OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[sb1]

Reid has his flaws as does Bill. But he's still a great coach. I remember saying in January Reid shows up on Bill's rear view mirror as GOAT coach if he won the Super Bowl and became the first coach to go back to back since Bill did it in 2003-4. Which of course is now a moot point but still.

Put Brady on a Reid team for all these years and I don't see why he wouldn't be in the GOAT conversation like Bill is now.

 

[sb1]

If Bill somehow wins a Super Bowl with this team in February with this roster, with a rookie QB- perhaps beating the Bucs in the championship game... that to me is a much louder and tangible argument that Bill is undisputed GOAT head coach than the number of rings which his all world QB won for him on the field.

 

[amfootball]

Ehhhh....I'll give you that Bill has been more successful than Reid, all things considered, but this measuring stick isn't right.

Reid made it to five NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl with Donovan McNabb. The Chiefs were a perennial playoff contender with Alex Smith. With Mahomes, he's winning at over .800 and is 6-0 in the postseason against everyone other than Tom Brady.

Look at the years before Reid in Philadelphia; they were 3-13 in 1998. In Kansas City, they were 2-14 in 2012.

Let's say Belichick only had Brady for 3 seasons and Reid had Mahomes for 19 seasons...is there any question the results would be dramatically different?

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How about John Harbaugh getting to the playoffs almost every season and winning a SB with Flacco and now getting to the playoffs every year with Lamar running a very non-traditional offense.

Also, Sean Payton is now 10-2 the last 2+ seasons without Drew Brees as his QB -went 5-0 with Bridgewater, 4-1 with Hill and currently 1-1 with Winston.

 

[amfootball]

If Bill somehow wins a Super Bowl with this team in February with this roster, with a rookie QB- perhaps beating the Bucs in the championship game... that to me is a much louder and tangible argument that Bill is undisputed GOAT head coach than the number of rings which his all world QB won for him on the field.

I think we are an 8-9 win team tops assuming Mac stays healthy all season and we don't get subjected to the Hoyer horror show again.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

Ehhhh....I'll give you that Bill has been more successful than Reid, all things considered, but this measuring stick isn't right.

Reid made it to five NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl with Donovan McNabb. The Chiefs were a perennial playoff contender with Alex Smith. With Mahomes, he's winning at over .800 and is 6-0 in the postseason against everyone other than Tom Brady.

Look at the years before Reid in Philadelphia; they were 3-13 in 1998. In Kansas City, they were 2-14 in 2012.

Let's say Belichick only had Brady for 3 seasons and Reid had Mahomes for 19 seasons...is there any question the results would be dramatically different?

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Bingo.

Reid made McNabb a borderline HOFer. He changed the culture. If you look at their rosters, they had pure thrash at receiver for most of those years. Minus a hobbled TO for one year. Their defense had Dawkins and not much else. He went to a SB and lost by 3 points to the 7 point favored Patriots.

Reid made Alex Smith a very good QB. Though Smith was good before KC. But I feel he was at his best with Reid.

Belichick had Brady for 20 years. Top five athlete of all time.

Bottom line is Andy Reid was a great coach before Mahomes. And I'd venture to say Mahomes isn't nearly as successful in Chicago. Albeit he would still be great.

Long story short, Reid has proven he can win without great rosters and an elite QB. Now that's not to say Belichick isn't a better coach. Nor that Belichick can't win without Brady. Time will tell.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

How about John Harbaugh getting to the playoffs almost every season and winning a SB with Flacco and now getting to the playoffs every year with Lamar running a very non-traditional offense.

Also, Sean Payton is now 10-2 the last 2+ seasons without Drew Brees as his QB -went 5-0 with Bridgewater, 4-1 with Hill and currently 1-1 with Winston.

Harbaugh is a great coach. Albeit he does whine alot and comes off as a sore loser at times.

I don't think he gets the credit he deserves.

I think Payton is a bit overrated. The reputation is kind of bigger than the actual results.

In otherwords, you have Brees for 15 years and get to 1 (Albeit a win) SB? Eh....

Still top 5 coach though.

Right now in no particular order:

1. Reid
2. Belichick
3. Harbaugh
4. Payton
5. McVay

 

[amfootball]

Harbaugh is a great coach. Albeit he does whine alot and comes off as a sore loser at times.

I don't think he gets the credit he deserves.

I think Payton is a bit overrated. The reputation is kind of bigger than the actual results.

In otherwords, you have Brees for 15 years and get to 1 (Albeit a win) SB? Eh....

Still top 5 coach though.

Right now in no particular order:

1. Reid
2. Belichick
3. Harbaugh
4. Payton
5. McVay

Good list. I would put Carroll in over McVay.

 

[amfootball]

Bingo.

Reid made McNabb a borderline HOFer. He changed the culture. If you look at their rosters, they had pure thrash at receiver for most of those years. Minus a hobbled TO for one year. Their defense had Dawkins and not much else. He went to a SB and lost by 3 points to the 7 point favored Patriots.

Reid made Alex Smith a very good QB. Though Smith was good before KC. But I feel he was at his best with Reid.

Belichick had Brady for 20 years. Top five athlete of all time.

Bottom line is Andy Reid was a great coach before Mahomes. And I'd venture to say Mahomes isn't nearly as successful in Chicago. Albeit he would still be great.

Long story short, Reid has proven he can win without great rosters and an elite QB. Now that's not to say Belichick isn't a better coach. Nor that Belichick can't win without Brady. Time will tell.

I wonder if Mahomes would have had some serious injuries already if he was in a place like Chicago or the Jets that literally would have just winged it with him and not developed him the way Reid has with the offense.

 

[sb1]

I think we are an 8-9 win team tops assuming Mac stays healthy all season and we don't get subjected to the Hoyer horror show again.

That is my expectation too. Anything better is a bonus. Playoffs or not I think if Mac shows that he is the guy - and it's still very possible that he is not - then if all goes well a year from now I think we can feel really good about where our team is at and I think we can contend again. And who knows maybe Bill's prospects to win #7 with us will look a lot brighter than they do now.

 

[Deus Irae]

As the Bucs prepare to face the Rams, Ronald Jones continues to hurt himself with mistakes — going out of bounds a yard early, missing a blitzing linebacker — in the Bucs’ shared backfield. “It speaks for itself,” Bruce Arians says. More here:

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Bingo.

Reid made McNabb a borderline HOFer. He changed the culture. If you look at their rosters, they had pure thrash at receiver for most of those years. Minus a hobbled TO for one year. Their defense had Dawkins and not much else. He went to a SB and lost by 3 points to the 7 point favored Patriots.

Reid made Alex Smith a very good QB. Though Smith was good before KC. But I feel he was at his best with Reid.

Belichick had Brady for 20 years. Top five athlete of all time.

Bottom line is Andy Reid was a great coach before Mahomes. And I'd venture to say Mahomes isn't nearly as successful in Chicago. Albeit he would still be great.

Long story short, Reid has proven he can win without great rosters and an elite QB. Now that's not to say Belichick isn't a better coach. Nor that Belichick can't win without Brady. Time will tell.

It is strange to me that people talk about a "system" with Belichick, even though almost every QB has failed under him. Even Testaverde, the gold standard of "the average QB who Bill can lead far" was garbage in 1994 and was the reason they weren't a real contender with the league's best defense. People want to talk about a system that's easy for the quarterback, or coaching advantage, Andy Reid really is the guy to talk about. This doesn't diminish Mahomes at all, because obviously his talent is undeniable, but it is just odd how the narrative (Belichick makes QBs; Mahomes makes Reid) is really the opposite if you look at the history of these coaches. In addition to McNabb:

• Michael Vick, straight out of jail, started for the Eagles in 2010. He had a 100.2 passer rating and was an MVP candidate throughout the season. His passing stats were by far the best of his career.

• Alex Smith, the definition of an average, middling quarterback, who is competent but can't take you to the next level, went 50-26 with the Chiefs. In 2014, Alex Smith did not throw a touchdown pass to a wide receiver, but the team still finished average in PPG. They beat the Patriots 41-14 (first of two times Smith was able to put up 40+ on the Patriots, and both times the Patriots went to the Super Bowl.)

 

[VectorPrime]

Belichick or someone in his camp may or may not have dropped Brady’s name in relation to BALCO in the upcoming book.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Belichick or someone in his camp may or may not have dropped Brady’s name in relation to BALCO in the upcoming book.

Where did you hear that? Regardless, this is nothing new....it's a 15 year old story that gets resurfaced every 5 years or so.

Brady says he never worked out with Bonds' trainer

Tom Brady was looking for a place to work out when he called Barry Bonds' personal trainer "five or six years ago" but the two never got together, the New England Patriots quarterback said Thursday.

www.espn.com

Brady dismisses BALCO link

Not surprisingly, Tom Brady <a href="http://www.masslive.com/patriots/republican/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/115588731961040.xml&coll=1" target="_blank">downplayed reports</a> that he had any kind of connection to a central figure in the BALCO steroids scandal, <i>The Republican</i> reports this...

www.masslive.com

 

[VectorPrime]

Where did you hear that?

Jimmy Stewart, who implied this 2 weeks ago as well. And it’s not ridiculous to believe he got word of some of what’s in that book. He has sources. And hundreds of people have a copy already including local reporters. They just refuse to break embargo on the record. But the details of the book aren’t some state secret known only to a few.

And yeah the Brady “link” to BALCO is public knowledge. Felger (yes your boogeyman) outright said after Jimmy mentioned this that this info has been out there from like 15 years ago and it’s not new. But a team source or god forbid Belichick saying something about it in 2021 is absolutely something that I can see Brady losing his goddamn mind over and rightfully so. Something as simple as “well at the time we were skeptical of Tom’s claims that he only contacted them for a possible workout” is a mini nuke.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bucs using all four practice squad protections again this week: K Jose Borregales, CB Pierre Desir, S Troy Warner and TE Deon Yelder.

 

[amfootball]

Jimmy Stewart, who implied this 2 weeks ago as well. And it’s not ridiculous to believe he got word of some of what’s in that book. He has sources. And hundreds of people have a copy already including local reporters. They just refuse to break embargo on the record. But the details of the book aren’t some state secret known only to a few.

And yeah the Brady “link” to BALCO is public knowledge. Felger (yes your boogeyman) outright said after Jimmy mentioned this that this info has been out there from like 15 years ago and it’s not new. But a team source or god forbid Belichick saying something about it in 2021 is absolutely something that I can see Brady losing his goddamn mind over and rightfully so. Something as simple as “well at the time we were skeptical of Tom’s claims that he only contacted them for a possible workout” is a mini nuke.

It's Wickersham. Nothing to lose sleep over from his rehash of literally every news story our local media covered ad nauseam. He just repackages with his "unnamed sources." It wouldn't surprise me if he is paying those who received advanced copies to try and goose the market. I mean there is a reason he is releasing it during the season and not the off-season. It's a nothing burger that will get buried in all the games cycles.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It's Wickersham. Nothing to lose sleep over from his rehash of literally every news story our local media covered ad nauseam. He just repackages with his "unnamed sources." It wouldn't surprise me if he is paying those who received advanced copies to try and goose the market. I mean there is a reason he is releasing it during the season and not the off-season. It's a nothing burger that will get buried in all the games cycles.

My guess is the book makes some noise in New England and no one gives a crap outside of New England. Suspicion of HGH, with no failed test or smoking gun, might be cause for a sports show talking point before fizzling out.

 

[venecol]

For a game of this magnitude, expect him to take a needle and give it a try.

We get to see more Sony this weekend.

 

[venecol]

All good points about Bill vs Reid. They also have this in common.

 

[VectorPrime]

Tom Sr doesn’t really mince words