OT: Did the Bucs SB loss Break Patrick Mahomes?

[StrawHatPatriot]

He's not broken.

People REALLY HATE to admit it, but....

Those epic flashy plays are just... that. Epic flashy plays. They don't make a QB great on their own.

The reality is that Mahomes's flaws got exposed. He still lacks the ability or patience to properly disect defensive fronts and adjustments - he instead just aimlessly scrambles backwards and plays off script. He also lacks poise

He's just a suped up Brett Favre. Saying he was the BEST QB EVER was a knee jerk reaction, because we didn't see what his flaws were or how he would respond when defenses figured him out.

He was one of the strongest arms ever, and he's good at playmaking, but that alone does not make a QB the best ever, and it's something that NFL fans never seen to get.

 

[Guts]

Fine, but Brady had a lot of advantages that Montana didn't have, including having the GOAT coach for 20 years while BIll Walsh coached only Montana for 9 years. Plus there is a strong argument that Montana's NFC was much tougher than Brady 's AFC, so getting to the super bowl for the Niners was much more difficult. If we are talking most accomplished QB in NFL history, it's Brady. That speaks for itself. If we are talking about which QB I would rather have in a 2 minute situation to win the Super Bowl, I'd take either.

Bradys AFC had Peyton frigging Manning and those Steelers/ Ravens/Chargers. I would argue tougher to get through or at par with those NFC teams. We can't omit the salary cap either

 

[jdlboot14]

Also, maybe Mahomes isn't "broken", just not the god everyone prematurely anointed him to be. I HATE when TV people start calling him (or anyone) a "future hall of famer" in his 3rd year. That's so ridiculous. NO ONE can do what TB12 has done. The media swoon all over Rogers way too early too. He lived up to a HOFer stats wise, but not in the playoffs. Everyone needs to calm down on anointing everyone for everything. Like Allen or Burrow - just give it some time.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Bradys AFC had Peyton frigging Manning and those Steelers/ Ravens/Chargers. I would argue tougher to get through or at par with those NFC teams. We can't omit the salary cap either

I mean those 80s Giants, Bears, and Redskins had some of the best defenses in NFL history. Quarterbacks that Brady faced to get to the SB were probably better though. All I'm saying is on a scale of 1-10 in terms of ability, I'm giving both QBs a 10 or a near-perfect score. Both are incredibly special. In terms of accomplishments, Brady obviously wins.

 

[Rob0729]

No. Mahommes screwing up the last drive in the first half last week broke Mahomes. He played awesome up to that point. He thought he had an extra time out left and misplayed the final two plays of the half. That seemed to have gotten into his head and he imploded in the second half.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Good point. He forgot he had no time out. Kinda like TFB last year forgetting the down. At least geriatrics was Tom's excuse.

Mahomes almost single handedly LOST the AFCCG. It would have been worse had his team mates not covered his fumbles and had his first atrocious picks not been dropped.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Reid needs to go back to his roots in Philly where he emphasized the ground game to set up the pass. He is the exact opposite now. And going for it right before the half with no TO's had me...

With that being said, the Chiefs had no business losing to the Bengals, who had no business beating the Bills.

 

[50-yard-line]

Fine, but Brady had a lot of advantages that Montana didn't have, including having the GOAT coach for 20 years while BIll Walsh coached only Montana for 9 years. Plus there is a strong argument that Montana's NFC was much tougher than Brady 's AFC, so getting to the super bowl for the Niners was much more difficult. If we are talking most accomplished QB in NFL history, it's Brady. That speaks for itself. If we are talking about which QB I would rather have in a 2 minute situation to win the Super Bowl, I'd take either.

Montana was great, but he got his rings for the same reason Terry Bradshaw got his: an ungodly great roster that pretty much stayed together throughout the runs. Same with Dallas.

The way the league is structured now, the Pats run was nearly impossible, and a big part of that was having the lynchpin, Brady, sitting there.

It's hard to compare players from different eras - Marino would have owned defenses in the modern era - but in this case, you can have your opinion, sure, but nope, your case is really weak.

EDIT: How many Superbowls would Manning have had if not for Brady and BB? I don't have an answer, but I bet he'd have at least 2 or 3 more and would be in the GOAT conversation.

Like Sham running against Secretariat...

 

[PATS16N0]

Why not?

Both had 4 super bowls in their first 16 years. Montana's career was cut short due to injuries, while Brady had the gift of longevity in the NFL. Plus Montana played under center his entire career and rarely ever went into the shotgun like Brady often did, which allows a QB to get the ball off faster. Montana was 4-0 in super bowls and never threw an INT in the big game. He really was very special. To me they are the same.

Joe Montana was a great quarterback but his legend is overrated due to the lack of a salary cap. The AFC wasn’t in the NFCs league for talent. This is why Elway managed to get 3 teams to the Super Bowl that then got ****ing smashed. It wasn’t because Elway was a post-season choker. It’s because it was like the New York Yankees versus the Oakland A’s.

Montana threw 21 interceptions against playoff NFC teams. Montana’s Superbowl games were practically akin to Tom’s Divisional Rounds.

 

[PATS16N0]

“OMG Mahomes flicked a ball to someone underhand. This is the most talent in a quarterback we’ve ever seen.”

The problem isn’t that Mahomes is broken. The problem is the above media sentiment is ****ing stupid lol

 

[PATS16N0]

Brady and Montana are co-GOATS in my book

That’s because you’re a ****ing troll.

 

[Tunescribe]

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Montana was great, but he got his rings for the same reason Terry Bradshaw got his: an ungodly great roster that pretty much stayed together throughout the runs. Same with Dallas.

The way the league is structured now, the Pats run was nearly impossible, and a big part of that was having the lynchpin, Brady, sitting there.

It's hard to compare players from different eras - Marino would have owned defenses in the modern era - but in this case, you can have your opinion, sure, but nope, your case is really weak.

EDIT: How many Superbowls would Manning have had if not for Brady and BB? I don't have an answer, but I bet he'd have at least 2 or 3 more and would be in the GOAT conversation.

Like Sham running against Secretariat...

That's nonsense and either you know it or are just uninformed. Tell me, how many pro bowlers did Montana have to throw to on offense in 1981 and 1984 when he won the super bowl those years? One. And in the 1988 and 89 super bowls, he basically had Rice, Taylor, and Craig, only one of whom is in the HOF. And Montana had 11 touchdowns and 0 INTs in the playoffs in 1989 in just three games en route to the super bowl, absolutely demolishing his opponents. No QB has had an equivalent postseason since then.

When I see Brady play today, I see Joe Montana. When I see clips of Joe Montana, I see Brady. To me, they are interchangeable in terms of their overall ability. The only thing Brady has an advantage over Montana is in their total accomplishments. That's not a slight on Brady.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

That’s because you’re a ****ing troll.

Says the guy who started this thread that got locked up...

Name an act by a NFL fanbase at any time in NFL history that’s worse than turning on Tom Brady.

Literally try and imagine a fanbase that viciously turns on the greatest player/leader/quarterback in NFL history, who proudly wore their uniform for two decades, because HE was ran out of town and rejected by the ****ing organization. This isn’t a Tommy thread. It’s a You thread. I’d...

www.patsfans.com

 

[50-yard-line]

That's nonsense and either you know it or are just uninformed. Tell me, how many pro bowlers did Montana have to throw to on offense in 1981 and 1984 when he won the super bowl those years? One. And in the 1988 and 89 super bowls, he basically had Rice, Taylor, and Craig, only one of whom is in the HOF. And Montana had 11 touchdowns and 0 INTs in the playoffs in 1989 in just three games en route to the super bowl, absolutely demolishing his opponents. No QB has had an equivalent postseason since then.

When I see Brady play today, I see Joe Montana. When I see clips of Joe Montana, I see Brady. To me, they are interchangeable in terms of their overall ability. The only thing Brady has an advantage over Montana is in their total accomplishments. That's not a slight on Brady.

It's not and I'm not.

Different league, different ERA. Innovative offense that the rest of the league hadn't figured out - which year again did Roger Craig have 1000 rushing yard AND 1000 receiving yards?

Freddy Solomon didn't suck, or Dwight Clarke, or Rice...

Just looked up '81 - Montana was 14-22 for 157 yards (Anderson threw for 300 for Philly).

Look, I loved watching the guy play, but I stand by everything I said - the Pats Dynasty is easily #1 in the NFL, particularly when you add in a hard cap and the draft orders. And it was QB'd by the GOAT through several iterations. That's what distinguishes it, and by extension, distinguishes he one non-interchangeable cog in the machine (even though Young picked up right where Montana left off). That's why Brady's the GOAT - but I say that, again, with the sincere reservation that comparing players from different ERAs is a difficult task.

 

[Vindicate]

Nah. It's just really hard to win through and through in the NFL. Also, The Bengals are a very good team and in great position to keep it going.

I know we, as Patriots fans, often get hit with "stop comparing QBNAMEHERE to Brady, it's silly" - because it's true - it is borderline impossible to accomplish what he did with the Patriots then Bucs.

But it also broke the barometer for the rest of the league. Teams that get close immediately start up dynasty talk. QB's that look hot immediately get their success compared to Brady's, and that's really dumb. Because when they fall short, they're suddenly broken.

Mahomes is not broken. He's incredible. He has weaknesses, yeah. But he is a great QB. He just isn't Brady. Going to the post-season time and time again, winning an SB, and then making it to the SB again, and then the AFC Championship is the mark of an incredibly talented QB with a strong roster. If losing the AFC championship is broken, then holysh*t, what do we call every other QB not named Brady or Mahomes?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

It's not and I'm not.

Different league, different ERA. Innovative offense that the rest of the league hadn't figured out - which year again did Roger Craig have 1000 rushing yard AND 1000 receiving yards?

Freddy Solomon didn't suck, or Dwight Clarke, or Rice...

Just looked up '81 - Montana was 14-22 for 157 yards (Anderson threw for 300 for Philly).

Look, I loved watching the guy play, but I stand by everything I said - the Pats Dynasty is easily #1 in the NFL, particularly when you add in a hard cap and the draft orders. And it was QB'd by the GOAT through several iterations. That's what distinguishes it, and by extension, distinguishes he one non-interchangeable cog in the machine (even though Young picked up right where Montana left off). That's why Brady's the GOAT - but I say that, again, with the sincere reservation that comparing players from different ERAs is a difficult task.

I didn't say Freddy Solomon or Dwight Clark sucked...but they are not Evans, Gronk, Godwin, Moss, or Brown. Really the only player Montana played with that is comparable to the receiving weapons Brady in Tampa/NE had is Rice.

In 1981, the Niners didn't play Philly in the SB. If you are talking about Ken Anderson of the Bengals, he was the MVP that year. In both of their first super bowls, Brady and Montana had pedestrian numbers but got the job done. Brady was 16 for 27, 1 TD, 145 yards - basically the same as Montana in Super bowl 16.

And yes, I agree. The Pats dynasty is the number 1 dynasty in the NFL followed by the 80s Niners.

But I disagree with you vehemently that Montana was the equivalent of Bradshaw. At worst, Montana is the number 2 or 3 best QB of all time. I don't know if Bradshaw even cracks the top 10 list.

 

[50-yard-line]

I didn't say Freddy Solomon or Dwight Clark sucked...but they are not Evans, Gronk, Godwin, Moss, or Brown. Really the only player Montana played with that is comparable to the receiving weapons Brady in Tampa/NE had is Rice.

In 1981, the Niners didn't play Philly in the SB. If you are talking about Ken Anderson of the Bengals, he was the MVP that year. In both of their first super bowls, Brady and Montana had pedestrian numbers but got the job done. Brady was 16 for 27, 1 TD, 145 yards - basically the same as Montana in Super bowl 16.

And yes, I agree. The Pats dynasty is the number 1 dynasty in the NFL followed by the 80s Niners.

But I disagree with you vehemently that Montana was the equivalent of Bradshaw. At worst, Montana is the number 2 or 3 best QB of all time. I don't know if Bradshaw even cracks the top 10 list.

I don't think Montana is the equivalent of Bradshaw - the comparison was only to the point of being able to keep a roster together for years and years back then.

Through draft and trade, the dynasty teams of the 70's, 80's, 90's had rosters that were absolutely stacked - the QB was nowhere near as dominant as they are now with the new rules. Different game.

Montana is #2 on my list if I go top 10. Bradshaw isn't on it.

 

[‘Mondre]

Did they take the same hits?

What did Montanas defenses look like?

Name three receivers beyond Jerry rice.

 

[‘Mondre]

I really don’t even like mahommes as a person but the crab in a bucket mentality hopping for him to fail from the pats fans… when you literally slobber over an inferior qb IN YOUR DIVISION makes me wanna see him shut you up.

He’s physically gifted. It doesn’t have to be him vs Brady either. Two completely different styles of play.