagree. but we have had reporting that Bill over-ruled his scouts when drafting harry over deebo/aj brown. I mean caserio left largely because he felt he was being over-ruled by Bill and wanted the full GM Title and autonomy.

make no mistake. Bill was the final say.

Yeah that's just talk and blame shifting, every bad pick is someone elses fault.

Now we actually get to see the results.

 

[Ross12]

 

[Ring 6]

If the Schefter report is true, it basically tells you that Kraft feels that the personnel and scouting department were doing great work and advocating for excellent selections, but Bill was overriding them and taking guys he wanted instead. Kraft would have seen it happening himself every year in the draft room.

By removing Bill and maintaining the current staff, the selections they would have preferred to make will actually get made.

Where did Schefter say that?

 

[RIpats88]

In 2018 the win their 3rd SB in 5 years while advancing as far as the AFCCG for the 8th straight year.
They made the playoffs in 2019 and 2021 (and would have in 2020 without the opt outs)). Kraft started meddling in 2022 and here we are.
When your HC wants to trade the Qb, the owner doesn’t let him and you get the worst QB playing the NFL and go 4-13 that record is on the owner.

now you are just making stuff up out of your @$$. and alot of revisionist history.

the 2018 team was not that good. brady struggled all year. but they switched to a run first team and rode their defense. with Brady operating as a game manager and making timely plays to win. IT was pretty clear that teams talent was on the downswing.

2019 roster was pure garbage. Brady threw 25td's and we got hosed in the wildcard round throwing to sanu/watson. thats good team building?

theres no proof Kraft made Bill keep Mac Jones. and as you see the results werent much better with crappy zappe. Kraft had to step in and meddle after Bill blew the 2022 season by hiring Matt patricia/judge instead of a real OC.

if you want to blame 2022 and 2023 on anyone. its Bill and the uncharacteristic decision to not invest in his offense/whiff on all the picks. and then not hire a real OC. I dont think people realize how unprecedented it is to make a DC/Special teams coach your OC. theres not a single other team thats done it....because they know its a horrible idea.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah that's just talk and blame shifting, every bad pick is someone elses fault.

Now we actually get to see the results.

This is just some of the worst garbage that gets spewed.
Scouts don’t make draft picks. Scouts give reports on players.
Whoever makes the decision takes those reports into consideration.
There are not a group of scouts that each evaluate all of the players and give combined decisions about who to draft.
At best, the guy who was responsible for scouting WRs had other players rated higher. There is virtually never a unanimous agreement about any player. Many projections had harry going right where he went. Something like 40% of draft picks work out.

 

[RIpats88]

Yeah that's just talk and blame shifting, every bad pick is someone elses fault.

Now we actually get to see the results.

you don't believe Bill had the final say? the currans/media types were all wrong?

 

[Joey007]

If the Schefter report is true, it basically tells you that Kraft feels that the personnel and scouting department were doing great work and advocating for excellent selections, but Bill was overriding them and taking guys he wanted instead. Kraft would have seen it happening himself every year in the draft room.

By removing Bill and maintaining the current staff, the selections they would have preferred to make will actually get made.

I just know that Eliot Wolf comes from the Green Bay tree.

Green Bay is like the NFC version on the Steelers, they do know how to draft.

 

[Rob0729]

Kraft is the GM. Kraft has been interfering in the operation of the team and will continue. Why do you think he hired the least experienced HC in NFL history (other than the interim Jeff Saturday joke) who will simply take orders because he has zero credibility to object?

John Harbaugh had arguably less experience than Mayo. He was a special teams coordinator, but never more than a defensive position coach. And he didn't play the game.

Dan Campbell was never more than a position coach.

Mike Tomlin was only a defensive coordinator for one year before he became a head coach.

Sean McVay was only only coaching in the NFL for five years before he got his head coaching duties.

There are a lot of successful head coaches without much experience before they got the position.

And I tend to doubt Jerod Mayo is going to be a Kraft Yes Man. The guy has been a leader pretty much since he was drafted.

 

[RIpats88]

This is just some of the worst garbage that gets spewed.
Scouts don’t make draft picks. Scouts give reports on players.
Whoever makes the decision takes those reports into consideration.
There are not a group of scouts that each evaluate all of the players and give combined decisions about who to draft.
At best, the guy who was responsible for scouting WRs had other players rated higher. There is virtually never a unanimous agreement about any player. Many projections had harry going right where he went. Something like 40% of draft picks work out.

unless the media types are lying. the scouts wanted aj brown/deebo and Bill picked harry instead....no one is saying the scouts pick the players.

they are saying Bill picked the wrong ones. unless you think taking special teams players in the 2nd round etc. were all Scouts giving Bill bad information.