OT: Lamar Jackson

[fightingirish595]

The claim “running QBs Get hurt more than non running QBs” =/= “Running QBs have shorter careers than non running QBs”.

2 different claims

also how do we operationalize “running QBs”?

 

[Ring 6]

Your framing of the question is characteristically stupid. There is no QB in the NFL who keeps it themselves more than they hand it off. Even Jackson runs it himself on average about 10 times per game once you subtract out kneel downs. Those carries just happen to be monumentally positive.

Otherwise, the number of "running QBs" nowadays is vastly higher than it was in the past. QBs get hurt. QBs have always gotten hurt. Tom Brady had missed 15 more games at the same age than Russell Wilson has.

There's certainly some additional risk for QBs who are exposed to more hits, but the role that taking hits plays in terms of major injuries is always vastly overstated by fans.

I didn’t say they keep it themselves MORE THAN HANDING OFF . If they keep it 50 times they have 50 more opportunities to get injured than the QBs who hands it off.

The argument wasn’t that running QBs get hurt and passing QBs don’t. The argument is that a running qb is more susceptible to injury.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

When people talk about "running" QBs I often wonder what they're really saying

You know damm well 95% of this place doesn't know wtf they're talking abt.

Don't trigger me

 

[primetime]

Watching AndyJohnson still desperately grasping at straws to justify his pre-draft opinions about Lamar Jackson, which are at this point provably stupid by historical record, is pretty hilarious. Hey Ring6 I bet you can will Lamar Jackson into an injury through your posting dude!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I didn’t say they keep it themselves MORE THAN HANDING OFF . If they keep it 50 times they have 50 more opportunities to get injured than the QBs who hands it off.

The argument wasn’t that running QBs get hurt and passing QBs don’t. The argument is that a running qb is more susceptible to injury.

I've posted multiple studies that show there's no difference.

Do you have anything to back up your claim? Anything at all?

 

[Ring 6]

Lamar jackson will last a long time if he can throw the ball and continue to progress as a passer.

RG3 fizzled out because it turned out he wasn’t very good when he couldn’t run anymore

Very few QBs who rely on running are able to still rely on running in their 30s do they have to develop the pocket skills to remain effective. Look at Newton. He’s barely backup quality if he can’t run.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Watching AndyJohnson still desperately grasping at straws to justify his pre-draft opinions about Lamar Jackson, which are at this point provably stupid by historical record, is pretty hilarious. Hey Ring6 I bet you can will Lamar Jackson into an injury through your posting dude!

I bumped a thread the other day w some gold material. We need a Lamar Jackson crow thread.

The **** said abt him was wild.

 

[primetime]

Very few QBs who rely on running are able to still rely on running in their 30s do they have to develop the pocket skills to remain effective. Look at Newton. He’s barely backup quality if he can’t run.

One more post I think and Lamar Jackson will be both bad and hurt. You can do it! We need you!

 

[Ring 6]

I've posted multiple studies that show there's no difference.

Do you have anything to back up your claim? Anything at all?

It is impossible that you posted a study that says a qb who runs running plays is no more susceptible to injury than a qb who doesn’t run running plays. That would only be possible if no QB has ever been injured while running a running play and we know that’s not the case. Evidently it happened to Lamar Jackson yesterday.
I’m sure you posted something but it doesn’t say what you are claiming, because it literally can’t.

 

[Ring 6]

One more post I think and Lamar Jackson will be both bad and hurt. You can do it! We need you!

It has nothing to do with Lamar Jackson.
It has to do with the incontrovertible fact that if a qb runs the ball himself he is more likely to get injured than if he hands the ball off.
That is all I have said. You cannot dispute that. It has nothing to do with whether a running QBs can be better than a passing QB.
It simply has to do with the iron clad fact they if you use your qb in the running game you are closing him to a greater risk of injury.
How can this even be a debate.

 

[primetime]

It is imo possible that you posted a study that says a ab who runs running plays is no more susceptible to injury than a ab who doesn’t run running plays. That would only be possible if no QB has ever been injured while running a running play and we know that’s not the case. Evidently it happened to Lamar Jackson yesterday.
I’m sure you posted something but it doesn’t say what you are claiming, because it literally can’t.

Uh, it's very easy to show such a thing statistically. Like, undergrad level regression modeling is able to do this very easily. If the probability of injury on a given play is statistically indiscernible for any play a QB participates in, regardless of what he does on that play, then there's no additional risk from a QB carrying the ball. Which is, you know, exactly what those studies BGC posted showed. We can even control for field condition and such! Amazing what's possible with math!

It might help if your education in statistics went beyond a Wikipedia skim of the gambler's fallacy with coin flips.

 

[Ring 6]

Uh, it's very easy to show such a thing statistically. If the probability of injury on a given play is statistically the same for any play a QB participates in, regardless of what he does on that play, then there's no additional risk from a QB carrying the ball. Which is, you know, exactly what those studies BGC posted showed.

It might help if your education in statistics went beyond a Wikipedia skim of the gambler's fallacy with coin flips.

So you are telling me that if team uses a running game where the QB only hands off and another team uses a ruining game that includes the QBs running the ball
On a number of those plays you think that both QBs have an equal chance of getting injured on a running play?
The qb running with the ball has the exact same chance of injury on that play as the one who handed off?

My statistical examples were to show the ignorance of your argument. If your education in statistics doesn’t go beyond “here are 3 guys, 2 of which didn’t get hurt much so that proves the odds of not getting hurt” this would have been a different discussion

 

[primetime]

So you are telling me that if team uses a running game where the QB only hands off and another team uses a ruining game that includes the QBs running the ball
On a number of those plays you think that both QBs have an equal chance of getting injured on a running play?
The qb running with the ball has the exact same chance of injury on that play as the one who handed off?

Yes, dipshit, that's exactly what I'm telling you. Adding additional carries does not statistically increase a quarterback's probability of injury in a game. Your hypothesis is not empirically supported, in other words.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, dipshit, that's exactly what I'm telling you. Adding additional carries does not statistically increase a quarterback's probability of injury in a game.

And that is 100% wrong. Only an idiot would think that the QB who is running with the football has an equal chance of being injured as he would if he handed it off.

Riddle me this

Which is greater?
The total number of injuries sustained by a QB while carrying the ball on a running play, or the total number of QBs injured when handing off?

clearly you have no concept of statistics.

 

[203Pat]

When people talk about "running" QBs I often wonder what they're really saying

#staywoke

 

[Ring 6]

Uh, it's very easy to show such a thing statistically. Like, undergrad level regression modeling is able to do this very easily. If the probability of injury on a given play is statistically indiscernible for any play a QB participates in, regardless of what he does on that play, then there's no additional risk from a QB carrying the ball. Which is, you know, exactly what those studies BGC posted showed. We can even control for field condition and such! Amazing what's possible with math!

It might help if your education in statistics went beyond a Wikipedia skim of the gambler's fallacy with coin flips.

And the studies he posted didn’t say that. They said the additional risk of being injured appears to be less than thought. Hence, there is still a greater chance just not as high as the presumption they worked from

 

[Ring 6]

I guess running backs never get injured since running with the football causes zero more injuries ever than handing it off and watching the runner run.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Are running quarterbacks more likely to get hurt?

Injury proneness of running QBs like Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson is ...

Injury Proneness of Running QBs is Overstated | Football Outsiders

 

[Ring 6]

If you want to make the argument that mobile QBs may not get injured more than immobile QBs because the immobile ab can get injured in the pocket while the mobile qb can escape it could be a very interesting study.

But it is ignorant to try to say that using your QB as part of your running game doesn’t expose him to an additional risk of injury.

For that to be true you would have to show that no QB was ever injured while running on a run play.

 

[Ring 6]

Are running quarterbacks more likely to get hurt?

Injury proneness of running QBs like Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson is ...

Injury Proneness of Running QBs is Overstated | Football Outsiders

From YOUR source.

It’s not entirely scientific, though. Research on NFL quarterback injuries compiled by injury coordinator John Verros at Sports Info Solutions shows the risk of a quarterback being injured on a designed run is remote — only one for every 236 plays.

A qb who runs gets injured once every 236 plays. A QB who hands off gets injured 0 of every 236 plays.

Of course depending upon how they quantify injury that could be a big understatement. The pounding taken by running adds up in minor injuries that surely aren’t counted in that number and will impact the effectiveness of the QB doing his primary job, throwing the ball.