OT - Celtics to trade #1 overall pick?

[RobertWeathers]

Ray Allen was not better than DJ who Larry called the best player he ever played with.
To make up for the difference on defense allen would have to score 35 a game to be better than dj.

Yea I flip flopped later on this thread. DJ was the better all-around player. Took me a little to remember....30 years ago y'know

 

[RobertWeathers]

no way was Ray Allen better than DJ. not even close. larry said that DJ was the best player he ever played with. and Larry wasnt known to throw around compliments. DJ took a back seat. and sacrificed his stats for the good of the team once he joined the Celtics.

Ive since flip flopped as it was 30 years ago since DJ played but to say it's not close is a bit much. Ray was a great player.

 

[1960Pats]

I'm talking specifically about this trade.

There's a chance we gave up the #1 for 2-5 pick next year. That's not a good deal.

Phila was clearly in love with MF. This was no secret. We gave him up cheap. And in the process might have help them out more than ourselves.

Didn't they give up the #1 for the #3 and the pick TBD?

 

[captain insano]

Just not even really comparable players, didn't even play the same position. Allen is up there as one of the greatest pure shooters of all-time. Johnson was a much better defender. Allen wasn't a bad defender by any means, but Johnson was an historically good defensive player. I'll take a plus defender over a plus shooter, though.

I think Garnett, over the course of his career, was probably better than Bird (I'm not a Celtics fan, so I don't have a dog in this fight). I'd struggle to name 10 basketball players better than KG (Jordan, LeBron, Shaq, Russell, Magic, Kobe, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan... and that's it). He might be the best defensive player of the modern era. And of those guys, he's the only one who spent the majority of his career on remarkably ****ty teams rather than surrounded by other Hall of Famers. Call him the most underrated player in NBA history and it wouldn't be undeserved.

garnet on his best day wasnt better than larry bird lmao. and i love garnet. but you could not be more wrong.

 

[Bill Lee]

For what it's worth, as an outside observer, trading away the 1st pick and choosing Tatum seems like a mistake to me, but we'll see. The Celtics passed on arguably the first and second most talented players in the draft for a boring Duke player.

I just heard a long interview with Danny Ainge ( Celtics Talk Podcast ) and the message I got was the same that another famous New England sport executive has sent: We're building a team, not collecting talent.

He also said he would have taken Tatum #1 regardless, so thanks to PHL for the free 1st round pick next year!

The interview made it clear he knows he has to not only raise the level of this year's team, but also he clearly states he needs to find that generational talent that can make them a true contender for a championship. Clearly he didn't see that in Fultz. Clearly it's going to take a good combination of resources, skill and luck to get that player. It should be very interesting going forward. In the mean time, the Celts will be fielding a very good team.

 

[Richard Camembert]

Just staying with centers, and avoiding the Mikan era, and KG still is fighting for the #10 spot, behind at least:

Russell
Chamberlain
Kareem
Shaq
Olajuwon
Robinson
Walton
Malone
Ewing


The line starts there, and there's plenty of competition for that last spot.

I would slot him in behind Olajuwon. You think Patrick Ewing was better than Garnett? You think Bill Walton was?! Moses Malone?!? Christ, just fire in Chocolate Thunder, Jack Sikma and Artis Gilmore, why don't you. I agree that he's no Bird but it feels like you're going too far here.

 

[captain insano]

What set DJ apart was not only his D prowess, but he he had an incredibly nasty attitude towards opposing teams.. do not remember any fights, but he presence was always obvious when he was on the floor..

Saying that KG is better than Bird is nonsense as well, Bird was not only a excellent player but he was an intense competitor as well. Bird vs. Dr. J, Bird vs. Jordan, Bird vs. Magic, Bird vs. Lambier/Mahorn and etc. anyone of those matchups was much better than anything we witness in this day and age in the NBA.. Of course, Johnny Most made the NBA exponentially more interesting.

some people don't realize how much different the league was in the 80s. the teams were so much better. the play was so much more physical. just to get to the eastern conference finals was a huge accomplishment. 1987 the Celtics had to go thru the bucks and pistons to get to the finals. both series went 7. people forget about the bucks. marques johnson. Sidney Moncrief. jack sickma. they had a excellent teams for years
1986-87 Milwaukee Bucks Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[Deus Irae]

I would slot him in behind Olajuwon. You think Patrick Ewing was better than Garnett? You think Bill Walton was?! Moses Malone?!?

Yes, without question. But then, to be fair, I've been watching basketball for decades, and I've actually seen those players play, while others here might not have. Walton, for example, was a much, much better player than Garnett. We're talking "not in the same league" level of much better. A healthy Walton was a match for Kareem, not Garnett.

 

[XLIX]

Yes, without question. But then, to be fair, I've been watching basketball for decades, and I've actually seen those players play, while others here might not have. Walton, for example, was a much, much better player than Garnett. We're talking "not in the same league" level of much better. A healthy Walton was a match for Kareem, not Garnett.

Tell Garnett to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.

 

[Richard Camembert]

Yes, without question. But then, to be fair, I've been watching basketball for decades, and I've actually seen those players play, while others here might not have. Walton, for example, was a much, much better player than Garnett. We're talking "not in the same league" level of much better. A healthy Walton was a match for Kareem, not Garnett.

Walton never averaged 20 ppg; Garnett had eight straight seasons in which he averaged 20-10. Also, Garnett played twice as long as Walton. I don't see how you can put Walton above Garnett based on those facts alone; sorry but injuries cut short Walton's impact and, to me, necessitate Garnett being ranked above him even if you concede that Walton had flashes which at times were better than Garnett's (which I may or may not). BTW Walton is the only guy on your list whom I never saw play in his prime, but I did see him when he was an excellent bench player for the Celtics. I think Garnett gets the slight nod over Robinson and Ewing as well: both were good but not for quite as long, also Robinson was a bit soft at times.

Now Moses, I may have to reconsider because despite his diet of excrement, the man was a straight beast. But I still think you sell Garnett short overall.

 

[Deus Irae]

Walton never averaged 20 ppg; Garnett had eight straight seasons in which he averaged 20-10. Also, Garnett played twice as long as Walton. I don't see how you can put Walton above Garnett based on those facts alone;

Because Walton was clearly the superior player.

sorry but injuries cut short Walton's impact and, to me, necessitate Garnett being ranked above him

Walton is the better player, by a wide margin. The longevity doesn't change that.

BTW Walton is the only guy on your list whom I never saw play in his prime, but I did see him when he was an excellent bench player for the Celtics.

And there it is, in bold. Here's a little nugget about Walton, by the way:

only player to have ever won an NBA Finals MVP, Sixth Man Award, and regular season MVP.

Another nugget: He's widely considered the best passing center in NBA history.

I think Garnett gets the slight nod over Robinson and Ewing as well: both were good but not for quite as long, also Robinson was a bit soft at times.

Garnett was soft at times, too, and he was not as good as either Ewing or Robinson. And pointing to Robinson's longevity, when he served two years in the military after college, is patently unfair. After all, Garnett has the advantage over most players for that, because he's one of the high school guys.

Now Moses, I may have to reconsider because despite his diet of excrement, the man was a straight beast. But I still think you sell Garnett short overall.

Garnett was an excellent player. He's just not better than the centers I listed, and is in a group of others vying for the next center slots on the best ever teams.

 

[jimnance]

Not gonna get too deep into this but a couple observations:
When he was healthy,at his peak,Walton was as good as any center who ever played- his comparables are Wilt,Russell and Kareem. But Bill had bad feet so his career was cut short. But Walton at his best was way,way,way better than KG. Not remotely close.
And Olajuwon was also far superior to KG.
KG was a great player- but not close to top 10.
I could rattle off 15 players off the top of my head who were better than Garnett.
I always liked him even with the Twolves,but no way he's top 10.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I wonder If sabonis would've gotten consideration on this list had he come over right away. By the time he arrived in Portland injuries had already taken its toll. But during his prime he could do it all.

 

[captain stone]

Before I give my 2 cents on the draft, I believe that there's no way whatsoever that #5 should be retired. The man played a total of 6 years here…6. With one ring.
To me, that just isn't retired-number worthy.
I also believe that Dennis Johnson in his prime was an overall better player than Ray Allen in his prime, but that #3 should not have been retired either. DJ played only 7 years here. And if Easy Ed MacAuley's #22 and Cornbread Maxwell's #31 were never raised to the rafters, I wouldn't have lost any sleep over it.

I'm glad that Danny passed on the punk Josh Jackson (aka Jalen Brown 2.0) in favor of Jason Tatum.
I would still have taken a chance on Jonathan Issac at #3, however, because unless Danny has plans to trade Crowder and/or Brown (which is more than fine by me), then we have too many bodies (with large commitments in financial/draft capital) at the Small Forward position and not nearly enough at the PF/Stretch-4 position, and we're still one of the worst defensive/rebounding teams in the league.
Which makes the drafting of Semi Ojeleye really hard to fathom. It's not that he was taken above his draft value - in fact, he's a borderline top-30 talent - it's that he is completely, utterly redundant here. Now, had Danny drafted Jonathan Isaac at #3, then using #37 on Ojeleye would've made perfect sense; but he didn't, so therefore he should've used that pick either on Isaiah Hartenstein, another borderline top-30 talent and the best Big still available (IMO ahead of Jordan Bell, Thomas Bryant & Mathias Lessort), or on Ike Anigbogu, who was generally higher-ranked than Hartenstein but played so little during his one season at UCLA that it is very difficult to project his future as a pro.

The picks at 53 and 56 were totally useless, insulting trash. These 2 stiffs will never, ever step on an NBA court in a game that matters. Alec Peters, a borderline top-35 talent and the best player available regardless of position, should've been the choice at 53; and at 56, another PF, Jonathan Motley, a borderline top 40-45 talent and the best player available regardless of position after Peters was drafted at 54, should've been the choice at 56. If Danny wanted to go Guard (because he should've had already drafted either Isaac or Hartenstein/Anigbogu beforehand), then he could've taken a chance on Kadeem Allen's Arizona backcourt mate - and the far, Far superior talent - Kobi Simmons. How Danny could watch those Arizona games and conclude that Allen is a better prospect than Simmons is mind-boggling.

Another draft, another underwhelming performance by Danny, again. To our detriment.

Edit: and another thing, by drafting 2 more Wings AND still having Crowder & Brown, where does that leave the persuit of Gordon Hayward?

 

[ViperGTS]

Good Stuff!

 

[DarrylS]

I will take Bird and DJ on my team any day of the week, because I know they will show up, play really hard and take no crap from nobody...

Both had a lot of unique talent together they had a nucleus of great teams..

Ray Allen was a great shooter and a really nice guy.. DJ did not have the scoring prowess, but he was a tenacious defender who played with a nasty attitude..

 

[RhodyPatriot]

The problem with the NBA is their draft is far more exciting than their product.
The NBA is such a dog league and borderline legit with the manipulation via officiating that goes on.

 

[sambam94]

everyone standing around outside the 3 point line waiting to launch 3's is not exciting basketball..IMO..I hate today's NBA

 

[goheels22002]

I would slot him in behind Olajuwon. You think Patrick Ewing was better than Garnett? You think Bill Walton was?! Moses Malone?!? Christ, just fire in Chocolate Thunder, Jack Sikma and Artis Gilmore, why don't you. I agree that he's no Bird but it feels like you're going too far here.

Moses Malone was absolutely relentless. When the Sixers added him to the team that had Maurice Cheeks, Andrew Toney (The Boston Assassin), Bobby Jones, and Dr. J, the Sixers dominated. Malone won the NBA MVP and the NBA Finals MVP. He was 1st team NBA Defensive team. Moses Malone averaged a career post-season double-double (22 and 14) in 13 post seasons. He and Garnett are very similar players.

 

[DarrylS]

The problem with the NBA is their draft is far more exciting than their product.
The NBA is such a dog league and borderline legit with the manipulation via officiating that goes on.

IMO it is difficult to get all enthused about a high school kid with 1 year on the collegiate level, most of these kids are still growing and learning the game.. a team signs a player for the standard 4 year contract, and he does not even mature until the 3rd year and after the 4th they can move on.. seems a lot nonsensical to me.. big investments on a product that no one is sure of.

OTOH Basketball and Football drafts have become an entity into themselves and have morphed into billion dollar businesses.. it is about the bottom line.