Patriots / Brady Discussion

[Oswlek]

Lets use Chatham's words. If we really are what some of the misinformed people would call a bend but dont break defense that exchanges TDs for FGs then we would be a clear number 1 in FG attempts allowed. Especially with those yardage stats.

However, the disconnect between points allowed & FGs attempts allowed vs. yardage allowed essentially just emphasizes that BB/MP just value the early downs in opposite territory less than those after midfield. Like Chatham says they are using more resources early to prevent the big play and then once the opponents gets into scoring range the approach changes up and more pressure is dialed up.

I know, I listened to the pod. I just was wondering whether there is a disparity between ordinal ranking and real numbers, and whether a few extra attempts might move NE closer to the top than you might expect.

I also don't think it is fair to say NE would be a clear #1 if they are a BBDB, since there are clearly other defenses that are just bad which would be higher anyway.

Personally, I find his arguments about asset usage to be far more compelling that the FG or points allowed comps.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't really agree. NE's 2010 D was the best D in the NFL at creating turnovers. They had an uncanny knack for doing it, especially in the red zone. They were super young and learning 0n the fly, and the Safety spot was a bit of wild card. I don't disagree there, but a lot of the younger players played well. McCourty, Spikes, Chung's 1st year getting a lot of snaps, etc.

Nothing stopped NE from dropping 45 points on the Jets a few weeks earlier.

The problem with that game was a paranoia of not scoring a lot early and throwing too much in the process. Brady's horrendous INT after they were steamrolling down the field, really hurt, but the D held to force a FG miss in the other direction.

Add in Crumpler's TD drop, and a 14-0 score was all for not.

Then, the fake punt play that was botched. It was a series of bad plays and lack of execution that put the defense's back against the wall vs a team that played loose like they had nothing to lose.

Sure, the D could have risen up and created a turnover or two, but give Sanchez credit for not turning into Sanchez for those 3 hours.

Bill O'Brien and Brady panicked a bit and Brady looked like a deer in the headlights, literally for the first time in his career. The bad habit of subbing the RBs on and off, which gives the the opponent an easy tell, was also rearing its ugly head as it has in past seasons. This little problem has been around for years, but now with a slew of RBs you don't have to sub on and off to fill a specific need, it doesn't tell the defense (as much in the past), what the play is.

They used too much Woodhead, subbing him on and off. I can still see DeVito cheating so well and blasting by Mankins, guessing the snap counts so well. That's on Brady and/or O'Brien/BB to get a feel for why the Jets front was playing so well.

I would say NE's 2010 D, at times starting 4 rookies on the front end of a rebuild, had very little to do with losing to the Jets. The offense under-performed, which has been the same pattern we've seen with the Super Bowl losses and other playoff losses.

Everything about the game you say is accurate.

I'm not sure what I said you are disagreeing with? They forced a ton of TOs in the reg season and when the needed to in this game they didn't. In that game when it came to 3rd down and red zone they failed b/c they were not stout. They had to use Woody b/c they flooded the middle of the field w 7/8 in coverage/zone blitz. When they did that Brady was frustrated and tried to do too much and saw ghosts in the process. Its pretty cut n dry what the weaknesses of that team were.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Of course we were reshaping the backbone of the defense and that is why 2010, 2011 were among the best coaching jobs BB & co have done.

I completely agree with you and the other person as well.

If Brady avoids one blunder in SB 46 (Safety which was avoidable, the INT on 1st down in Giants territory to a hobbled Gronk on an underthrown ball, the high throw to a wide open Welker off his back foot, etc), BB's coaching job that year would have been the best ever for a SB winning coach.

They would have allowed 13 points on D which would have been incredible for that ragtag rebuilding D off a Lockout with no mini camp or summer camp to build from.

The D could have done some things better like fall on one of the 2 fumbles they caused or Nink not jumping offsides on Moore's INT, but the offense under-performed when comparing it to the defense and its ceiling.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Everything about the game you say is accurate.

I'm not sure what I said you are disagreeing with? They forced a ton of TOs in the reg season and when the needed to in this game they didn't. In that game when it came to 3rd down and red zone they failed b/c they were not stout. They had to use Woody b/c they flooded the middle of the field w 7/8 in coverage/zone blitz. When they did that Brady was frustrated and tried to do too much and saw ghosts in the process. Its pretty cut n dry what the weaknesses of that team were.

I disagree with you saying the D was crappy all year. I just don't agree. McCourty had a Pro Bowl year at CB, Spikes came in and helpe, etc. Leigh Bodden was about to become a very good consistent player until a back injury ended his career. I am just saying, the D was not the problem in 2010.

They actually were the hottest D in December that year. People just only remember them not bailing Brady and the offense out of a bad offensive performance vs the Jets.

They had plenty of weapons on the outside, whether it be Branch, Hernandez if they wanted him out there, Gronk, etc. They probably should have promoted Edelman to the Z earlier in his career than BB did, yes. But, the offense was loaded and balanced.

The pattern I've seen is this:

Whether it be McDaniels or O'Brien (note how each coordinator appears to be the same guy), they panic as if, if they don't score 14 points inthe 1st qtr, they try to chase points they think they should have gotten by going finesse. Once the opponent sniffs that out, they start subbing the RBs on and off based on each's skill sets, Brady stands in the shotgun like a statue and the defenses can just scheme knowing that's where he will be.

This year? Note the West Coast style of plays they've been running. Brady is under Center more and more, channeling his inner Montana circa 1984, with Lewis acting like Wendell Tyler and Burkhead channeling his inner Roger Craig.

Now, they just need to improve in the red zone and I think they will with guys healthier now.

 

[Angelpats]

Do you think the underestimated the NYJ?

Fortunately, I never had the chance to watch that game. I don’t know what happened except that we lost after a great season, and it’s always hard for me to get the incentive to find that game and watch us lose. Was it really just a horrible game by us or did the jets play exceptional? I think Sanchez was the qb right?

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

We're back to faulting Brady for hitting Welker in the hands.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

We're back to faulting Brady for hitting Welker in the hands.

I think Welker should have caught it, but you have to at least admit Brady throwing off his back foot, caused that ball to go high. He was wide open, dude.

You and I could have hit that on a line and Welker may have even scored. I didn't want him to, as bleeding clock there likely would have won the game.

This is not meant to bash or re-hash, but at least be fair and accurate about what happened.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

I hope hogan's ready to go. He will need to kick rust but he was a big part of this offense. Maybe Britt has picked up the offense a lil as well. We will see.

 

[Ring 6]

I think Welker should have caught it, but you have to at least admit Brady throwing off his back foot, caused that ball to go high. He was wide open, dude.

You and I could have hit that on a line and Welker may have even scored. I didn't want him to, as bleeding clock there likely would have won the game.

This is not meant to bash or re-hash, but at least be fair and accurate about what happened.

You joined this board on Friday and have made 14 posts and at least 7 of them are criticizing Brady.
Is that the type of posting we can expect from you?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I disagree with you saying the D was crappy all year. I just don't agree. McCourty had a Pro Bowl year at CB, Spikes came in and helpe, etc. Leigh Bodden was about to become a very good consistent player until a back injury ended his career. I am just saying, the D was not the problem in 2010.

The offense was historic. It put up so many points so quickly it forced other teams to go in passing mode. That and the TOs masked a lot of problems. If you look at the 3rd down D, yards allowed and the red zone D it was the worst in the NFL. If you don't want to look it up then you simply want to overlook it as a significant deficiency.

They actually were the hottest D in December that year. People just only remember them not bailing Brady and the offense out of a bad offensive performance vs the Jets.

They had plenty of weapons on the outside, whether it be Branch, Hernandez if they wanted him out there, Gronk, etc. They probably should have promoted Edelman to the Z earlier in his career than BB did, yes. But, the offense was loaded and balanced.

All they has was Branch at WR. AH, WW and Gronk were not outside receivers. WR2 was Brandon Tate. That should tell you something. Brady was at his height (back then)

The pattern I've seen is this:

Whether it be McDaniels or O'Brien (note how each coordinator appears to be the same guy), they panic as if, if they don't score 14 points inthe 1st qtr, they try to chase points they think they should have gotten by going finesse. Once the opponent sniffs that out, they start subbing the RBs on and off based on each's skill sets, Brady stands in the shotgun like a statue and the defenses can just scheme knowing that's where he will be.

Chase points? Panic?

This year? Note the West Coast style of plays they've been running. Brady is under Center more and more, channeling his inner Montana circa 1984, with Lewis acting like Wendell Tyler and Burkhead channeling his inner Roger Craig.

Now, they just need to improve in the red zone and I think they will with guys healthier now.

We are not watching the same games. They are actually throwing the ball downfield more. West Coast is a lot of slants and intermediates. Due to injuries they aren't doing that as much as years prior.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Fortunately, I never had the chance to watch that game. I don’t know what happened except that we lost after a great season, and it’s always hard for me to get the incentive to find that game and watch us lose. Was it really just a horrible game by us or did the jets play exceptional? I think Sanchez was the qb right?

I think RW had it right on the money. They flooded the middle, brought pressure unpredictably and made Brady *very* antsy because he couldn't find a safe outlet and the screen game was stifled. Even more than the game-that-must-not-be-mentioned it looked to me as if Rex had found the Patriots' kryptonite. Since then (or so it seems to me) the Pats have made sure they have had a between-the-tackles running game and a deep threat, whenever possible.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You joined this board on Friday and have made 14 posts and at least 7 of them are criticizing Brady.
Is that the type of posting we can expect from you?

Place bets?

Tr__l?

 

[Ring 6]

Place bets?

Tr__l?

Can I have an o pat?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Fortunately, I never had the chance to watch that game. I don’t know what happened except that we lost after a great season, and it’s always hard for me to get the incentive to find that game and watch us lose. Was it really just a horrible game by us or did the jets play exceptional? I think Sanchez was the qb right?

My advice is not to watch it. Not worth the time or the aggravation.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

The offense was historic. It put up so many points so quickly it forced other teams to go in passing mode. That and the TOs masked a lot of problems. If you look at the 3rd down D, yards allowed and the red zone D it was the worst in the NFL. If you don't want to look it up then you don't want to tell you.



All they has was Branch at WR. AH, WW and Gronk were not outside receivers. WR2 was Brandon Tate. That should tell you something. Brady was at his height (back then)



Chase points? Panic?



We are not watching the same games. They are actually throwing the ball downfield more. West Coast is a lot of slants and intermediates. Due to injuries they aren't doing that as much as years prior.

Correct. Well, to Cooks. Cooks is the Jerry Rice of this offense, and no, I am not comparing Cooks to Rice.

The West Coast included timely deep balls from Montana. Key word there is "timely". McDaniels is no Bill Walsh, that is for sure. IMO, McDaniels is calling way too many deep plays, which has been tied to the amount of hits Brady has taken.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think Welker should have caught it, but you have to at least admit Brady throwing off his back foot, caused that ball to go high. He was wide open, dude.

If you actually think the height of the pass was the reason it wasn't caught, you're going to be completely useless analyzing anything.

You and I could have hit that on a line and Welker may have even scored. I didn't want him to, as bleeding clock there likely would have won the game.

This is not meant to bash or re-hash, but at least be fair and accurate about what happened.

Yes, it's meant to bash and re-hash. That's obvious by the wording. It's not fair and accurate about what happened, either. If you're going to post, either do it honestly or troll better.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

You joined this board on Friday and have made 14 posts and at least 7 of them are criticizing Brady.
Is that the type of posting we can expect from you?

How is being accurate and fair when the offense is not where it needs to be, some kind of a taboo thing to talk about here?

You do realize the media hates BB more than Brady, that sometimes the analysis goes off the rails on a national level, right?

 

[Chris Stevenson]

If you think actually the height of the pass was the reason it wasn't caught, you're going to be completely useless analyzing anything.



Yes, it's meant to bash and re-hash. It's not fair and accurate about what happened, either. If you're going to post, either do it honestly or troll better.

WOW

This board appears to be similar to other boards where Brady Bullies roam free.

 

[Ring 6]

The offense was historic. It put up so many points so quickly it forced other teams to go in passing mode. That and the TOs masked a lot of problems. If you look at the 3rd down D, yards allowed and the red zone D it was the worst in the NFL. If you don't want to look it up then you simply want to overlook it as a significant deficiency.



All they has was Branch at WR. AH, WW and Gronk were not outside receivers. WR2 was Brandon Tate. That should tell you something. Brady was at his height (back then)



Chase points? Panic?



We are not watching the same games. They are actually throwing the ball downfield more. West Coast is a lot of slants and intermediates. Due to injuries they aren't doing that as much as years prior.

We are nothing like a WCO.

 

[Deus Irae]

WOW

This board appears to be similar to other boards where Brady Bullies roam free.

And now you're flipping this to "Brady Bullies", because I pointed out some obvious problems with your post and was, to use your words, fair and accurate?

Place bets?

Tr__l?

Gentlemen, you have your answer.