OT - Celtics to trade #1 overall pick?

[RobertWeathers]

I fought the bird over Jordan battle hard until Jordan ended up with 6 rings.
You can debate different skill sets, which are more important, whether versatility is more important than being incredible at one or 2 things but in the end how your skill set translates to winning is what matters, because the reason you play the game is to win. And when you are the primary reason for winning it separates you (I also downgrade its like magic and Kareem or Kobe and Shaq because they shared being the primary reason)

So

Russell
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Kareem

I push Jordan down because I think his 6 titles came in a watered down NBA.

KAJ also had 6 titles in 10 appearances and yes, needed Magic but won a title with an ok cast with MIL and an older Big O but I think Magic needed KAJ just as much. Defensively has was dominant.

I put Magic and Larry over MJ as they could dominate a game and not even score . I can see the argument of MJ better than Magic or Larry. MJ blows them away defensively and was superior offensively because he had to be. LB danced around 30ppg a few times and was a better passer and rebounder.

No one touches Russ.

 

[Bill Lee]

OTOH Basketball and Football drafts have become an entity into themselves and have morphed into billion dollar businesses.. it is about the bottom line.

Yes, and those who make predictions end up being not very good at it, but since it happens during the off-season they've got a lot of time to fill so we get served up huge portions of Mock Draft V9.0 or whatever.

Nobody? Surely you can't be serious.

I know. He picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue.

We need old movie references like the NHL needs an expansion team. Oh, wait...

 

[Doctor DDS]

The death of Len Bias had a significant impact on the legacies of both Magic and Bird. If Bias was a good as everyone was predicting (he was a better college BB player than Jordan) it is likely that the Celtics repeat in 1987 and could well have won again in 1988 (both won by the Lakers.) Bias was exactly what that team needed (a bench and an infusion of youth) Bird then retires with 2 more championships and Magic with 2 less. I understand that every team has "what ifs" but to have Bias joining what I still contend is the best NBA team since at least the early 70's would have been incredible to behold. Bird was significantly better than KG.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The death of Len Bias had a significant impact on the legacies of both Magic and Bird. If Bias was a good as everyone was predicting (he was a better college BB player than Jordan) it is likely that the Celtics repeat in 1987 and could well have won again in 1988 (both won by the Lakers.) Bias was exactly what that team needed (a bench and an infusion of youth) Bird then retires with 2 more championships and Magic with 2 less. I understand that every team has "what ifs" but to have Bias joining what I still contend is the best NBA team since at least the early 70's would have been incredible to behold. Bird was significantly better than KG.

At a minimum, in 87 Bias allows Kevin to rest his broken foot in March and provide Larry and Robert a break here and there. With allowing Kevin to rest for 6-8 weeks at his apex who knows what happens vs LA. With that said LA was great in 87.

In 88 onward tough to call . The Big 3 were getting older but had some gas in the tank. DET and CHI were athletic and came on strong.

 

[patsfan13]

William Russell is the Greatest PLAYER in the History of US Team Sports.


He made teammates better to the point that they ended up in the HoF.

 

[captain insano]

The death of Len Bias had a significant impact on the legacies of both Magic and Bird. If Bias was a good as everyone was predicting (he was a better college BB player than Jordan) it is likely that the Celtics repeat in 1987 and could well have won again in 1988 (both won by the Lakers.) Bias was exactly what that team needed (a bench and an infusion of youth) Bird then retires with 2 more championships and Magic with 2 less. I understand that every team has "what ifs" but to have Bias joining what I still contend is the best NBA team since at least the early 70's would have been incredible to behold. Bird was significantly better than KG.

dont forget reggie lewis.. imagine how many more titles the celtics would have won with bias and lewis.

 

[jimnance]

dont forget reggie lewis.. imagine how many more titles the celtics would have won with bias and lewis.

As tragic as Bias' too-early death was, Lewis' was far more tragic. Len died from cocaine. Reggie had a genetic heart problem. Both were sorrowful,but Reggie's hurt a lot more.

 

[zydecochris]

Not gonna get too deep into this but a couple observations:
When he was healthy,at his peak,Walton was as good as any center who ever played- his comparables are Wilt,Russell and Kareem. But Bill had bad feet so his career was cut short. But Walton at his best was way,way,way better than KG. Not remotely close.
And Olajuwon was also far superior to KG.
KG was a great player- but not close to top 10.
I could rattle off 15 players off the top of my head who were better than Garnett.
I always liked him even with the Twolves,but no way he's top 10.

At his peak, Walton might have been the most amazingly complete center I've ever seen during those two years before the foot problems. Maybe not as good of a passer as Bird, but close. Amazing defense. Sky high basketball IQ. He was just a winner, he made his teammates better in the same way that Bird and Magic did (and evidently Russell, although that was before my time).

It was a great loss for the sport when injuries derailed his career. When you have a list of the "greatest centers", longevity matters, so someone like Tim Duncan, who maintained the same high level of performance over almost two decades, is probably "greater". However, if you made up a team of all-time greats at their peaks, I think Walton would be battling Kareem for the Center spot.

 

[RobertWeathers]

dont forget reggie lewis.. imagine how many more titles the celtics would have won with bias and lewis.

Bias would have been in his prime in the late 80s and early 90s. He would have been 30 in 1993

Reggie passed away at 27 in 1993.

While those two would have been great together (we think), Kevin and Larry were cooked by 1992 and Chief was 39.

Together they might make it past DET in 88

Larry was out in 89. Doubtful they get past DET

They might make it past DET in 1990 and would certainly have a great shot at beating POR. That was Larry's last semi healthy good year.

1991-1993 was CHI. Not happening.

The 1994/1995 Knicks, Rockets and Magic teams were pretty good.

No one beats the 1996-1998 Bulls.

 

[Froob]

Bias would have been in his prime in the late 80s and early 90s. He would have been 30 in 1993

Reggie passed away at 27 in 1993.

While those two would have been great together (we think), Kevin and Larry were cooked by 1992 and Chief was 39.

Together they might make it past DET in 88

Larry was out in 89. Doubtful they get past DET

They might make it past DET in 1990 and would certainly have a great shot at beating POR. That was Larry's last semi healthy good year.

1991-1993 was CHI. Not happening.

The 1994/1995 Knicks, Rockets and Magic teams were pretty good.

No one beats the 1996-1998 Bulls.

League boned us, Reggie Lewis dies and still on the hook for the cap hit. Heat got cap space for Bosh's illness...

 

[captain stone]

Russell
KAJ
Bird
Magic
Jordan

Russell
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Kareem

I would place Chamberlain ahead of Jabbar, and would listen to arguments in favor of Oscar Robertson ahead of Johnson.

 

[RobertWeathers]

League boned us, Reggie Lewis dies and still on the hook for the cap hit. Heat got cap space for Bosh's illness...

David Stern and Red had a major, major beef between one another.

Under Stern the Celtics did not receive quarter - for anything.

 

[rochrist]

I would slot him in behind Olajuwon. You think Patrick Ewing was better than Garnett? You think Bill Walton was?! Moses Malone?!? Christ, just fire in Chocolate Thunder, Jack Sikma and Artis Gilmore, why don't you. I agree that he's no Bird but it feels like you're going too far here.

Bill Walton was. He just had his career tragically shortened by injuries. 77 when he dragged the Trailblazers to the title and was the Finals MVP he was a transcendent player. You might also recall he led UCLA to back to back 30-0 seasons and an 88 game winning streak.

 

[rochrist]

Before I give my 2 cents on the draft, I believe that there's no way whatsoever that #5 should be retired. The man played a total of 6 years here…6. With one ring.
To me, that just isn't retired-number worthy.
I also believe that Dennis Johnson in his prime was an overall better player than Ray Allen in his prime, but that #3 should not have been retired either. DJ played only 7 years here. And if Easy Ed MacAuley's #22 and Cornbread Maxwell's #31 were never raised to the rafters, I wouldn't have lost any sleep over it.

I'm glad that Danny passed on the punk Josh Jackson (aka Jalen Brown 2.0) in favor of Jason Tatum.
I would still have taken a chance on Jonathan Issac at #3, however, because unless Danny has plans to trade Crowder and/or Brown (which is more than fine by me), then we have too many bodies (with large commitments in financial/draft capital) at the Small Forward position and not nearly enough at the PF/Stretch-4 position, and we're still one of the worst defensive/rebounding teams in the league.
Which makes the drafting of Semi Ojeleye really hard to fathom. It's not that he was taken above his draft value - in fact, he's a borderline top-30 talent - it's that he is completely, utterly redundant here. Now, had Danny drafted Jonathan Isaac at #3, then using #37 on Ojeleye would've made perfect sense; but he didn't, so therefore he should've used that pick either on Isaiah Hartenstein, another borderline top-30 talent and the best Big still available (IMO ahead of Jordan Bell, Thomas Bryant & Mathias Lessort), or on Ike Anigbogu, who was generally higher-ranked than Hartenstein but played so little during his one season at UCLA that it is very difficult to project his future as a pro.

The picks at 53 and 56 were totally useless, insulting trash. These 2 stiffs will never, ever step on an NBA court in a game that matters. Alec Peters, a borderline top-35 talent and the best player available regardless of position, should've been the choice at 53; and at 56, another PF, Jonathan Motley, a borderline top 40-45 talent and the best player available regardless of position after Peters was drafted at 54, should've been the choice at 56. If Danny wanted to go Guard (because he should've had already drafted either Isaac or Hartenstein/Anigbogu beforehand), then he could've taken a chance on Kadeem Allen's Arizona backcourt mate - and the far, Far superior talent - Kobi Simmons. How Danny could watch those Arizona games and conclude that Allen is a better prospect than Simmons is mind-boggling.

Another draft, another underwhelming performance by Danny, again. To our detriment.

Edit: and another thing, by drafting 2 more Wings AND still having Crowder & Brown, where does that leave the persuit of Gordon Hayward?

Crowder will be gone, sooner rather than later. Also, in today's game, its pretty much possible to play with 1 PG, 1 big and 3 wings. Even 1 PG and 4 wings for long stretches.

 

[captain insano]

Bias would have been in his prime in the late 80s and early 90s. He would have been 30 in 1993

Reggie passed away at 27 in 1993.

While those two would have been great together (we think), Kevin and Larry were cooked by 1992 and Chief was 39.

Together they might make it past DET in 88

Larry was out in 89. Doubtful they get past DET

They might make it past DET in 1990 and would certainly have a great shot at beating POR. That was Larry's last semi healthy good year.

1991-1993 was CHI. Not happening.

The 1994/1995 Knicks, Rockets and Magic teams were pretty good.

No one beats the 1996-1998 Bulls.

we will never know. lewis gave jordan fits. reggie hadnt reached his prime yet. i think lewis bias was good for at least one title.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I would place Chamberlain ahead of Jabbar, and would listen to arguments in favor of Oscar Robertson ahead of Johnson.

Big O was a great player.

 

[RobertWeathers]

we will never know. lewis gave jordan fits. reggie hadnt reached his prime yet. i think lewis bias was good for at least one title.

It is interesting how one of the greatest perimeter defenders in NBA history had a tough time w Reggie.

 

[captain insano]

It is interesting how one of the greatest perimeter defenders in NBA history had a tough time w Reggie.

whats interesting about it? reggie was long and had the best first step in the nba back then. he was really really good. it amazes me how easily people forget.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

League boned us, Reggie Lewis dies and still on the hook for the cap hit. Heat got cap space for Bosh's illness...

No, the two situations were under DIFFERENT collective bargaining agreements. Bosh didn't get special treatment, it was just that his career-threatening injury occurred when new rules were in effect

In the current CBA the league and players agreed on the clause that can erase the cap hit "if a doctor that is jointly selected by the league and players association agree that his condition is career-ending, or severe enough to put him at risk if he continues playing”

A good rule change, IMO.

.

 

[RobertWeathers]

whats interesting about it? reggie was long and had the best first step in the nba back then. he was really really good. it amazes me how easily people forget.

Reggie was a very good player. Joe Dumars has also said how hard Reggie was to defend but he was shorter than RL.

Reggie had that pull up j that was so incredibly quick in getting off. Plus he naturally faded on his shot and got high with it. Very underrated. Deadly mid range game. Quick off the dribble.

My point is I think Reggie was a very good player but he's not in Jordan, Miller, Dumars or Clyde Drexlers class and for MJ and Dumars to go out of their way to say that is interesting.