OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[sb1]

Bills legacy IMO will be as follows:

1) defensive genius
2) notorious cheater
3) his unprecedented success as a HC was the result of having the greatest Qb/player to ever play the game

Unfortunately #2 is not only part of his story but it's why I don't think he's a lock for the first ballot in the HOF. If you read Wickersham's book he is very aware that he has that perception.

 

[Guts]

I don't know of any team who we could expect to consistently shut down the Bucs, even without Gronk. I just don't know of any team that has both the DBs and the coverage LBs to do it.

I agree, but for whatever the reason the Saints matchup well with them. Maybe with a full year, full training camp etc the Bucs will be able to shred them

 

[Deus Irae]

C Ryan Jensen (hip), OLB Jason Pierre-Paul (hand/shoulder) and DL Patrick O’Connor (calf) are questionable for Thursday night’s game at Philly.

 

[Deus Irae]

Lane Johnson is out. Derek Barnett, Jason Kelce, Landon ****erson and Jordan Mailata are playing. Dallas Goedert is on the COVID-19 reserve list, so his status is not included on the injury report.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bucs have elevated Deon Yelder from their practice squad, giving them a third tight end for Thursday’s game at the Eagles.

 

[Tottie]

I wonder why Lane is out for this many games. I don't like him for obvious reasons but do we ever see a guy miss this many games for personal reasons? Hope his family is good and he's just being a ****y.

 

[gobesmug]

Unfortunately #2 is not only part of his story but it's why I don't think he's a lock for the first ballot in the HOF. If you read Wickersham's book he is very aware that he has that perception.

I think the cheating narrative has significantly dropped. Winning post spygate and post deflategate changed a lot of peoples opinion.

I think Brady also going to a different team and winning a Superbowl immediately, while the Pats failed to make the playoffs also showed that Bill didn't have some secret cheating mechanism that gave him a competitive advantage.

Bill's biggest competitive advantage was having Brady. That's not a knock against Bill, Bill is still one of the GOATs and has the greatest career of all time

 

[sb1]

I think the cheating narrative has significantly dropped. Winning post spygate and post deflategate changed a lot of peoples opinion.

I think Brady also going to a different team and winning a Superbowl immediately, while the Pats failed to make the playoffs also showed that Bill didn't have some secret cheating mechanism that gave him a competitive advantage.

Bill's biggest competitive advantage was having Brady. That's not a knock against Bill, Bill is still one of the GOATs and has the greatest career of all time

Yeah. And I don’t think Bill’s lack of success without Brady will hurt his legacy and his HOF case that much. It might a little - and I believe Bill thinks it will too - but I don’t think it’s enough to matter. BB is still one of the all time greats for sure and has the most rings, with a nod to his all generation GOAT QB that got them for him on the field.

But the -gates will hurt his legacy. At least one voter (from Pittsburgh I think) who has already said he is not voting for Bill for the HOF for that reason. I don’t think he’s the only one either. It sucks but it is what it is. If you believe Wickersham’s book Bill is very aware of this perception, he feels that his legacy has an asterisk in the minds of people for that stuff and he’s trying to do anything these days to avoid any kind of violation to further add to that.

 

[RicoG]

There's zero chance that Watson for Mac is a straight up trade.

You can take it to the bank that the Pats would get absolutely taken to the cleaners if they tried to get Watson. Is BB ok with that? Does Bill want to go for it and win now no matter the cost? Or is he patient enough to see Mac develop and will he want to stick around for that long? Guess we'll see.

I do think Bill is paying a lot of attention to the narrative that he is nothing without Brady and that might influence his decision. Wickersham's book says that Bill was more worried about his own legacy after deflategate than his quarterback's.... so you know he is aware of what people think.

Don't want Watson.

The Pat's need to be patient and develop Mac and the offense. Rebuild this year and next. They need to do with Mac what they should have done with Brady and go all in on offense. Draft offense in 1st and 2nd round. Try to draft a star out of the box like Mike Evan's was for the Bucs. Put most of the cap on offense.

BB is a defensive genius. He can build a decent enough defense with late rounders, undrafted players, and retreads like Van Noy and Jamie Collins. Stop putting high drafts and big bucks on defense and special team. At least not for the first few years of Mac.

 

[RicoG]

Yeah. And I don’t think Bill’s lack of success without Brady will hurt his legacy and his HOF case that much. It might a little - and I believe Bill thinks it will too - but I don’t think it’s enough to matter. BB is still one of the all time greats for sure and has the most rings, with a nod to his all generation GOAT QB that got them for him on the field.

But the -gates will hurt his legacy. At least one voter (from Pittsburgh I think) who has already said he is not voting for Bill for the HOF for that reason. I don’t think he’s the only one either. It sucks but it is what it is. If you believe Wickersham’s book Bill is very aware of this perception, he feels that his legacy has an asterisk in the minds of people for that stuff and he’s trying to do anything these days to avoid any kind of violation to further add to that.

Although people now have the answer to the question of who is greater, Brady or Belichick?

People always had Montana before Walsh when it came to greatness.

Until Brady won the SB with the Bucs, it wasn't so clear if Brady was before BB. Now it is.

 

[VectorPrime]

Brady was just collateral damage from what was intended by league employees to be a sting of the Grand Belichick Deflating Conspiracy. This was gonna be the revenge from a ton of owners and officials for getting off easy on spygate. When it turned out that there was basically nothing to it, and the team made sure Belichick washed his hands of everything, the league was kind of caught with their pants down and threw Brady under the bus.

Consequently I don’t think any of the players around the league or basically anyone around the game in general honestly gives a damn about deflategate and it’ll be a small footnote to any Brady bio. Unfortunately for Belichick spygate will be much more impactful for his legacy.

 

[venecol]

Brady was just collateral damage from what was intended by league employees to be a sting of the Grand Belichick Deflating Conspiracy. This was gonna be the revenge from a ton of owners and officials for getting off easy on spygate. When it turned out that there was basically nothing to it, and the team made sure Belichick washed his hands of everything, the league was kind of caught with their pants down and threw Brady under the bus.

Consequently I don’t think any of the players around the league or basically anyone around the game in general honestly gives a damn about deflategate and it’ll be a small footnote to any Brady bio. Unfortunately for Belichick spygate will be much more impactful for his legacy.

I had never seen so many former players and announcers that were well known Brady haters, now admit they were wrong and he's the undisputed GOAT. I've even heard several say he's the mvp so far despite the narrative pushing the young guys (allen, murray, lamar). D-gate is an afterthought and more of a joke now than anything. Everyone is noticing how loose Brady is and how his personality has changed. Other fan bases are actually starting to like him. Of course, there's always haters that desperately hang on to old and dumb narratives.

 

[1960Pats]

I think the cheating narrative has significantly dropped. Winning post spygate and post deflategate changed a lot of peoples opinion.

I think Brady also going to a different team and winning a Superbowl immediately, while the Pats failed to make the playoffs also showed that Bill didn't have some secret cheating mechanism that gave him a competitive advantage.

Bill's biggest competitive advantage was having Brady. That's not a knock against Bill, Bill is still one of the GOATs and has the greatest career of all time

If Bill wasn't stuck under Tuna Crap's thumb, had a HC position as early as Shula and still had Brady for 20 years here, he would have blown them all away years ago.

 

[amfootball]

I had never seen so many former players and announcers that were well known Brady haters, now admit they were wrong and he's the undisputed GOAT. I've even heard several say he's the mvp so far despite the narrative pushing the young guys (allen, murray, lamar). D-gate is an afterthought and more of a joke now than anything. Everyone is noticing how loose Brady is and how his personality has changed. Other fan bases are actually starting to like him. Of course, there's always haters that desperately hang on to old and dumb narratives.

It pains me to say this as I never wanted Brady to ever leave the Pats, but him leaving has been the best thing for his career, his legacy, his perception in the media and among fan bases. His willingness to speak his mind has also endeared him. It is strange to think about but the Patriot Way hurt his perception a ton that I am not sure any of us realized until he left.

 

[Nehalem]

Don't want Watson.

The Pat's need to be patient and develop Mac and the offense. Rebuild this year and next. They need to do with Mac what they should have done with Brady and go all in on offense. Draft offense in 1st and 2nd round. Try to draft a star out of the box like Mike Evan's was for the Bucs. Put most of the cap on offense.

BB is a defensive genius. He can build a decent enough defense with late rounders, undrafted players, and retreads like Van Noy and Jamie Collins. Stop putting high drafts and big bucks on defense and special team. At least not for the first few years of Mac.

I take it you weren't a Patriots fan between 2010-2013

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This is the worst game to lose David against a scrambling QB. I was thinking before his injury that the Bucs would just put the Hurts on (pauses for laughter).

Now I’m not sure they can smother a scrambling QB. I think this team’s can’t lose players are Brady, Vea, David, and White. Tonight might be another one where the defense struggles.

 

[venecol]

This is the worst game to lose David against a scrambling QB. I was thinking before his injury that the Bucs would just put the Hurts on (pauses for laughter).

Now I’m not sure they can smother a scrambling QB. I think this team’s can’t lose players are Brady, Vea, David, and White. Tonight might be another one where the defense struggles.

White needs to step up. He hasn't been playing good this season.

 

[1960Pats]

They'll need Gronk for the Bears and Saints. Philly D isn't as fordimable although I am surprised they surprisingly have a good pass defense

Surprisingly, I'm surprised that you're surprised they surprisingly have a good pass defense.

 

[1960Pats]

Brady was just collateral damage from what was intended by league employees to be a sting of the Grand Belichick Deflating Conspiracy. This was gonna be the revenge from a ton of owners and officials for getting off easy on spygate. When it turned out that there was basically nothing to it, and the team made sure Belichick washed his hands of everything, the league was kind of caught with their pants down and threw Brady under the bus.

Consequently I don’t think any of the players around the league or basically anyone around the game in general honestly gives a damn about deflategate and it’ll be a small footnote to any Brady bio. Unfortunately for Belichick spygate will be much more impactful for his legacy.

If I were either Bill or Tom I'd look at it the same way I would if I were accused of cheating on my wife. If I didn't do it I wouldn't give a sh!t what people think.

 

[1960Pats]

It pains me to say this as I never wanted Brady to ever leave the Pats, but him leaving has been the best thing for his career, his legacy, his perception in the media and among fan bases. His willingness to speak his mind has also endeared him. It is strange to think about but the Patriot Way hurt his perception a ton that I am not sure any of us realized until he left.

And yet, the "Patriot Way" has helped the perception of Bill quite a bit.