OT: Did the Bucs SB loss Break Patrick Mahomes?

[Pape]

I have been reading ChiefsPlanet since Sunday's game because it has been so delicious and I came across this gem of a thread. The OP wonders if the Bucs SB is when Patrick's game took a step back given his struggles this season culminating with a complete collapse in the second half to the Bengals. What say you? I mean this would not be the first time Brady and his team broke a QB and its franchise.

Here are a few snippets:

From my end I think this year was hard because of a few things and you can probably go back to last years Super Bowl to start it all ... here is why from the Superbowl vs. Bucs to now that I've been brought way down and I'm sure a lot of fans feel very similar.

He does not look like the guy we had in 2018, guy looked fearless and fired up and never lost a game by more than 8 points even with a porous defense. Even with the picks that year was one of the best "eye test" seasons I have ever seen of a QB on any team at any time.

2020, The Super bowl, when he got killed ( I get the Oline) etc although he made some crazy throws that no one could make he seemed "real" for the first time. We got smoked and he wasn't really a game, I think many of us put Mahomes in that "super hero" mold and that game seemed to break him.

2021 Stats wise people will say this was his worst year but I think this year was just "different". The entire year he looked different than 2018 and 2019, long were the days where he was just spinning it and going down the field, we got smoked by the Bills at home, we got complexly stomped by the titans, this NEVER happened in the first two years or first two year and 2020 leading up to the super bowl. But you could see something was wrong. Again I don't know what it was or what changed and it could be that he has just cracked, I really don't know but he isn't the same quarterback we had in 2018 and 2019.

Here is why I'm a bit Melancholy about Mahomes, in 2018 and 2019 he looked like a cheat code on video games, like he was "way better" than any quarterback we had ever seen in the NFL. I couldn't even think of a comparison in those years, I mean we never lost by more than 8 in two years, that's crazy! Now he still looks good but nothing like those first two years, he isn't as firery, he doesn't seem to have that chip and just kinda does what he does but is must more timid.

Here is where it hurts, the Bengals are not a very good team, sure they are better than average but looking at their win vs. the titans was super fluky, truly a titan collapse vs. a Bengals earing it. But playing us at home, being up 11 at halftime with Mahomes there should of been a zero percent chance we loose the game unless Mahomes get hurt and pulled out of the game. The guy cracked, he is different now and not the 18,19 version anymore. If we had him we win that game 52-21 or something like that. He just isn't what he was and I hope its a "pressure of life kind of thing" and he is able to manage it better.

The true loss to the Bengals hurts the most because we lost to a slightly above average team that lost to the Jets and Browns twice up 11 at halftime with the best QB in football, or at least we all kinda thought that. The reason it hurt more than any other is because he looked broke, like he was a bit apathetic, I hope he figures it out.

The difference as a fan in having the "best QB to ever play the position" vs. "A good top 5 QB currently in the league" are very different.

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no.

only Patriot Super Bowl losses break teams.

No one cares enough about the bucks that it becomes an issue that eats away at their mind, slowly gnawing its way thru their subconscious, devouring their soul until there is nothing left but a dead, dry husk.

.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

This is a great point. With one Super bowl win and two appearances, Mahomes already has a better trophy shelf than 99.999% of the QBs who have ever played, and one on par with at least half of the QBs in the Hall of Fame. Marino made it to one Super Bowl and lost it. Rodgers won one and hasn't been back since, same with Brees. The second best QB that played for a large chunk during Brady's career (Peyton) has two rings and has a Super Bowl loss equally as bad (arguably worse given he theoretically had a functioning OL that day) as the one Mahomes had against the Bucs. The standard for typical great QB play is much lower than what Brady did.

OK I'm all in with that but WTF happened to him in his last game?

End of half with a good lead but no TOs and 1st and goal he fails to get it into the EZ on 3 passes then on 4th down eschewing 3 points, the OC or Mahomes, dunno who, has him throw a pass out on the flat to a guy behind the LOS who gets tackled. The player was going towards the sideline and had zero velocity vector towards the EZ. Physics of momentum always rules and he was an easy takedown. If that wasn't his call a great QB should have checked down and gone desperation into the EZ. Maybe get a tick tac penalty if incomplete.

Leads team to no TD drives in 3rd or 4th QTR as Bengals make a comeback. Asleep at the switch.

End of game at 4th QTR in Red Zone he reverts to his fanboi loving spin dizzy moves and loses yardage. Again he gets sacked 17 yds behind the LOS and worse yet fumbles only to have that game losing play saved by Joe freakin' Thuney's fumble recovery. Photos show targets wide open in the EZ. Why not throw instead of spinning around hair on fire? WTF?

Then in OT he turns into Drew Bledsoe who in the Pats 1st SB run vs Squealers throws a ball directly into the chest & hands of a defensive player. Saved from goathood again by a drop of an easy pick (pick 6?) as we we again see why some players play defense and not offense.

Finally he does throw a ball that gets intercepted giving the Bengals, the freakin' BENGALS, possession for the game winning drive.

Something is truly broken in Mahomes.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Why not?

Both had 4 super bowls in their first 16 years. Montana's career was cut short due to injuries, while Brady had the gift of longevity in the NFL. Plus Montana played under center his entire career and rarely ever went into the shotgun like Brady often did, which allows a QB to get the ball off faster. Montana was 4-0 in super bowls and never threw an INT in the big game. He really was very special. To me they are the same.

 

[Hyped]

The Chiefs are only: Mahomes, Hill, Kelce, Tunney, Chris Jones, and Honey Badger…..

The rest of the roster needs to be upgraded, IMO.

And believe it or not, I believe Mahomes still is developing….I mean he needs to make plays from the pocket far more often and go through his progressions slower. When I watched him…looked like he was progressing from option 1-3 too fast…then scrambling out of the pocket. The problem with scrambling out of the pocket is that it cuts down your options by half….good for a rookie QB, but Mahomes needs to stress the defense sideline to sideline with all of his options, IMO. And a running game would help a lot to set up play actions….

The Chiefs will still be a force as long as Mahomes, Hill, and Kelce are healthy….many teams do not even have more than one weapon…much less three…that good offensively.

 

[Pape]

Brady and Montana are co-GOATS in my book

No.

Thats wrong, and you know it. Joe knows it. Everybody knows it.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

No.

Thats wrong, and you know it. Joe knows it. Everybody knows it.

I explained my reasoning above. Feel free to disagree with it, but it's just my opinion on the topic.

 

[Sicilian]

OK I'm all in with that but WTF happened to him in his last game?

End of half with a good lead but no TOs and 1st and goal he fails to get it into the EZ on 3 passes then on 4th down eschewing 3 points, the OC or Mahomes, dunno who, has him throw a pass out on the flat to a guy behind the LOS who gets tackled. The player was going towards the sideline and had zero velocity vector towards the EZ. Physics of momentum always rules and he was an easy takedown. If that wasn't his call a great QB should have checked down and gone desperation into the EZ. Maybe get a tick tac penalty if incomplete.

Leads team to no TD drives in 3rd or 4th QTR as Bengals make a comeback. Asleep at the switch.

End of game at 4th QTR in Red Zone he reverts to his fanboi loving spin dizzy moves and loses yardage. Again he gets sacked 17 yds behind the LOS and worse yet fumbles only to have that game losing play saved by Joe freakin' Thuney's fumble recovery. Photos show targets wide open in the EZ. Why not throw instead of spinning around hair on fire? WTF?

Then in OT he turns into Drew Bledsoe who in the Pats 1st SB run vs Squealers throws a ball directly into the chest & hands of a defensive player. Saved from goathood again by a drop of an easy pick (pick 6?) as we we again see why some players play defense and not offense.

Finally he does throw a ball that gets intercepted giving the Bengals, the freakin' BENGALS, possession for the game winning drive.

Something is truly broken in Mahomes.

It was a bad game (or at least bad half) for him, no doubt about it. But what happened to Joe Montana in these back to back 1-and-dones:



Bear in mind this is after Joe is already a two time champion, and he would go on to win two more after these. Great players have bad games, sometimes in big moments. Brady had some bad playoff games too, he just had fewer (and played longer) than anyone else. That's part of what separated him from the other greats. But assuming that Mahomes is "broken" because he looked bad for a half is premature. And I don't even want to argue that he'll get to Montana's level. Like I said, there are plenty of QB's who won one early in their career and never did again. He needs to prove he's in the next echelon up, but his game against the Bengals doesn't prove anything on it's own.

 

[Pape]

I explained my reasoning above. Feel free to disagree with it, but it's just my opinion on the topic.

i know.

I get it.

But that's like saying Carlton Fisk (my most favorite red sox player ever) is the best catcher in MLB because he hit the most doubles.

Toms retired. We can welcome him back to the fold, even if he did sh⫯t on the front mat on his way back thru the door because hes a passive aggressive nancyboy at times

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Thanks Sicilian. I was just told that Joe never threw pics in big games. EVERY post season game is a big game.
And yes, TFB threw his share of picks. But his body of Post Season work is on another whole level.

Disclosure: Never argue with a Sicilian if you want to live or at least walk w/o a limp.

 

[XLIX]

It was a bad game (or at least bad half) for him, no doubt about it. But what happened to Joe Montana in these back to back 1-and-dones:

View attachment 40812

Bear in mind this is after Joe is already a two time champion, and he would go on to win two more after these. Great players have bad games, sometimes in big moments. Brady had some bad playoff games too, he just had fewer (and played longer) than anyone else. That's part of what separated him from the other greats. But assuming that Mahomes is "broken" because he looked bad for a half is premature. And I don't even want to argue that he'll get to Montana's level. Like I said, there are plenty of QB's who won one early in their career and never did again. He needs to prove he's in the next echelon up, but his game against the Bengals doesn't prove anything on it's own.

That top stat line was the Jim Burt game. Montana may have been conscious when he threw the pass, but he sure wasn't when LT ran it into the end zone.

 

[jdlboot14]

Joe had overall better offense (pure talent equivalent in era) to work with than much of Brady's years with Pats.
Tom's SB losses came down to:
07 - injured/old OL and weak run game
11 - no Gronk
17 - weak secondary (benching Butler)

 

[Zarozzor]

Why not?

Both had 4 super bowls in their first 16 years. Montana's career was cut short due to injuries, while Brady had the gift of longevity in the NFL. Plus Montana played under center his entire career and rarely ever went into the shotgun like Brady often did, which allows a QB to get the ball off faster. Montana was 4-0 in super bowls and never threw an INT in the big game. He really was very special. To me they are the same.

4-0 being better or equal to 7-3 might be the dumbest argument in sports. I also didn’t know longevity where the player is still playing at an elite level late in his career was a negative. To borrow from another sport, this isn’t Pete Rose or Albert Pujols “longevity”

 

[SHOWTIME15]

i know.

I get it.

But that's like saying Carlton Fisk (my most favorite red sox player ever) is the best catcher in MLB because he hit the most doubles.

Toms retired. We can welcome him back to the fold, even if he did **** on the front mat on his way back thru the door.

Fine, but Brady had a lot of advantages that Montana didn't have, including having the GOAT coach for 20 years while BIll Walsh coached only Montana for 9 years. Plus there is a strong argument that Montana's NFC was much tougher than Brady 's AFC, so getting to the super bowl for the Niners was much more difficult. If we are talking most accomplished QB in NFL history, it's Brady. That speaks for itself. If we are talking about which QB I would rather have in a 2 minute situation to win the Super Bowl, I'd take either.

 

[amfootball]

The weight on a QBs shoulders to try to approach Brady is like an albatross. It's not just about the winning but also the organization too. Not sure how much the Chiefs will be able to surround Mahomes with competitive teams especially when you take into account his massive contract. Even Chiefs were saying that if he does not want to go the route of Peyton, Brees and Favre then he has to take less money. Too late.

 

[palialka]

Teams have figured out the schemes and tendencies of the Chiefs offense. I think Tampa’s SB defense was the blueprint. I’m not sure if KC will be able to modify their offense; Reid doesn’t have a successful track record of that.

The Chiefs need to find a consistent running attack to balance out their O. It’s great having talents like Mahomes, Hill and Kelce and those guys can beat most teams, but they’ll continue to struggle against top talent if they don’t make some strategic changes. Their salary cap issues won’t help them either.

 

[Bruins29]

Plus Montana played under center his entire career and rarely ever went into the shotgun like Brady often did, which allows a QB to get the ball off faster.

So what. Every QB on the teams Brady played against went into the shotgun like Brady did. You can only make your statement if the Patriots played the old 49ers. They diddnt so this is a horse$hit claim.

 

[Pape]

Fine, but Brady had a lot of advantages that Montana didn't have, including having the GOAT coach for 20 years while BIll Walsh coached only Montana for 9 years. If we are talking most accomplished QB in NFL history, it's Brady. That speaks for itself.

the next generations successes are always built on the groundwork laid by their ancestors... and im glad it was joe who took the beatings... hes kinda a douchecanoe ... i said douchecanoe because the word twat isnt allowed

edit... huh it is allowed... Montana is a twat... is a twatwaffle too

 

[Sicilian]

i know.

I get it.

But that's like saying Carlton Fisk (my most favorite red sox player ever) is the best catcher in MLB because he hit the most doubles.

Toms retired. We can welcome him back to the fold, even if he did **** on the front mat on his way back thru the door.

I don't know if Brady's snub was intentional or not (and don't want to rehash it). But if it was, it's like Roger Dorn needing to punch Wild Thing in the face before they could all start celebrating their playoff clinching win in Major League. Just gotta get that out of the system so we can all get drunk and enjoy the moment.

 

[Pape]

I don't know if Brady's snub was intentional or not (and don't want to rehash it). But if it was, it's like Roger Dorn needing to punch Wild Thing in the face before they could all start celebrating their playoff clinching win in Major League. Just gotta get that out of the system so we can all get drunk and enjoy the moment.

Of course it was intentional. EVERYTHING Tom Brady does or doesn't say / do is intentional.

dont want to rehash peoples lack of caring or hurt feelings either.

 

[XLIX]

It is moronic to only look at Montana's Super Bowl performances as some sort of ultimate gauge of his abilities. He played in a day and age where the 5 best teams were all in the NFC. The Super Bowl was little more than the annual beat down of whatever suckass team happened to win the AFC that season.

Montana had more than his fair share of lousy playoff performances against those NFC teams. Beating up on the weaker sister does not prove any sort of big game superiority.