OT: Did the Bucs SB loss Break Patrick Mahomes?

[SHOWTIME15]

I don't think Montana is the equivalent of Bradshaw - the comparison was only to the point of being able to keep a roster together for years and years back then.

Through draft and trade, the dynasty teams of the 70's, 80's, 90's had rosters that were absolutely stacked - the QB was nowhere near as dominant as they are now with the new rules. Different game.

Montana is #2 on my list if I go top 10. Bradshaw isn't on it.

Alright, I see what you're saying. If I'm building a franchise, I would take Brady at QB over anyone. If I need a QB to win the super bowl tomorrow, and both are in their primes, I would flip a coin between Montana and Brady. No other QBs come into the discussion.

 

[Guts]

Did they take the same hits?

What did Montanas defenses look like?

Name three receivers beyond Jerry rice.

No but the defenders today are stronger and faster.

You can't really say name three receivers other than Rice because Rice is considered a top 3 Player of all time(not just the WR position). But to entertain you he had Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, and John Taylor. Other than Solomon, Clark and Taylor were pro bowlers.

We can't forget the RB Craig either a HOF snubbed player in his own right.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

No but the defenders today are stronger and faster.

You can't really say name three receivers other than Rice because Rice is considered a top 3 Player of all time(not just the WR position). But to entertain you he had Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, and John Taylor. Other than Solomon, Clark and Taylor were pro bowlers.

We can't forget the RB Craig either a HOF snubbed player in his own right.

Craig was good, especially in 1985, but I don't know if I'd put him over Payton, ****erson, Dorsett, or Allen

 

[Guts]

Craig was good, especially in 1985, but I don't know if I'd put him over Payton, ****erson, Dorsett, or Allen

I would debate Dorsett the other 3 nah.

 

[‘Mondre]

No but the defenders today are stronger and faster.

You can't really say name three receivers other than Rice because Rice is considered a top 3 Player of all time(not just the WR position). But to entertain you he had Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, and John Taylor. Other than Solomon, Clark and Taylor were pro bowlers.

We can't forget the RB Craig either a HOF snubbed player in his own right.

Impossible to compare. Brady had stacked teams tho. Brady also had an all time great receiver and won nothing with him.

 

[tasmlab]

The Chiefs have multiple Patsfans threads on their demise, but going to the AFCCG four years running, winning twice and only losing at the last moment in overtime twice sounds like a pretty successful NFL football team. (I understand the Brady/Pats have done historically better)

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The Chiefs have multiple Patsfans threads on their demise, but going to the AFCCG four years running, winning twice and only losing at the last moment in overtime twice sounds like a pretty successful NFL football team. (I understand the Brady/Pats have done historically better)

Chiefs are not as successful as they could be because of coaching. If BB were their coach instead of Reid, they'd have at least 2-3 rings in the Mahomes era so far. Mahomes' problems on the field to me are just coaching issues that should be corrected.

 

[Lavictoire]

Why not?

Both had 4 super bowls in their first 16 years. Montana's career was cut short due to injuries, while Brady had the gift of longevity in the NFL. Plus Montana played under center his entire career and rarely ever went into the shotgun like Brady often did, which allows a QB to get the ball off faster. Montana was 4-0 in super bowls and never threw an INT in the big game. He really was very special. To me they are the same.

Brady's longevity was not a lucky gift but hard work at maintaining his health.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady's longevity was not a lucky gift but hard work at maintaining his health.

For sure. But he was also fortunate enough to meet Alex Guerrero, who probably extended his NFL career by 5-6 years. This is the main reason I would take Brady over Montana to start a franchise with - you can count on him to play 20+years, whereas Montana was more injury prone.

 

[Ivan]

I have been reading ChiefsPlanet since Sunday's game because it has been so delicious and I came across this gem of a thread. The OP wonders if the Bucs SB is when Patrick's game took a step back given his struggles this season culminating with a complete collapse in the second half to the Bengals. What say you? I mean this would not be the first time Brady and his team broke a QB and its franchise.

Here are a few snippets:

From my end I think this year was hard because of a few things and you can probably go back to last years Super Bowl to start it all ... here is why from the Superbowl vs. Bucs to now that I've been brought way down and I'm sure a lot of fans feel very similar.

He does not look like the guy we had in 2018, guy looked fearless and fired up and never lost a game by more than 8 points even with a porous defense. Even with the picks that year was one of the best "eye test" seasons I have ever seen of a QB on any team at any time.

2020, The Super bowl, when he got killed ( I get the Oline) etc although he made some crazy throws that no one could make he seemed "real" for the first time. We got smoked and he wasn't really a game, I think many of us put Mahomes in that "super hero" mold and that game seemed to break him.

2021 Stats wise people will say this was his worst year but I think this year was just "different". The entire year he looked different than 2018 and 2019, long were the days where he was just spinning it and going down the field, we got smoked by the Bills at home, we got complexly stomped by the titans, this NEVER happened in the first two years or first two year and 2020 leading up to the super bowl. But you could see something was wrong. Again I don't know what it was or what changed and it could be that he has just cracked, I really don't know but he isn't the same quarterback we had in 2018 and 2019.

Here is why I'm a bit Melancholy about Mahomes, in 2018 and 2019 he looked like a cheat code on video games, like he was "way better" than any quarterback we had ever seen in the NFL. I couldn't even think of a comparison in those years, I mean we never lost by more than 8 in two years, that's crazy! Now he still looks good but nothing like those first two years, he isn't as firery, he doesn't seem to have that chip and just kinda does what he does but is must more timid.

Here is where it hurts, the Bengals are not a very good team, sure they are better than average but looking at their win vs. the titans was super fluky, truly a titan collapse vs. a Bengals earing it. But playing us at home, being up 11 at halftime with Mahomes there should of been a zero percent chance we loose the game unless Mahomes get hurt and pulled out of the game. The guy cracked, he is different now and not the 18,19 version anymore. If we had him we win that game 52-21 or something like that. He just isn't what he was and I hope its a "pressure of life kind of thing" and he is able to manage it better.

The true loss to the Bengals hurts the most because we lost to a slightly above average team that lost to the Jets and Browns twice up 11 at halftime with the best QB in football, or at least we all kinda thought that. The reason it hurt more than any other is because he looked broke, like he was a bit apathetic, I hope he figures it out.

The difference as a fan in having the "best QB to ever play the position" vs. "A good top 5 QB currently in the league" are very different.

Chiefs Mahomes and Last season - ChiefsPlanet​

Chiefs Mahomes and Last season The Lounge
www.chiefsplanet.com

Wow, some message board posters said Mahomes is broken! More stupidity.

Mahomes is a great QB, this sh.t is stupid.

 

[Ivan]

No, that Bills game still happened.

This!

 

[Lavictoire]

For sure. But he was also fortunate enough to meet Alex Guerrero, who probably extended his NFL career by 5-6 years. This is the main reason I would take Brady over Montana to start a franchise with - you can count on him to play 20+years, whereas Montana was more injury prone.

Im sure Brady was active in researching health information which led him to Guerrero. He was also smart enough to ignore mainstream medical advice and seek alternatives. I bet Montana was like most players chugging beer and inhaling fried chicken. Brady earned a longer career and that made him the GOAT over Montana.

 

[Bruins29]

Impossible to compare. Brady had stacked teams tho. Brady also had an all time great receiver and won nothing with him.

Brady won 4 SBs without one pro bowl WR,TE, or RB the years he won them

 

[Triumph]

NO

Before the half vs Cinci Reid should have pulled Mahomes with 5 seconds left and kicked the 3 points.

The Chiefs could have run the ball, but stubbornly, Reid and Mahomes wanted to throw.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady won 4 SBs without one pro bowl WR,TE, or RB the years he won them

Troy Brown was a pro bowler in 2001, Corey Dillion in 2004, and Gronk a probower/all pro in 2014 ...

In 2003, 2016, and 2018, he didn't have any pro bowlers those years he won.

And of course in 2020 he had a great collection of talent. And let's not kid ourselves - pro Bowl or no pro bowl, Edelman was awesome.

 

[Bruins29]

Troy Brown was a pro bowler in 2001, Corey Dillion in 2004, and Gronk a probower/all pro in 2014 ...

In 2003, 2016, and 2018, he didn't have any pro bowlers those years he won.

And of course in 2020 he had a great collection of talent. And let's not kid ourselves - pro Bowl or no pro bowl, Edelman was awesome.

Excuse me. 3. SBs. But 3 is still impressive

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Excuse me. 3. SBs. But 3 is still impressive

Well, in 2020, none of those Bucs WRs or Gronk made the pro bowl, but that was an impressive group of players. So technically you are right.

 

[Fixit]

Eh, never mind. Not worth it.

 

[Fixit]

Impossible to compare. Brady had stacked teams tho. Brady also had an all time great receiver and won nothing with him.

Brady had Moss for one healthy season, 2007. He was out for 2008, recovering from his ACL in 2009, and Moss was gone like four games into 2010.

 

[‘Mondre]

Brady had Moss for one healthy season, 2007. He was out for 2008, recovering from his ACL in 2009, and Moss was gone like four games into 2010.

Two seasons. Two seasons with a goat wr.