OT - Celtics to trade #1 overall pick?

[RobertWeathers]

Ras-I Dowling comes to mind. Lmao did that dude ever step on the field?

Yes vs MIA on MNF and had a good game IIRC. Total tease

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ray was a better shooter than DJ, that's it. And if I had to choose one of them to go to war with, it would be DJ all day everyday.

This is an interesting discussion.

Over 82 you take Ray. In a G7 you take DJ. Ray was no slouch in the clutch but DJ raised his game in the playoffs.

Ray was the better scorer but DJ was the better all-around player.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Ray all day. I don't care if 86 or 2033. NBA games are won in the last 2 minutes and 3's are killer. Ray is a top 5-10 all time shooter. I love DJ but I'll take Ray.




Saw this earlier and didn't see it posted. Depends on the picks but I'm all for it if PG gives the go ahead. As long as it's not both lottery picks.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ray was a better shooter than DJ, that's it. And if I had to choose one of them to go to war with, it would be DJ all day everyday.

No question.

 

[AHoodieWorshipperInParis]

I don't follow college basketball very much so i don't know whether the next two draft classes match what Ainge/Stevens are looking for in terms of need/fit/talent : i'm just wondering, is there any chance that building through the draft + adding one max contract free agent (Hayward ? Griffin ?) may lead the C's to a sustainable championship team by 2019/2020 ? Or do they absolutely need to trade some of their picks for at least one established stars like in 2007 ?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ray all day. I don't care if 86 or 2033. NBA games are won in the last 2 minutes and 3's are killer. Ray is a top 5-10 all time shooter. I love DJ but I'll take Ray.




Saw this earlier and didn't see it posted. Depends on the picks but I'm all for it if PG gives the go ahead. As long as it's not both lottery picks.

Squeeze DeAndre Jordan in this at C an we have a Finals paticipant

IT
Bradley
Horford
PG
Jordan

Bench

Rozier
Smart
Tatum
Brown
Zeller

 

[Froob]

Ray was better than DJ and KG was better than Max but it's all about the gold.

Not sure how many they win but a combo of a healthy KG in 09, a healthy Perk in G7 2010 and a healthy AB in 2012 there is one more title there somewhere.

That fool David West would have been in the Finals 5 years ago if he didn't sign with the Pacers at the last min instead...

 

[rochrist]

I don't follow college basketball very much so i don't know whether the next two draft classes match what Ainge/Stevens are looking for in terms of need/fit/talent : i'm just wondering, is there any chance that building through the draft + adding one max contract free agent (Hayward ? Griffin ?) may lead the C's to a sustainable championship team by 2019/2020 ? Or do they absolutely need to trade some of their picks for at least one established stars like in 2007 ?

If they got lucky they could get the top two picks next year and be set up as a dynasty. There are three or four franchise bigs in the next draft.

 

[Ring 6]

Ray was better than DJ and KG was better than Max but it's all about the gold.

Not sure how many they win but a combo of a healthy KG in 09, a healthy Perk in G7 2010 and a healthy AB in 2012 there is one more title there somewhere.

Ray Allen was not better than DJ who Larry called the best player he ever played with.
To make up for the difference on defense allen would have to score 35 a game to be better than dj.

 

[Gronk]

Ray all day. I don't care if 86 or 2033. NBA games are won in the last 2 minutes and 3's are killer. Ray is a top 5-10 all time shooter. I love DJ but I'll take Ray.




Saw this earlier and didn't see it posted. Depends on the picks but I'm all for it if PG gives the go ahead. As long as it's not both lottery picks.

This is a great deal (if they keep a pick...just good but risky if not) if it comes with a George extension. I don't know if they beat LeBron but can't wait forever. Adding Hayward and PG makes them competitive with CLE this year and if the LeBron bailing to LA is at all true then they're set up for the next 4 or so years to compete. Beating GS is another matter, but gotta win conference first.

Re: Ray v DJ... the game has changed so much there's no way to separate the things demanded of players across eras, even from the 80/90s to the 00s. Ray Allen would get beat up in the 80s and not allowed to run off screens and shoot which would make him an off-bench shooter with a ceiling of a Mark Aguirre type and a more median value of something like Craig Hodges from the early 90s Bulls. DJs skills just aren't as valuable in today's game, so when they're playing the game where we value those players is much more important than who is playing.

 

[primetime]

Ray was a better shooter than DJ, that's it. And if I had to choose one of them to go to war with, it would be DJ all day everyday.

Just not even really comparable players, didn't even play the same position. Allen is up there as one of the greatest pure shooters of all-time. Johnson was a much better defender. Allen wasn't a bad defender by any means, but Johnson was an historically good defensive player. I'll take a plus defender over a plus shooter, though.

I think Garnett, over the course of his career, was probably better than Bird (I'm not a Celtics fan, so I don't have a dog in this fight). I'd struggle to name 10 basketball players better than KG (Jordan, LeBron, Shaq, Russell, Magic, Kobe, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan... and that's it). He might be the best defensive player of the modern era. And of those guys, he's the only one who spent the majority of his career on remarkably ****ty teams rather than surrounded by other Hall of Famers. Call him the most underrated player in NBA history and it wouldn't be undeserved.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

This is a great deal (if they keep a pick...just good but risky if not) if it comes with a George extension. I don't know if they beat LeBron but can't wait forever. Adding Hayward and PG makes them competitive with CLE this year and if the LeBron bailing to LA is at all true then they're set up for the next 4 or so years to compete. Beating GS is another matter, but gotta win conference first.

Re: Ray v DJ... the game has changed so much there's no way to separate the things demanded of players across eras, even from the 80/90s to the 00s. Ray Allen would get beat up in the 80s and not allowed to run off screens and shoot which would make him an off-bench shooter with a ceiling of a Mark Aguirre type and a more median value of something like Craig Hodges from the early 90s Bulls. DJs skills just aren't as valuable in today's game, so when they're playing the game where we value those players is much more important than who is playing.

If the Celtics got PG13 (ext of course) and Hayward I'd be pretty fired up knowing full well it would be a monumental task to beat Cleveland & GSW.

Still would be so fun. And Like I said the other day, who knows what happens next week, nevermind next year. Maybe a strong gust of wind knocks KD over and he hurts himself?


As for the "who's better" debates from different eras I think we have categorize them in terms of time periods. Obviously that won't stop and like everyone else I have my opinion but it's so hard to compare the different eras.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think Garnett, over the course of his career, was probably better than Bird

Not even close. KG couldn't hold Bird's jock.

 

[rochrist]

Not even close. KG couldn't hold Bird's jock.

Except at trash talking. Pretty much a wash there.

 

[primetime]

For what it's worth, as an outside observer, trading away the 1st pick and choosing Tatum seems like a mistake to me, but we'll see. The Celtics passed on arguably the first and second most talented players in the draft for a boring Duke player.

 

[captain insano]

Ray was a better shooter than DJ, that's it. And if I had to choose one of them to go to war with, it would be DJ all day everyday.

dj could have averaged 25 points a game if he wanted to. he was playing with three hof and an all star.not enough balls to go around. and he always defended the best player on the other team[jordan]. dj was an excellent offensive player before coming to the celtics with phoenix and seattle. ill take dj over ray allen and not think twice about it.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'd struggle to name 10 basketball players better than KG (Jordan, LeBron, Shaq, Russell, Magic, Kobe, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan... and that's it).

Just staying with centers, and avoiding the Mikan era, and KG still is fighting for the #10 spot, behind at least:

Russell
Chamberlain
Kareem
Shaq
Olajuwon
Robinson
Walton
Malone
Ewing


The line starts there, and there's plenty of competition for that last spot.

 

[captain insano]

Ray was better than DJ and KG was better than Max but it's all about the gold.

Not sure how many they win but a combo of a healthy KG in 09, a healthy Perk in G7 2010 and a healthy AB in 2012 there is one more title there somewhere.

no way was Ray Allen better than DJ. not even close. larry said that DJ was the best player he ever played with. and Larry wasnt known to throw around compliments. DJ took a back seat. and sacrificed his stats for the good of the team once he joined the Celtics.

 

[goheels22002]

For what it's worth, as an outside observer, trading away the 1st pick and choosing Tatum seems like a mistake to me, but we'll see. The Celtics passed on arguably the first and second most talented players in the draft for a boring Duke player.

Even though Tatum is from Dook, he was the best choice of the three under the circumstances. Lonzo Ball reminds me of Johnny Manziel. He and his father are a circus act. Fultz is overrated and did not make his teammates better on 9-22 Washington team.

The Sixers should have taken Dennis Smith, Jr. at the #3 spot and held onto their 2018 #1.

Fultz wouldn't have been the third best point guard in the ACC. I've looked at him a lot and don't get the "can't miss" assessment. I'd take NC State's Dennis Smith, Jr., UNC's Joel Berry, and Pitt's Jamel Artis over Fultz.

Jamel Artis didn't get drafted which I thought was ridiculous. The Heat signed him as a UFA and he'll play in the summer league - 6'7" 215 point guards don't appear often. He's 24 and a grown man.

Tatum is a 6'9" scorer who is a great compliment to 2016 3rd pick Jaylen Brown. Two superior young talents with smarts who offer different skills. Tatum, Brown and Rozier make up a terrific young, athletic supporting cast to the starters. Marcus Smart is a warrior. I expect 2nd rounder Semi Ojeleye to make the team. Ojeleye is a monster - LeBron James size and a mauler with a good jump shot. Think Tommy Heinsohn.

Horford
Crowder
Isaiah Thomas
Avery Bradley
Olynyk

Smart
Rozier
Tatum
Brown
Zizic

Nader
Ojeleye

 

[DarrylS]

What set DJ apart was not only his D prowess, but he he had an incredibly nasty attitude towards opposing teams.. do not remember any fights, but he presence was always obvious when he was on the floor..

Saying that KG is better than Bird is nonsense as well, Bird was not only a excellent player but he was an intense competitor as well. Bird vs. Dr. J, Bird vs. Jordan, Bird vs. Magic, Bird vs. Lambier/Mahorn and etc. anyone of those matchups was much better than anything we witness in this day and age in the NBA.. Of course Johnny Most made the NBA exponentially more interesting.