OT - Celtics to trade #1 overall pick?

[RobertWeathers]

Tell Garnett to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.

I bet no one got that epic movie quote.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

everyone standing around outside the 3 point line waiting to launch 3's is not exciting basketball..IMO..I hate today's NBA

Agreed! The product is boring and very mediocre. And the obvious fixing of games is pathetic. How about that 4th game of the Finals where the Cavs (and the NBA) need a win to avoid being swept and the refs send the Cavs to the FT line TWENTY TIMES in the 1st quarter. ha ha ha ha What a freakin' joke!! The NBA has all the legitimacy of the WWE. You could hand me free tickets to a Celtics game and I'd give them away. Not worth my time.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Walton never averaged 20 ppg; Garnett had eight straight seasons in which he averaged 20-10. Also, Garnett played twice as long as Walton. I don't see how you can put Walton above Garnett based on those facts alone; sorry but injuries cut short Walton's impact and, to me, necessitate Garnett being ranked above him even if you concede that Walton had flashes which at times were better than Garnett's (which I may or may not). BTW Walton is the only guy on your list whom I never saw play in his prime, but I did see him when he was an excellent bench player for the Celtics. I think Garnett gets the slight nod over Robinson and Ewing as well: both were good but not for quite as long, also Robinson was a bit soft at times.

Now Moses, I may have to reconsider because despite his diet of excrement, the man was a straight beast. But I still think you sell Garnett short overall.

A 1977 early 78 Walton is a superior player than Garnett in his prime by a comfortable margin.

We saw Walton here in 86 and he was barely 1/2 the player he was.

KG is a HoFer no question but like the greats Walton could control a game without taking a shot.

 

[Ivan]

90% of the players in the NBA have those qualities.

Work ethic, mental toughness and the will to win will determine if he is player or a pretender.

Every pro draft is difficult to evaluat but the NBA Draft seems to be the toughest to evaluate. The jump for 18-21 year olds to the NBA is huge and the rate for flunking out is really high for all of them. Ainge is a good GM but he's better at evaluating pro talent than he is the draft. It's hard to see how they get by GS over the next two years but if he has hit on Brown and Tatum they will be able to use their existing assets, young talent, and free agency to become a legitimate contender for an NBA title after 2017.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Every pro draft is difficult to evaluat but the NBA Draft seems to be the toughest to evaluate. The jump for 18-21 year olds to the NBA is huge and the rate for flunking out is really high for all of them. Ainge is a good GM but he's better at evaluating pro talent than he is the draft. It's hard to see how they get by GS over the next two years but if he has hit on Brown and Tatum they will be able to use their existing assets, young talent, and free agency to become a legitimate contender for an NBA title after 2017.

I think every GM is better at evaluating pro talent however Danny's been more focused on drafting players NBA ready kids as opposed to going for upside. The problem is its resulted in BOS being poor in drafting starting-caliber players the last 10 years. The one time he went for sheer upside (Melo) it blew up in his face.

 

[captain stone]

I bet no one got that epic movie quote.

Nobody? Surely you can't be serious.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Nobody? Surely you can't be serious.

Yes I am.....and stop calling me Surely.

 

[Ivan]

I think every GM is better at evaluating pro talent but with Danny, hes been more focused on acquiring players that are more NBA ready than going for upside which has resulted in BOS being poor in drafting starting-caliber players the last 10 years. The one time he went for upside (Melo) it blew up in his face.

I have been a Warriors fan since Nelson had them running a four guard team in the early 90's, but unlike my football fandom I don't really care about it. I like how they built their team and when it comes to basketball that's actually more interessting to me than the games. I'm not going to jump onthe bandwagon if the Celtics become a legit contender, which only two teams are right now, but I still find the process of building a team interesting, and following Ainge's moves the last few years has certainly been interesting. I thought he would have made a major deal over the course of the last two years by I agree with any GM who doesn't sell low or overpay for a star, and Ainge has resisted both temptations. This has been my major ***** with the Bruins, who got nothing for Seguin and made a big mistake in getting rid of Boychuck. Ainge was right not to fall into the trap if impatience but he really needs to be right about Brown and Tatum. Bradley is a really good player but ultimately they won't be able to keep him so I would package him with the Memphis pick and a Celtics pick for George, then I would try to pull off a sign and trade with LA next offseason if they are unable to sign him. I would do everything to sign Hayward as well, even the ugh it will probably mean dumping salary and guys like Crowder. The Celtics need high quality starters not depth, and a rental of George and signing of Hayward would put them in a realistic position to take over the East next year.

I don't know much about the NBA but that would be my approach.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I have been a Warriors fan since Nelson had them running a four guard team in the early 90's, but unlike my football fandom I don't really care about it. I like how they built their team and when it comes to basketball that's actually more interessting to me than the games. I'm not going to jump onthe bandwagon if the Celtics become a legit contender, which only two teams are right now, but I still find the process of building a team interesting, and following Ainge's moves the last few years has certainly been interesting. I thought he would have made a major deal over the course of the last two years by I agree with any GM who doesn't sell low or overpay for a star, and Ainge has resisted both temptations. This has been my major ***** with the Bruins, who got nothing for Seguin and made a big mistake in getting rid of Boychuck. Ainge was right not to fall into the trap if impatience but he really needs to be right about Brown and Tatum. Bradley is a really good player but ultimately they won't be able to keep him so I would package him with the Memphis pick and a Celtics pick for George, then I would try to pull off a sign and trade with LA next offseason if they are unable to sign him. I would do everything to sign Hayward as well, even the ugh it will probably mean dumping salary and guys like Crowder. The Celtics need high quality starters not depth, and a rental of George and signing of Hayward would put them in a realistic position to take over the East next year.

I don't know much about the NBA but that would be my approach.

Danny is rebuilding the right way. As we've discussed hes not hitting on the picks liek GS did with Thompson and Steph.

Its such a shame Dwight Howard is a jerk with a bloated contract. Hes exactly the kind of player they need. I'd give up a lot for Gobert. No way UT does that. They love the kid

If they can somehow land a rim protector/rebounder to be that last line of defense for the dribble penetration and land George to go with IT, AB, Horford and have Smart, Rozier, Tatum and Brown off the bench they will be in very good shape to reach the Finals as I think CLE is on the downside. I like Hayward but I'd take George any day of the week.

Getting past GS is another ball of wax.

 

[jimnance]

Moses Malone was absolutely relentless. When the Sixers added him to the team that had Maurice Cheeks, Andrew Toney (The Boston Assassin), Bobby Jones, and Dr. J, the Sixers dominated. Malone won the NBA MVP and the NBA Finals MVP. He was 1st team NBA Defensive team. Moses Malone averaged a career post-season double-double (22 and 14) in 13 post seasons. He and Garnett are very similar players.

Toney was the Boston Strangler, not the "Assassin".
I agree that Moses is a good comparable for KG,in terms of overall talent level and impact. Different types of players but both were relentless. They're both top 20-25ish to me.

 

[captain stone]

Before I give my 2 cents on the draft, I believe that there's no way whatsoever that #5 should be retired. The man played a total of 6 years here…6. With one ring.
To me, that just isn't retired-number worthy.
I also believe that Dennis Johnson in his prime was an overall better player than Ray Allen in his prime, but that #3 should not have been retired either. DJ played only 7 years here. And if Easy Ed MacAuley's #22 and Cornbread Maxwell's #31 were never raised to the rafters, I wouldn't have lost any sleep over it.

I'm glad that Danny passed on the punk Josh Jackson (aka Jalen Brown 2.0) in favor of Jason Tatum.
I would still have taken a chance on Jonathan Issac at #3, however, because unless Danny has plans to trade Crowder and/or Brown (which is more than fine by me), then we have too many bodies (with large commitments in financial/draft capital) at the Small Forward position and not nearly enough at the PF/Stretch-4 position, and we're still one of the worst defensive/rebounding teams in the league.
Which makes the drafting of Semi Ojeleye really hard to fathom. It's not that he was taken above his draft value - in fact, he's a borderline top-30 talent - it's that he is completely, utterly redundant here. Now, had Danny drafted Jonathan Isaac at #3, then using #37 on Ojeleye would've made perfect sense; but he didn't, so therefore he should've used that pick either on Isaiah Hartenstein, another borderline top-30 talent and the best Big still available (IMO ahead of Jordan Bell, Thomas Bryant & Mathias Lessort), or on Ike Anigbogu, who was generally higher-ranked than Hartenstein but played so little during his one season at UCLA that it is very difficult to project his future as a pro.

The picks at 53 and 56 were totally useless, insulting trash. These 2 stiffs will never, ever step on an NBA court in a game that matters. Alec Peters, a borderline top-35 talent and the best player available regardless of position, should've been the choice at 53; and at 56, another PF, Jonathan Motley, a borderline top 40-45 talent and the best player available regardless of position after Peters was drafted at 54, should've been the choice at 56. If Danny wanted to go Guard (because he should've had already drafted either Isaac or Hartenstein/Anigbogu beforehand), then he could've taken a chance on Kadeem Allen's Arizona backcourt mate - and the far, Far superior talent - Kobi Simmons. How Danny could watch those Arizona games and conclude that Allen is a better prospect than Simmons is mind-boggling.

Another draft, another underwhelming performance by Danny, again. To our detriment.

Edit: and another thing, by drafting 2 more Wings AND still having Crowder & Brown, where does that leave the persuit of Gordon Hayward?

Another edit: Forgot to mention that injuries to both Peters (stress fracture) and Motley (torn meniscus) likely played a role in their drop down draft boards, but those injuries should not cause any long-term problems for either of them. It's not like they suffered ligament/cartilage damage; and with these new 2-way contracts, they could've rehabilitated their games at Maine and still have been available for recalls throughout the season. 2 missed opportunities for Danny in a decade full of them.

 

[borg]

Before I give my 2 cents on the draft, I believe that there's no way whatsoever that #5 should be retired. The man played a total of 6 years here…6. With one ring.
To me, that just isn't retired-number worthy.
I also believe that Dennis Johnson in his prime was an overall better player than Ray Allen in his prime, but that #3 should not have been retired either. DJ played only 7 years here. And if Easy Ed MacAuley's #22 and Cornbread Maxwell's #31 were never raised to the rafters, I wouldn't have lost any sleep over it.

I'm glad that Danny passed on the punk Josh Jackson (aka Jalen Brown 2.0) in favor of Jason Tatum.
I would still have taken a chance on Jonathan Issac at #3, however, because unless Danny has plans to trade Crowder and/or Brown (which is more than fine by me), then we have too many bodies (with large commitments in financial/draft capital) at the Small Forward position and not nearly enough at the PF/Stretch-4 position, and we're still one of the worst defensive/rebounding teams in the league.
Which makes the drafting of Semi Ojeleye really hard to fathom. It's not that he was taken above his draft value - in fact, he's a borderline top-30 talent - it's that he is completely, utterly redundant here. Now, had Danny drafted Jonathan Isaac at #3, then using #37 on Ojeleye would've made perfect sense; but he didn't, so therefore he should've used that pick either on Isaiah Hartenstein, another borderline top-30 talent and the best Big still available (IMO ahead of Jordan Bell, Thomas Bryant & Mathias Lessort), or on Ike Anigbogu, who was generally higher-ranked than Hartenstein but played so little during his one season at UCLA that it is very difficult to project his future as a pro.

The picks at 53 and 56 were totally useless, insulting trash. These 2 stiffs will never, ever step on an NBA court in a game that matters. Alec Peters, a borderline top-35 talent and the best player available regardless of position, should've been the choice at 53; and at 56, another PF, Jonathan Motley, a borderline top 40-45 talent and the best player available regardless of position after Peters was drafted at 54, should've been the choice at 56. If Danny wanted to go Guard (because he should've had already drafted either Isaac or Hartenstein/Anigbogu beforehand), then he could've taken a chance on Kadeem Allen's Arizona backcourt mate - and the far, Far superior talent - Kobi Simmons. How Danny could watch those Arizona games and conclude that Allen is a better prospect than Simmons is mind-boggling.

Another draft, another underwhelming performance by Danny, again. To our detriment.

Edit: and another thing, by drafting 2 more Wings AND still having Crowder & Brown, where does that leave the persuit of Gordon Hayward?

The NBA playoffs has devolved into shootouts devoid of defense and the Celtics were not equipped for the reality of the new NBA.
Case in point: The winners of each NBA Finals game averaged 126 points in their victories. The Celtics averaged 98 points in their 4 playoff losses to the Cavs.
Ainge's new pieces, especially if Hayward signs on, may not fit the traditional mold as we once knew it...but these are not traditional times.
Get ready for the high flying Nuggets of yesteryear (1981...126 pts/game).

 

[deroc5050]

everyone standing around outside the 3 point line waiting to launch 3's is not exciting basketball..IMO..I hate today's NBA

besides when I was under 14 years of age.. I never really watched the NBA regular season with any consistency.

I don't mind the way the game is played today, it is a little different. Instead of going inside to your big man while he posts up, they spread the floor around the 3 point line creating more space to shoot the 3 or dive to the hole.

 

[Ring 6]

I bet no one got that epic movie quote.

I did

 

[primetime]

garnet on his best day wasnt better than larry bird lmao. and i love garnet. but you could not be more wrong.

Fair enough. I only saw Bird play at the tail end of his career, when he was dealing with injuries, while I was able to see Garnett's entire career.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I did

You're old like me.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Fair enough. I only saw Bird play at the tail end of his career, when he was dealing with injuries, while I was able to see Garnett's entire career.

There is a lot of great conversation re: how KG stacks up vs the greats and what we all don't want to forget is KG is a future- HoFer. Great career. Great player. Great competitor. Great champion. A Celtic through and through.

He and Larry were different players. Hard to compare.

Larry Legend in his prime was a sight to see. The youtube highlights don't do him justice.

Russell
KAJ
Bird
Magic
Jordan

 

[RobertWeathers]

Toney was the Boston Strangler, not the "Assassin".
I agree that Moses is a good comparable for KG,in terms of overall talent level and impact. Different types of players but both were relentless. They're both top 20-25ish to me.

I think Johnny named Rick Robey the "baby-faced assassin" after he was traded to PHO for DJ.

Then I think he called Isaiah Thomas that once DET started to make their climb in the EC

 

[captain insano]

DJ

 

[Ring 6]

There is a lot of great conversation re: how KG stacks up vs the greats and what we all don't want to forget is KG is a future- HoFer. Great career. Great player. Great competitor. Great champion. A Celtic through and through.

He and Larry were different players. Hard to compare.

Larry Legend in his prime was a sight to see. The youtube highlights don't do him justice.

Russell
KAJ
Bird
Magic
Jordan

I fought the bird over Jordan battle hard until Jordan ended up with 6 rings.
You can debate different skill sets, which are more important, whether versatility is more important than being incredible at one or 2 things but in the end how your skill set translates to winning is what matters, because the reason you play the game is to win. And when you are the primary reason for winning it separates you (I also downgrade its like magic and Kareem or Kobe and Shaq because they shared being the primary reason)

So

Russell
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Kareem