Owners including Kraft must turn over all cell phone records

[TheBostonStraggler]

Mostly sarcasm, just because I would like to see this board lose its collective mind. I am not a Kap hater though but too much of a distraction.

No worries.
No need for Kap to be a distraction -- this is a Patriots board in the midst of the drive for 6. Kap is now a political discussion (or legality one if he's right). He isn't playing for the Patriots and he isn't playing in the NFL. Some people think he is a martyr, some people think he is a moron. But if he's not in the NFL because he sucks, he's bad for business, or he was collectively banned is irrelevant -- he isn't playing for the Patriots or anyone of our opponents (regular season or playoffs), or playing against a non opponent.

One could easily find a better forum to discuss the politics of a player who not in the NFL yet is making an impact on the mindset of the NFL. Yet while those that insist talking about people not in the NFL, how about bring up Bryan Stork or Mike Wright as a player not in the NFL? I'd like to think everyone will see and gain perspective from seeing why players are not in the NFL vary in importance. And if one is unable to gain at least some perspective from that then a look in the mirror is in order.

Kap isn't in the NFL, we know their are varying views on that reality, go read and blog about him at ESPN or law news, turn the page here, we are onto Denver, Jets still suck, we are in the process of once again owning the AFCE, a minimum of an AFCCG looks very good, bunch of guys coming back from injury over the next week or two. Just WAYYYY too much good Patriots fodder to be discussing a guy, Kap, who will have no impact in any shape or form on the 2017 Patriots.

 

[DarrylS]

I would say over the past 4 years, Kaep was probably the worst starter in the league. Under 60% accuracy, average less than 20 TDs a season and average almost 3 sacks a game. Even worse he averaged less than 200 yards/per game and about 7 yards/rec. He was so inaccurate not even the other team could intercept them. I'm sorry those are horrible numbers.

Not sure how you can show evidence of your contention.. but then again there are sources for every absurd statistic. Sorry to inform you but the idea is, "not even the other team could intercept them".

Despite the evidence shown you believe that Matt McGloin is a better QB statistically than Kapernick?? A guy with 11 TD's and 11 Int's. Here is the biggie he has a 58% completion rate..

Fans want to paint Kapernick as something of a guy who is washed up or no good, while he is not upper echelon he is not as bad as many backups currently in the NFL.. the owners do not want to get involved with his baggage, that is his allegation.

Another issue with Kapernick is toward the end he was playing with some really crappy SF teams.. 2015- 5 W's and 11 L's, 2016- 2 W's and 14 L's and this year they are winless..

 

[mosslost]

If he threw for 4,000 yards, 32 TD passes, and won 60% of his games

you think those are back up QB numbers? I said "be on a team". You think Fitzpatrick had those numbers and that success? I think Kap sucks and I hated watching his style of play, however the guy has been a winner, and took that now sorry franchise to the SB and almost won it. He absolutely smoked an excellent Pats team in Foxboro while Pats were chasing HFA in 2013. For goodness sake, Brian Hoyer is on a team, our team.

No question whatsoever that the owners have chosen NOT to hire him because he started the mess the NFL is now in. (Not to mention he is suing the league.) I support not hiring him in the NFL even as a ball boy.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Aside from his politics is Kapernick a better QB statistically than McGloin or Hoyer?? Interesting statistics....

There are a lot of "horrible" back ups in the NFL, is Kapernick the most horrible??.. sooner the NFL owners will acquiesce to this lawsuit, as none of them want all the dirty details of the NFL to come out..

It is interesting that the NFL will forgive a child beater like Adrian Peterson or give abusers like Hardy and Elliot the benefit of the doubt, but not Kapernick??

In 5 years Kapernick..
72 TD's
30 int
QB rating of 88.9
2300 yards rushing.. 13 TD's

In 9 years Hoyer...
48 TD's
38 int
QB rating of 83.3
124 yards rushing.. 2 TD's

In 4 years Matt McGloin now the back up in Houston, I know Bill O'B knows him from Penn State..

11 TD's
11 Int
QB rating 75.3
27 yards rushing..0 TD's

No teams want disruptive players...especially a disruptive QB.

Has Hoyer or McGloin ever been disruptive to their teams? THATS the reason no one wants Kap. All teams want in their most important player (and all players), is complete dedication to be a contributor to the teams success.

It’s one thing to have issues in your private life, but another to bring focus to things unrelated to winning football games onto the field of play

He reaped what he sowed. Nfl teams have every right to pass on this guy. Employers don’t have to explain why they don’t hire you either.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He reaped what he sowed. Nfl teams have every right to pass on this guy. Employers don’t have to explain why they don’t hire you either.

Thats where I come down on this issue as well. The NFL is the private sector. They have a right to suspend or fire players for not standing during the NA. With that said they can certainly expose themselves to the wrath of society's own rules.

Where it gets muddy is they are allowing players to sit and kneel when that is what Kap would do.

 

[brdmaverick]

And if people say there is baggage and drama with Kaep, I won't disagree. But the posts bashing his play as the reason he doesn't have a job are totally wrong.

It certainly is a big factor, though. After all, if he was talented to still be a successful starter there is no question he would have a job. Mike Vick and Greg Hardy got second chances. Kaep does come with some added drama, and clearly teams don't see his play as being worth the drama.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I highly doubt this suit makes it past summary judgment. Don't expect to be seeing the transcripts from ole Jerrah's phone calls anytime soon. First you have to prove that your case has standing, then a decent chance of winning, BEFORE any discovery would be allowed. I doubt it gets that far. You have to remember that Kaepernick's lawyer also argued that Scott Peterson was innocent! (because we call go "fishing" in the Pacific Ocean, in a row boat, on Christmas Eve while your wife is "missing").

The NFL is a private business and can hire or fire anyone they want for any reason or no reason. Rae Carruth never got another contract offer, neither did Ray Rice, Aaron Hernandez, Blackman, Greg Hardy, and the best two examples in this case, Robert Griffith and Johnny Manziel.

This suit has ZERO chance, and will never make it to discovery phase. And if it does, the NFL will file motion after motion and drag this out so long that Kaepernick will be broke and his lawyer long gone, before he even smells the discovery phase.

 

[brdmaverick]

you think those are back up QB numbers? I said "be on a team". You think Fitzpatrick had those numbers and that success? I think Kap sucks and I hated watching his style of play, however the guy has been a winner, and took that now sorry franchise to the SB and almost won it. He absolutely smoked an excellent Pats team in Foxboro while Pats were chasing HFA in 2013. For goodness sake, Brian Hoyer is on a team, our team.

No question whatsoever that the owners have chosen NOT to hire him because he started the mess the NFL is now in. (Not to mention he is suing the league.) I support not hiring him in the NFL even as a ball boy.

Never once did I say those were backup numbers. That was a counterpoint to those suggesting that his actual level of play has nothing to do with.........to which I say we all know that if he as talented enough owners/gms/coaches would be willing to overlook almost anything.

As I've previously noted in one of my responses on this thread, if you are talking about backup then it's a different game. Some teams would prefer a young (up and coming) QB as their backup while others prefer one that fits the same style/skills as their starter. And many a backup who remains 'in the background', one who won't cause a stir, team divide, or qb controversy.

 

[mosslost]

Never once did I say those were backup numbers. That was a counterpoint to those suggesting that his actual level of play has nothing to do with.........to which I say we all know that if he as talented enough owners/gms/coaches would be willing to overlook almost anything.

As I've previously noted in one of my responses on this thread, if you are talking about backup then it's a different game. Some teams would prefer a young (up and coming) QB as their backup while others prefer one that fits the same style/skills as their starter. And many a backup who remains 'in the background', one who won't cause a stir, team divide, or qb controversy.

he is being black balled entirely due to him starting the protesting of America. If he was a perfect all-American, non-prostesting QB he would be STARTING for the Packers, or the maybe the Colts, or Cardinals.. etc. No... question... about... it.

But I am glad they won't hire him and it is their right not to.

PS: he probably would be starting for the 49ers

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Thats where I come down on this issue as well. The NFL is the private sector. They have a right to suspend or fire players for not standing during the NA. With that said they can certainly expose themselves to the wrath of society's own rules.

However, they don't have the right to cooperate/coordinate in refusing to hire the guy because they voluntarily agreed to waive that right when they signed onto the current language of the CBA.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

I don't know if this has been discussed previously in the 9 pages or so this thread has reached but . . . what exactly are Kaepernick's legal damages if he can prove collusion?

If the NFL hadn't "colluded" against him, his best case scenario would have been a backup QB contract like the one Hoyer just got (3 year $4.5M with $1.5M guaranteed).

So why doesn't the NFL just cut him a settlement check and be done with this? This is a group of owners that thinks nothing of paying a moron like Goodell 30-40M a year to screw up the league. Instead of dealing with the hassle of potentially embarrassing discovery disclosures, just fish for loose change in the metaphorical couch and resolve this headache.

 

[brdmaverick]

he is being black balled entirely due to him starting the protesting of America. If he was a perfect all-American, non-prostesting QB he would be STARTING for the Packers, or the maybe the Colts, or Cardinals.. etc. No... question... about... it.

But I am glad they won't hire him and it is their right not to.

PS: he probably would be starting for the 49ers

He WAS starting for the 49ers and went 1-10. So I think they've had their fill of him.

 

[mgteich]

he is being black balled entirely due to him starting the protesting of America. If he was a perfect all-American, non-prostesting QB he would be STARTING for the Packers, or the maybe the Colts, or Cardinals.. etc. No... question... about... it.

But I am glad they won't hire him and it is their right not to.

PS: he probably would be starting for the 49ers

At very least, he would be a backup for one of those teams, or for HOU.

 

[mgteich]

So why doesn't the NFL just cut him a settlement check and be done with this?

IMHO, that is exactly what will happen.

 

[SalemPats]

Not sure how you can show evidence of your contention.. but then again there are sources for every absurd statistic. Sorry to inform you but the idea is, "not even the other team could intercept them".

Despite the evidence shown you believe that Matt McGloin is a better QB statistically than Kapernick?? A guy with 11 TD's and 11 Int's. Here is the biggie he has a 58% completion rate..

Fans want to paint Kapernick as something of a guy who is washed up or no good, while he is not upper echelon he is not as bad as many backups currently in the NFL.. the owners do not want to get involved with his baggage, that is his allegation.

Another issue with Kapernick is toward the end he was playing with some really crappy SF teams.. 2015- 5 W's and 11 L's, 2016- 2 W's and 14 L's and this year they are winless..

In football systems are extremely important, Kap doesn't fit in every system and with the trend going away from the running QB, his game is a bit old. his play has been horrible over the last 4 years, there are 30 starting jobs and 30 backup jobs, it's a tough position to make it.

If he wants to make it back, go to the CFL show your game and come back

 

[RobertWeathers]

However, they don't have the right to cooperate/coordinate in refusing to hire the guy because they voluntarily agreed to waive that right when they signed onto the current language of the CBA.

Correct. Good luck to Kap proving that.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Correct. Good luck to Kap proving that.

We'll see how dumb the owners and/or front office staff are. Only takes one text or email.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We'll see how dumb the owners and/or front office staff are. Only takes one text or email.

It'll get squashed. I have supreme confidence even if guilty the owners will skate.

 

[TB_Helmet]

He WAS starting for the 49ers and went 1-10. So I think they've had their fill of him.

So you're saying they were better with him than they are this year??

 

[brdmaverick]

So you're saying they were better with him than they are this year??

Well, yes, 1-10 is better than 0-8 but it just proves that they all suck.

Kaep sucked so they went a different direction.

The guys this year sucked so they'll go in another direction again.

That's why they traded for Jimmy G.