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OT: Watson to Brownies

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BaconGrundleCandy

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Honestly I'm looking forward to watching Cleveland with Baker. Give me all the drama. I'd love it of he did a mini holdout and really milk this. Go on vacation during the week. Start a picket line and try to organize the masseuses. There's a ton of potential here.
 

Koma

In the Starting Line-Up
Given the Omissioner can do whatever he wants, he could impose the penalty of 1 year and $42M cash fine --OR-- 2 years with salary forfeited, just to eff with the smartass agent and the Browns. It'd be the player's choice. He can get it over with to prove he's all in on Cleveland ( :rofl: ) or he can say me first and rest his body for an extra year.


NFLPA had Brady's back too, right?

In the end it'll be the same, NFLPA will whine but NJFL can do whatever it wants to do.


I totally agree. If you read the NYT/Vrentas piece, in one part she describes a case where Watson drove a half hour out of his way to meet one woman in her own home. Clearly if all he wanted was a massage he could have found someone a lot closer that probably would even be willing to come to him. He's getting off on the power trip of being able to perv on these women in their own homes, and he's going way out of his way to be able to do so. To me, it shows he's sick, and it shows he isn't gonna get better till he admits he has a problem and admits he needs to deal with it. To me, this shows the Browns have no idea what they're getting themselves into, because there's every chance he does it again.

That's the key that the NFLPA and fans are forgetting/overlooking/ignoring. Goodell can suspend Watson for the first quarter of the week 1 this season or for the next 3 season or anything in between. The NFL spent considerable time and money making sure the commissioner had that authority. I'm sure there were Browns fans and Deshaun Watson fans who were happy when Brady lost his court battle with the league and was suspended. Now their QB is subject to Goodell's whims and it's not fair. Too bad.
 

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If I was writing the screenplay for the NFL, Watson would have been traded to the Steelers.

Just to maintain consistency at QB.

1655763784377.png
 

patfanken

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The Watson and Kraft situations are not analogous IMO.

In one case, a person was upfront and forward about paying for a consensual sexual massage.

In the other case, a person has been evasive, unclear, and ambiguous, offering different accounts at different times, about requesting a seemingly regular massage, then insisting on sexual acts during it and refusing to back down if the feeling was not mutual. As a result of this, there are 22 civil suits.

In one case the nature of the "crime" was offering money for sex, in a context where the sex was agreed up, consensual, and expected.

In the other case the nature of the "crime" is insisting on having sex despite the other person not consenting.

Is paying for a consensual sexual massage a little seedy? Sure. Is a seedy (but consensual) sexual act some grave moral transgression? Not in my opinion.

What about insisting on sexual acts when the other party has indicated they are not interested? That's traumatizing, abusive, and generally terrible. Is a nonconsensual sexual act a grave moral transgression? 100%, absolutely.

Why would someone have 66 masseuses in a couple year period? Why would individuals who have remained anonymous and have not filed for any recourse, criminal nor civil, corroborate the accounts given, and provide consistent, detailed, specific allegations against Watson?

Are they all in on an evil plot to tank Watson? (If that was the case, it would very likely be uncovered during discovery when electronic communications are combed through; ditto for any massive plot for financial gain - you cannot coordinate a plan like that among a few people, let alone 20+, without a paper trail ... and yet zero evidence of fabrication/collusion has been brought forth).

I understand keeping an open mind and remaining skeptical in every instance, but the totality of the allegations against Watson, both in terms of scope and detail, are pretty damning IMO.
Are you comfortable with a male multi-millionaire local sports here looking to "employ" 66 DIFFERENT female masseuses over an 16 month period (not 2 years). The issue here isn't some male looking to get off. He could EASILY do that for free at ANY local club, restaurant or park in the Houston area, OR if he were really lazy pay for a high class call girl. But no he NEEDED to go to 66 DIFFERENT massage therapists. Why not find 3 or 4 girls who were willing to be paid for his "happy endings". You are correct that there probably were a few that would have been willing to engage in a "consensual" relationship for money. IF that was what he wanted.

But none of this was about sex, it was about power. He simply got off imposing his will. It's almost a textbook example of predatory and narcissistic behavior. There is no question in my mind that eventually preying on massage therapists wouldn't have been enough. So in a sense maybe all this examination of his life style might be the wakeup call that he desperately needs to change this dangerous path he's on. Instead all we get are denial after denial.

This isn't "creepy" behavior, this is DANGEROUS behavior. If he gets a mere slap on the wrist (ie an 8 game suspension) the league be in danger of losing their monopoly exemption so anything less than a year's suspension WTHOUT pay at a minimum would bring severe repercussions IMHO

And perhaps the reason there are only 24 of the 66 girls filing suit, is because it is STILL prevalent in this country that when a woman accuses a prominent male of sexual impropriety in this country it is all too often that it is the female that goes on trial. That is why Rathlessburger and his buddies got away with his rape. Because the woman didn't want to have her trauma exacerbated by a month's long trail and EVERY sexual interaction she ever had real and imagined, subject public examination, because back then that's what would have happened.

BTW- and the league should also fine the idiot owner of the Browns who gave him that ludicrous contract in the first place AND make them eat the 25MM cap space this season. as well as fining and taking away draft picks from the Texans for enabling Watson with these NDA's. They shouldn't benefit from unloading their bad baggage Again JMHO
 

1960Pats

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The issue of consent plays out a bit differently in your scenario.


I see what you did there.


We learned from the Brady saga that the NFL changes its rules on the fly and courts do nothing about it. Commissioner has ultimate authority to decide what the rules mean and if/when/how they are applied. TB12 could have taken it to the highest court in the land but then again if he had chances are high he wouldn't have just signed a deal to be the face of the sport for FOX at twice the pay of the previous record setting contract.


That's not the part that bothers me, the part that bothers me is they say they care about character, but know that they don't. They want the benefit of being seen as being squeaky clean when they know they're just as tainted as anyone else, probably more since we all know money corrupts. IMO it'd be far better if they would drop the pretense. Stop pretending you're more moral than everyone else, more patriotic too.


I know at least one person who has dropped their life-long Browns fandom over the Watson move. Before the move, they were an up and coming team largely built via the draft and led by a gritty QB. In one move they threw the gritty QB under the bus, tanked the next few years drafts, and committed a huge chunk of their salary cap to a deeply troubled player. Jimmy Haslam showed his true colors.
I also know a lifelong Browns fan who's contemplating dumping the team.
 

1960Pats

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Are you comfortable with a male multi-millionaire local sports here looking to "employ" 66 DIFFERENT female masseuses over an 16 month period (not 2 years). The issue here isn't some male looking to get off. He could EASILY do that for free at ANY local club, restaurant or park in the Houston area, OR if he were really lazy pay for a high class call girl. But no he NEEDED to go to 66 DIFFERENT massage therapists. Why not find 3 or 4 girls who were willing to be paid for his "happy endings". You are correct that there probably were a few that would have been willing to engage in a "consensual" relationship for money. IF that was what he wanted.

But none of this was about sex, it was about power. He simply got off imposing his will. It's almost a textbook example of predatory and narcissistic behavior. There is no question in my mind that eventually preying on massage therapists wouldn't have been enough. So in a sense maybe all this examination of his life style might be the wakeup call that he desperately needs to change this dangerous path he's on. Instead all we get are denial after denial.

This isn't "creepy" behavior, this is DANGEROUS behavior. If he gets a mere slap on the wrist (ie an 8 game suspension) the league be in danger of losing their monopoly exemption so anything less than a year's suspension WTHOUT pay at a minimum would bring severe repercussions IMHO

And perhaps the reason there are only 24 of the 66 girls filing suit, is because it is STILL prevalent in this country that when a woman accuses a prominent male of sexual impropriety in this country it is all too often that it is the female that goes on trial. That is why Rathlessburger and his buddies got away with his rape. Because the woman didn't want to have her trauma exacerbated by a month's long trail and EVERY sexual interaction she ever had real and imagined, subject public examination, because back then that's what would have happened.

BTW- and the league should also fine the idiot owner of the Browns who gave him that ludicrous contract in the first place AND make them eat the 25MM cap space this season. as well as fining and taking away draft picks from the Texans for enabling Watson with these NDA's. They shouldn't benefit from unloading their bad baggage Again JMHO
Excellent take.

Now for the worse news. I heard this morning that one angle that Watson's lawyer will use in his defense is how Bob Kraft was allowed to walk after his incident at Orchards of Asia. I hope that rumor isn't true.
 

Bill Lee

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BTW- and the league should also fine the idiot owner of the Browns who gave him that ludicrous contract in the first place AND make them eat the 25MM cap space this season. as well as fining and taking away draft picks from the Texans for enabling Watson with these NDA's. They shouldn't benefit from unloading their bad baggage Again JMHO
As I'm sure you know, each and every player contract gets submitted to the NFL and they must approve it before it is considered accepted, and Nick Caserio pointed out that we're well past that point with this player.

The fact the NFL approved the contract shows either:
a) they were asleep, or
b) they approved of this deal.

It's hard to reach any other conclusion that they approved of this deal.

The timing makes it even more evident: it was shortly after the first grand jury did not press criminal charges against the player.

It's pretty clear the NFL hoped the lack of charges followed by the trade would be an end to this saga. They are counting on the notorious short memory the public has, and the fact that much of the media carries water for the agents as shown by Shefter, and the fact the TV networks can also be counted on for favorable treatment since NFL Football is about the only product they have that advertisers are interested in.

Yet I think this may have been a step too far, a move too cynical. They think the public will forget that this guy is a serial sexual predator, and I don't think they will. They think he won't be a problem in the future, and I think he probably will be. They think that his play on the field will make the unprecedented contract and assets traded seem like it was worth it, yet that remains to be proven, and if he's a flop the team will be stuck with his huge salary and without the draft choices they gave up to get him. We don't know how focused the player will be when he eventually makes it onto the field, how well he will perform, how his team will or will not accept him.

All of this reeks of Goodell acting behind the scenes, stoking up the lust that an ageing rich owner like Haslam has in order to try to relieve some of the pressure on a franchise that's been down for so many years, working so everything can come together the minute that the grand jury did not press criminal charges. It would not surprise me a bit if he orchestrated the whole thing.

Oh well, as the DA recently said, not pressing charges is not an exoneration, no matter how the lackeys who carry water for the agents try to spin things.
 

Bill Lee

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Now for the worse news. I heard this morning that one angle that Watson's lawyer will use in his defense is how Bob Kraft was allowed to walk after his incident at Orchards of Asia. I hope that rumor isn't true.
I think a few things are being conflated here.

The NFLPA has pointed out that league rules say owners are to be held to a higher standard than players, and this is supposed to be a mitigating factor with regard to the player's upcoming suspension. Well, league rules also say inflation pressure is an equipment issue subject to a minor fine, so good luck with getting the NFL to treat one of the cattle better than one of the ranchers.

The suspension is IMO a relatively minor matter compared to the outcome of the civil trials, and in that venue what Krafty Bob does to get off isn't relevant.
 

rochrist

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Excellent take.

Now for the worse news. I heard this morning that one angle that Watson's lawyer will use in his defense is how Bob Kraft was allowed to walk after his incident at Orchards of Asia. I hope that rumor isn't true.
That’s what they’d like to do. Unfortunately for them, the incidents aren’t remotely comparable,
 

patfanken

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I think a few things are being conflated here.

The NFLPA has pointed out that league rules say owners are to be held to a higher standard than players, and this is supposed to be a mitigating factor with regard to the player's upcoming suspension. Well, league rules also say inflation pressure is an equipment issue subject to a minor fine, so good luck with getting the NFL to treat one of the cattle better than one of the ranchers.
When the federal appeals court overturned the ruling that pretty much exonerated Brady was based on the CBA, they basically gave a carte blanche for the commissioner to whatever he wanted REGARDLESS of the evidence, common sense, or fairness. If he wants to do what's right he can do it. If he wants to try and make this all go away and hopes that it won't have any repercussions, he can do that too.

The :"me too" movement has moved the needle a bit more toward fairness in recent years, but, at least for the prominent and the rich, all too often they get away with their predatory behavior. For every Harvey Weinstein there are many others that avoid justice and use our collective VERY short memory span just like Watson is hoping will happen.

Watson is a veyr good QB and Cleveland has a very good OL, great RB's, and more than adequate WR's and TE's. It looks like a prefect landing spot for him and he'd probably be successful there. Hard pressed to see Goodell doing the "right thing here". When has he ever? So it will be interesting going forward to see if the nation reacts and makes the NFL pay, or will it be "he's great and its much easier to forget what he's done, I just want my football team to WIN", kind of reaction

BTW- I forgot that the "league" has to approve contracts before they become fact. I bet there were 31 owners who would have wanted a do over on that decision on a fully guaranteed contract. Now if I were an agent, why would I accept anything less if MY client was a quality player.
 
Last edited:

Nehalem

In the Starting Line-Up
Are you comfortable with a male multi-millionaire local sports here looking to "employ" 66 DIFFERENT female masseuses over an 16 month period (not 2 years). The issue here isn't some male looking to get off. He could EASILY do that for free at ANY local club, restaurant or park in the Houston area, OR if he were really lazy pay for a high class call girl. But no he NEEDED to go to 66 DIFFERENT massage therapists. Why not find 3 or 4 girls who were willing to be paid for his "happy endings". You are correct that there probably were a few that would have been willing to engage in a "consensual" relationship for money. IF that was what he wanted.

But none of this was about sex, it was about power. He simply got off imposing his will. It's almost a textbook example of predatory and narcissistic behavior. There is no question in my mind that eventually preying on massage therapists wouldn't have been enough. So in a sense maybe all this examination of his life style might be the wakeup call that he desperately needs to change this dangerous path he's on. Instead all we get are denial after denial.

This isn't "creepy" behavior, this is DANGEROUS behavior. If he gets a mere slap on the wrist (ie an 8 game suspension) the league be in danger of losing their monopoly exemption so anything less than a year's suspension WTHOUT pay at a minimum would bring severe repercussions IMHO

And perhaps the reason there are only 24 of the 66 girls filing suit, is because it is STILL prevalent in this country that when a woman accuses a prominent male of sexual impropriety in this country it is all too often that it is the female that goes on trial. That is why Rathlessburger and his buddies got away with his rape. Because the woman didn't want to have her trauma exacerbated by a month's long trail and EVERY sexual interaction she ever had real and imagined, subject public examination, because back then that's what would have happened.

BTW- and the league should also fine the idiot owner of the Browns who gave him that ludicrous contract in the first place AND make them eat the 25MM cap space this season. as well as fining and taking away draft picks from the Texans for enabling Watson with these NDA's. They shouldn't benefit from unloading their bad baggage Again JMHO
At this point he was basically getting a new masseuse to sexually assault/harass every week for 16 months. That is serious WTF territory.

Honestly I would say at this point he should receive a lifetime ban.

But beyond that I am wondering WTF happened? Are there more cases further back? Or did he really go from behaving himself to getting "addicted" to sexually assaulting masseuses?o_O
 

Nehalem

In the Starting Line-Up
This situation is yet another excellent example of why the NFL, as a league, should never have gotten into the area of non-league discipline.
I don't think it is.

If a high profile employee of any company was accused of what Watson did I am pretty sure they would be summarily fired. Honestly if they were accused of even 1/10 of what he did they probably would be. His behavior is that far out there.
 
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