OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Joey007]

I think this is a happy medium. No one here wants to go in and join the Bucs forum. We also don’t want the Bucs talk to be mixed into Pats conversations either.

I’ll be pulling for Tom. I’ll always pull for him. Go Bucs.

But mainly, go Pats.

 

[upstater1]

i think i get his point. Pats generally played in a weak division. had a bye every year played a "tomato can" in the divisional round usually and then the AFCCG was the real game they had to win.

even with a better roster than the pats last year, the Bucs play in a division with the Saints, Falcons and Panthers. IDK about the panthers but the saints are a superbowl contender, and Atlanta always has the ability to be one. Then you also play in the NFC which has teams like green bay and 49ers.

1. Didn't play in a weak division. Why? Because their record against the teams in the division was the same as their record against playoff teams and the same as their record against teams NOT in their division.

2. The teams in their division did not have bad records against teams NOT the Patriots. In fact, they more than held their own.

I've written this multiple times in this thread.

A lot of people other than me have written this in this thread.

Over the years, many people on this board have conducted an analysis of these issues.

These are FACTS not open to debate, unless you want to debate what is a win and what is a loss.

Here is what may be open to debate: I believe the Patriots of the last 20 years are the best football team of all time. It sucks for the Bills, Phins, and Jets that they've had to compete with the greatest team of all time. But that's their lot. If the Patriots were in a division with the Steelers, Browns, Bengals and Ravens, their record would be .750. How do I know this? Because they could dominate the Steelers, Browns and Bengals (as they have) and split with the Ravens, and that still gets them the division crown 85% of the time and also a bye in the first round.

Here's something that may also be open to debate. Winning 6 Super Bowls out of 9 over a 20 year period and getting to the AFCCG so many times I don't even know the number offhand is so unfathomably impressive and hard to do that the very idea that this was largely accomplished by going .750 against the AFCE (especially when your record against the rest of the league is .750 and your playoff record is also .750) is preposterous.

 

[upstater1]

If he had gone to the wrong NFL team he might be selling insurance today.

You seriously believe this?

There's a reason why San Francisco wanted to trade for a 39 year old prior to trading for a 25 year old.

There's a reason this guy is coveted. It's due to his own talent (and he is incredibly talented and athletically skilled).

That people like Drew Henson (who not only never cut it in the NFL but they didn't cut it in college either) are given a leg up over a guy like Brady only speaks to the intangible skills you need at that position. The most talented QB athletically of the last 30 odd years was a total washout in the NFL (Jeff George) because he couldn't handle the pressures of the position. One may think this actually reinforces your point because it's hard to know which of these guys is going to pan out. I think it actually negates your point because the guys who can do it always rise to the top no matter how horrible their situation. Can't think of a QB who could've been something but because he was put in a bad place, never became anything. Of course we don't know who those guys might be BECAUSE they never became anything but I never hear people lamenting a wasted career if only someone had been in a better place. There are guys who aren't given a chance at all (like Patriots draftee Rich Gannon) who through their own confidence and belief in themselves persevere and eventually become one of the best QBs in the league. There are guys like Jim Plunkett (also a Patriots draftee) who are put in a position where they can only fail but they push through it and eventually show the quality that many people always believed they had. Then there are guys who are told that no one wants you, you're not that good, go to Canada or an easier league, like the one in Timbuktu, if you want to be a QB because you can't cut it in the NFL, and yet after a long road, they persevere and get a small chance to move from the land of maple syrup into an NFL huddle, and they break NFL records, like Warren Moon.

Tom Brady is one of the guys who was always going to be an all-time NFL great no matter if he ended up with the Patriots or the Jax Jaguars. He wouldn't have won 6 Super Bowls but he would have won 2 or 3. Put him on that Jax team from the '18 playoffs and it's Jacksonville that walks off with the Lombardi.

Brady is worth 2 Super Bowls over 20 years on his own.
Belichick is worth 2 Super Bowls over 20 years on his own.
Belichick + Brady = 6 Super Bowls over 20 years.

 

[neuronet]

Bucs Schedule & Games on TV...

Viewers guide to Tom Brady's first season with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

A year ago at this time — or even five months ago, frankly — you’d probably be asking: what is a Boston-based sports website doing writing about the Tampa Bay Buccaneers? Of course, you know the answer to that at this point. Tom Brady joined the Buccaneers after spending 20 seasons with the New...

www.nbcsports.com

Bucs have 5 games on Prime Time TV

They are going to get discussed in detail every week. I don't know if they know what they are in for down there.

 

[patsinthesnow]

What is your confidence in Bucs +160 against the Saints week 1?

• no fans
• Bucs #1 run defense
• Can Bowles force Brees to throw down the field?
• Brady & Gronk in September. Both will be fresh.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I think this is a happy medium. No one here wants to go in and join the Bucs forum. We also don’t want the Bucs talk to be mixed into Pats conversations either.

I’ll be pulling for Tom. I’ll always pull for him. Go Bucs.

But mainly, go Pats.

Thank you.

 

[Kasmir]

You seriously believe this?

There's a reason why San Francisco wanted to trade for a 39 year old prior to trading for a 25 year old.

There's a reason this guy is coveted. It's due to his own talent (and he is incredibly talented and athletically skilled).

That people like Drew Henson (who not only never cut it in the NFL but they didn't cut it in college either) are given a leg up over a guy like Brady only speaks to the intangible skills you need at that position. The most talented QB athletically of the last 30 odd years was a total washout in the NFL (Jeff George) because he couldn't handle the pressures of the position. One may think this actually reinforces your point because it's hard to know which of these guys is going to pan out. I think it actually negates your point because the guys who can do it always rise to the top no matter how horrible their situation. Can't think of a QB who could've been something but because he was put in a bad place, never became anything. Of course we don't know who those guys might be BECAUSE they never became anything but I never hear people lamenting a wasted career if only someone had been in a better place. There are guys who aren't given a chance at all (like Patriots draftee Rich Gannon) who through their own confidence and belief in themselves persevere and eventually become one of the best QBs in the league. There are guys like Jim Plunkett (also a Patriots draftee) who are put in a position where they can only fail but they push through it and eventually show the quality that many people always believed they had. Then there are guys who are told that no one wants you, you're not that good, go to Canada or an easier league, like the one in Timbuktu, if you want to be a QB because you can't cut it in the NFL, and yet after a long road, they persevere and get a small chance to move from the land of maple syrup into an NFL huddle, and they break NFL records, like Warren Moon.

Tom Brady is one of the guys who was always going to be an all-time NFL great no matter if he ended up with the Patriots or the Jax Jaguars. He wouldn't have won 6 Super Bowls but he would have won 2 or 3. Put him on that Jax team from the '18 playoffs and it's Jacksonville that walks off with the Lombardi.

Brady is worth 2 Super Bowls over 20 years on his own.
Belichick is worth 2 Super Bowls over 20 years on his own.
Belichick + Brady = 6 Super Bowls over 20 years.

I agree with you as to how great Brady is, but it's a fact that in 2000 no one in the NFL believed in that potential. Even on the Pats he was the 4th QB after his first training camp. He wasn't given a fair shot until 2001. Do I believe that NFL coaches and GM's could have continued their belief that he wasn't an NFL QB in 2000? Absolutely -- because of confirmation bias -- as a 6th round pick he might never have gotten a chance.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

They've got a lot of front line talent. Depth, chemistry, and belief are going to be the questions.

Agree. Brady would probably add "timing."

 

[upstater1]

I agree with you as to how great Brady is, but it's a fact that in 2000 no one in the NFL believed in that potential. Even on the Pats he was the 4th QB after his first training camp. He wasn't given a fair shot until 2001. Do I believe that NFL coaches and GM's could have continued their belief that he wasn't an NFL QB in 2000? Absolutely -- because of confirmation bias -- as a 6th round pick he might never have gotten a chance.

But this is totally irrelevant. There are lots of Hall of Famers who sat the bench their first years. He took over from the second greatest QB in the Patriots history, from a guy who has Hall of Fame numbers. He took over in his second year. THat's fast, and even though it happened after an injury, Brady kept that job when Bledsoe was fully healthy. Like I said, you can not be aware of how good a guy is when he comes into the league, and you can overrate people too, but Brady showed how good he was in his second year, which is very fast actually for a 6th rounder. Madden said it: "I have goosebumps seeing what Brady just did." Brady had it in him in a way that Bledsoe--as good as he was--didn't.

You're not going to keep guys like Brady, Warren Moon, Rich Gannon, Roger Staubach, or Kurt Warner down. None of these guys were given a chance. Heck, Joe Montana was a late 3rd rounder!!

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Before you all get enamored with the Buccaneers be mindful of what Arians has accomplished in 7 years in the NFL as a HC...

56W 39L in the regular season
1 W 2L in the post season..

Not much evidence whether he is a good coach or a jag....

I dunno. Coach of the year twice. The only season you might knock him for is 2015 when he had all the weapons, but got blown out by Cam in the NFCCG. Until last season, he and Andy Reid, IMHO, were the best two HC's never to have won an SB (and, yes, I know he was "retired" last season).

 

[Zarozzor]

I dunno. Coach of the year twice. The only season you might knock him for is 2015 when he had all the weapons, but got blown out by Cam in the NFCCG. Until last season, he and Andy Reid, IMHO, were the best two HC's never to have won an SB (and, yes, I know he was "retired" last season).

Didn’t Palmer break his throwing hand or thumb in week 16 that season? I remember him looking average against Green Bay, then imploding against Carolina

 

[1960Pats]

Brady without Belichick: platooned with Drew Henson at Michigan and was so universally disrespected that he almost went undrafted.

Crazy ho can be.

If he had gone to the wrong NFL team he might be selling insurance today.

This year will of course be telling. No excuses for Brady or Belichick. We'll see.

Brady is the GOAT, but I root for Belichick because he's still with the team I've followed for 50+ years.

I also root for Belichick and I've been a Pats fan for 60 years, but that has nothing to do with the issue. We KNOW that Belichick has been an average HC without Brady. I have a feeling that Brady will be better than average, even at 43.

As for Brady in college, I don't follow the NCAA, but my impression is that Brady came through for Michigan and Henson didn't.

Which brings us to the thing I like most about Belichick. Unlike Brady's college coach, Belichick doesn't go by the circumstances when he decides who plays. He goes by results. That's why he got rid of a very popular QB to let the "less talented" QB get the job.

Apparently, **** Rehbein knew that Brady was special even if Belichick didn't know until later.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Before you all get enamored with the Buccaneers be mindful of what Arians has accomplished in 7 years in the NFL as a HC...

56W 39L in the regular season
1 W 2L in the post season..

Not much evidence whether he is a good coach or a jag....

It's ok. Add the GOAT and everything gets better.

Look at Andy Reid. He never got over the playoffs hump until he got paired up with Patrick Mahomes.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

Bucs 19-0 baby

 

[Boomer B]

Tompa and Gronk will find out quickly that playing in a real NFL division instead of the Jets Bills and Dolphins 2X a year is a lot harder than it looks.

7-9

We all know how you feel about Brady. Do you really need to come into a thread about Brady and the Bucs and sh*t all over it?

 

[Boomer B]

Merely speaking for myself, this irritates me. I guess if this keeps Tampa **** from popping up all over the board and keeps it in one area, it would be the lesser of two evils and not that big of a deal. On the flip side, I just don’t see why everyone interested in following can’t just follow them on their boards and leave ours to the Patriots.

Brady was with us for 20 years, won 6 SBs, and is the GOAT. You really think a lot of us are just gonna turn off how we feel about him? That’s pretty unrealistic. I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I can also cheer for the Pats and Brady at the same time.

 

[DarrylS]

It's ok. Add the GOAT and everything gets better.

Look at Andy Reid. He never got over the playoffs hump until he got paired up with Patrick Mahomes.

Reid has a 15 & 14 record in the playoffs..
Overall record 207 & 128
Reid was HC when the Pats Beat Philadelphia in '04, worse clock management I have ever seen on that level of competition.

While Brady is the goat it remains to be seen how he does at age 43...

 

[PatsBoy12]

 

[PatsBoy12]

 

[PatsBoy12]