Patricia Vs Judge For Play Calling Duties?

[TomPatriot]

I don’t see why either coach can’t be a good OC.

Neither coach had talent when they were HCs.

I’m not a huge Patricia fan but he had a talent starved defense when he was DC here. He practiced every day against the Pats offense so he must know the offensive playbook intimately.

Playcalling is about 1/10th as valuable as execution, regardless of the play called.

Judge has some offensive experience both in NE and as Giants HC.

I don’t think the sky is falling.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Remember when Bill had respectable assistant coaches?

Jabba the Matt and Judge are respectable coaches.

Just not as offensive ones.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think Patricia is doing more front office strategic stuff - friend of Bill. At 70 Bill needs a friend in front office support. Patricia will not be calling offensive plays.

Will it be Caley or Judge calling the offensive plays with Bill's input? My guess is Caley because he has been here over the last 7 years, creates a smooth transition, has a relationship with Mac, and has paid his dues. Also Judge is needed as a "jack of all trades" helping on the OL and Special Teams. Last year's OL for the first 6 weeks was less than desirable and special teams had a down year too. Both areas need significant help. And my guess is that Judge wants an oversight role not a specific detailed play-calling role.

 

[amfootball]

I don’t see why either coach can’t be a good OC.

Neither coach had talent when they were HCs.

I’m not a huge Patricia fan but he had a talent starved defense when he was DC here. He practiced every day against the Pats offense so he must know the offensive playbook intimately.

Playcalling is about 1/10th as valuable as execution, regardless of the play called.

Judge has some offensive experience both in NE and as Giants HC.

I don’t think the sky is falling.

Did you watch the Giants last year?

 

[amfootball]

Jabba the Matt and Judge are respectable coaches.

Just not as offensive ones.

Exactly.

 

[ralmat55]

I think Patricia is doing more front office strategic stuff - friend of Bill. At 70 Bill needs a friend in front office support. Patricia will not be calling offensive plays.

Will it be Caley or Judge calling the offensive plays with Bill's input? My guess is Caley because he has been here over the last 7 years, creates a smooth transition, has a relationship with Mac, and has paid his dues. Also Judge is needed as a "jack of all trades" helping on the OL and Special Teams. Last year's OL for the first 6 weeks was less than desirable and special teams had a down year too. Both areas need significant help. And my guess is that Judge wants an oversight role not a specific detailed play-calling role.

Agree on Patricia but disagree with your guess of Caley. My guess is Judge. Bill’s not big on titles, but he is big on seniority and experience. Caley’s 7 years as TE coach doesn’t hold a candle to a multi year STs coach (which is an untitled coordinator position)with 2 years of HC experience. Bill has already trusted Judge with significant responsibilities as ST coach and was not let down. Caley will be the first amongst equals of the rest of the offensive position coaches.

 

[TomPatriot]

Did you watch the Giants last year?

Yes, they had no talent at all.

 

[captain stone]

My money is on Stevie Belichick.

I wouldn't be that shocked if Amanda is eventually on the payroll too...like Nike...

 

[Clonamery]

Did you watch the Giants last year?

Judge was not good obviously but he had a non-existent GM who gave very little to work with. Think about this, Ladarius Toney was their #1 pick in the '21 Draft. He played in 10 games (out for 6) and caught 39 passes for 420 and no TD's and there were trade rumors floating THIS year. Also, he ran 3 times for 6 yards and threw 3 times with 1 completion for 19 yards to the QB on a trick play. They were so bad that the commentators (oh , the geniuses) who actually were saying to let Toney play QB because he's better at evading the rush. Yeah, end of year Judge got the boot by the New GM who had his own guy in mind and Gettleman got honored before the last game and allowed to retire. The Giants' ownership is mush.

 

[borisman]

This might deserve it's own thread pretty soon.

 

[venecol]

I don't recall ever hearing so much about the team from Kraft (draft, coaches, FAcy, young players, QB, and now offensive schemes????).

It's pretty clear Kraft isn't happy w/ lack of playoff wins (who can blame him) and team being perceived as mid-tier (post TFB).

The thought the Pats could go away from traditional O plays and incorporate more college RPO and other concepts/schemes speaks volumes to the end of BB's dynasty era ways. I for one would welcome a change in direction w/ new ideas.

 

[Salsalife]

Hey Charlie Weis, what's up old buddy. You are a TRUE offensive minded coach. Would you mind stopping by Patriots camp and evaluate Judge and Patricia? Are we going down the wrong path? Can these guys actually hurt Mac's second year? Oh, B.T.W, come back and coach for us, we have to many chefs in the kitchen.

 

[crawhammer]

Yeah this a joke that is destined to backfire... both of these clowns fluked out badly as head coaches. Neither seemingly brings anything of value to the Patriots coaching staff as offensive assistants or play-callers. The Lions offense was putrid under Patricia. The Giants offense was worse than putrid under Judge. Guaranteed that Daboll will get much better results from Daniel Jones. I wonder what the Krafts think of this? Surprising they would allow such blatantly irresponsible decision making.

 

[masterbouncer]

Yeah this a joke that is destined to backfire... both of these clowns fluked out badly as head coaches. Neither seemingly brings anything of value to the Patriots coaching staff as offensive assistants or play-callers. The Lions offense was putrid under Patricia. The Giants offense was worse than putrid under Judge. Guaranteed that Daboll will get much better results from Daniel Jones. I wonder what the Krafts think of this? Surprising they would allow such blatantly irresponsible decision making.

you are aware that it takes different skills to be a good HC compared to a OC/DC or positional coach?
there are many that where horrible as HCs but still were and are good to great coordinators or positional coaches

I am not saying Judge or Patricia seem to be a great fit, but lets evaluate them after some games have been played, no?

 

[crawhammer]

you are aware that it takes different skills to be a good HC compared to a OC/DC or positional coach?
there are many that where horrible as HCs but still were and are good to great coordinators or positional coaches

I am not saying Judge or Patricia seem to be a great fit, but lets evaluate them after some games have been played, no?

What choice do we ultimately have? Bill's not reading this thread for ideas. I'm just saying I don't think it's a good idea for a variety of reasons. So yeah we'll see how it plays out but if the offense sputters with either one of them calling plays then the criticism is going to be relentless.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

crawhammer is at it again with his anti-Bill trolling...

 

[masterbouncer]

What choice do we ultimately have? Bill's not reading this thread for ideas. I'm just saying I don't think it's a good idea for a variety of reasons. So yeah we'll see how it plays out but if the offense sputters with either one of them calling plays then the criticism is going to be relentless.

sure, of course the offense will have some bad drives and even games, thats how it goes and we did have it with McD and Brady in the past years as well, unfortunatelly its not that often that your offense can't be stopped like the Bills vs the Pats, those kind of games are quite rare let alone repeatable throughout the season and to some extent every fan expects its team to score on each drive but we are not in Madden on Rookie Level hence we have to accept not only players having a learning curve but coaches as well

 

[crawhammer]

crawhammer is at it again with his anti-Bill trolling...

You're paranoid. I'm not anti-Bill-ing anything. If he has either Patricia or Judge calling offensive plays and it's not working then obviously he's going to get criticized for the decision. If it's a rousing success then we can all agree he made the right call. The Bill angle is of secondary importance... I want Mac Jones to be given the greatest opportunity for success so I would much prefer him working with experienced play-calling OC.

 

[1960Pats]

Back in the day when Matty P was working offense

Fast forward to now.

Holy moly! He isn't working the defense, he's eating it.

 

[1960Pats]

Comments:

1.) It's the dog days of the NFL off season....so I'll bother to comment here, LOL.

2.) WTF is all of this "Fat Matt" B.S.? Like some of you fools actually sport washboard abs behind those monitors, huh?

3.) The man was an engineer who turned down an offer from Westinghouse to work on nuclear submarines to work as a football assistant at Amherst.

4.) The man was our defensive coordinator for the Butler interception game AND the Houston SB where we held the Falcons' offense to 21 points...including two big stops by our DL after the Julio Jones toe tap catch.

5.) And most importantly of all...the man bravely wore a "Goodell Bozo" T-Shirt prior to interviewing for HC jobs. That will always endear Patricia to me!

6.) As for Joe Judge, yeah...not sure...I didn't like that draw play he ran last year on 3rd and long shortly before getting fired. But he's a football coach like Patricia is.

7.) Coaching on the other side of the ball or even as a head coach overseeing all units gives you an unique perspective on offense, IMO.

8.) It bears repeating, but in the past Belichick has explained how the Pats coaches and "GM" are all on the same headsets during games. BB is always listening to play calls in all 3 phases and can interject at any point. Heck, Caserio even did the same thing in Houston last year with Culley...Caserio was listening on game days all of his time in Foxborough too.

9.) Patricia/Judge's successes...or lack thereof...mostly had to do with personnel...not coaching. And BB would be the first to tell yall...it's the players who win.

1) Me too.
2) I reserve the right to joke about his weight, even with my physique.
3) I doubt that Matt's parents were happy but it turned out to be a great decision.
4) If a coach is successful it's because of the players.
5) The Goodell clown shirt (I usually wear it while cutting the grass) made him one of my favorites.
6) Judge also needs players, just like Patricia.
7) It seems like the strategy is to not let anyone know who's calling the plays.
8) My favorite example of that was when The Butler Did it and Bill let everyone know that "I've got this."
9) Of course it helps to have a great HC but it's better to have great players IMHO.