OT - Celtics to trade #1 overall pick?

[BTTA]

As tragic as Bias' too-early death was, Lewis' was far more tragic. Len died from cocaine. Reggie had a genetic heart problem. Both were sorrowful,but Reggie's hurt a lot more.

Why does the cause of death shape the degree of tragedy?

 

[BTTA]

One would think, from reading this thread, that Ainge is making all these choices regarding the draft as an autocrat, rather than the leader of an organization with sophisticated evaluation process and reliant on give-and-take of many people to shape the final decisions. If that's true, it is very sad, as that management style will severely reduce his window for success.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No, the two situations were under DIFFERENT collective bargaining agreements. Bosh didn't get special treatment, it was just that his career-threatening injury occurred when new rules were in effect

In the current CBA the league and players agreed on the clause that can erase the cap hit "if a doctor that is jointly selected by the league and players association agree that his condition is career-ending, or severe enough to put him at risk if he continues playing”

A good rule change, IMO.

.

Red sought cap relief for Reggie and Stern denied him. Reason was because Red and Stern had a blood feud going back to when Stern drew up the contract for Red to join the Knicks and Red dissed them.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Why does the cause of death shape the degree of tragedy?

Because it does.

The death of a soldior in Iraq fighting for his country is different than AH killing himself in a jail cell which is different than someone who succums to cancer after years of fighting.

All tragic in the same degree but different in their own way.

Lenny's and Reggies deaths were equally as tragic but we knew Reggie as he was a part of a city and hurt much more. He would have died even if Gilbert Mudge hadn't totally f-ed up and Donna Lewis played Courtney Love.

Bias just made a bad decision.

 

[captain insano]

Reggie was a very good player. Joe Dumars has also said how hard Reggie was to defend but he was shorter than RL.

Reggie had that pull up j that was so incredibly quick in getting off. Plus he naturally faded on his shot and got high with it. Very underrated. Deadly mid range game. Quick off the dribble.

My point is I think Reggie was a very good player but he's not in Jordan, Miller, Dumars or Clyde Drexlers class and for MJ and Dumars to go out of their way to say that is interesting.

I don't think we know what class Reggie was because he died. he wasn't in his prime. yet. but that has nothing to with how well Reggie defended Jordan. I think Reggie was going to be a lot better that you give him credit for. I think your memory has faded much like your memories of DJ.

 

[captain insano]

As tragic as Bias' too-early death was, Lewis' was far more tragic. Len died from cocaine. Reggie had a genetic heart problem. Both were sorrowful,but Reggie's hurt a lot more.

i dont see any differnce. they were both tragic. drugs claim lots of lifes. both made poor choices. reggie ignored the doctors advice and played when he was advised not to by more than one doc. the only guy that said he could play was gilbert mudge. and he was proven wrong.

 

[captain insano]

Why does the cause of death shape the degree of tragedy?

it doesnt. and it shouldnt.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think we know what class Reggie was because he died. he wasn't in his prime. yet. but that has nothing to with how well Reggie defended Jordan. I think Reggie was going to be a lot better that you give him credit for. I think your memory has faded much like your memories of DJ.

You are getting emotional and I get it but let's put his career in perspective.

Reggie was a very good player. He was 27 when he passed. That is the prime of an NBA player. It is highly unlikely he was going to get appreciably better.

Additionally, he was not a better player than any of those I mentioned.

The DJ comment is silly. Take a breath and remove the emotion from your assessment of the player.

 

[captain insano]

You are getting emotional and I get it but let's put his career in perspective.

Reggie was a very good player. He was 27 when he passed. That is the prime of an NBA player. It is highly unlikely he was going to get appreciably better.

Additionally, he was not a better player than any of those I mentioned.

The DJ comment is silly. Take a breath and remove the emotion from your assessment of the player.

lol I'm not emotional at all. I just think you are completely wrong. 27 was not his prime because he was playing on a team with established vets. he didn't get a lot of playing time early in his career. kc Jones had him sitting on the bench. he had lots of room for growth as a player. Reggie was going to be an all-star. he was going to be the face of the Celtics. my comment on DJ was spot on. to say he wasn't better than some of those other guys is ridiculous. Reggie died and the others had full careers.

 

[patsfan13]

 

[captain stone]

The death of Len Bias had a significant impact on the legacies of both Magic and Bird. If Bias was a good as everyone was predicting (he was a better college BB player than Jordan) it is likely that the Celtics repeat in 1987 and could well have won again in 1988 (both won by the Lakers.) Bias was exactly what that team needed (a bench and an infusion of youth) Bird then retires with 2 more championships and Magic with 2 less. I understand that every team has "what ifs" but to have Bias joining what I still contend is the best NBA team since at least the early 70's would have been incredible to behold. Bird was significantly better than KG.

I was also hoping for a back-to-back championship in 1985, especially after watching the Memorial Day Massacre of game 1. Unfortunately, by that time the talent pool wasn't being replenished with fresh, young legs in the same manner that it had been beforehand; from 1981-84, the only 2 draft picks to make impacts were Danny Ainge & Rick Carlisle.

 

[RobertWeathers]

lol I'm not emotional at all. I just think you are completely wrong. 27 was not his prime because he was playing on a team with established vets. he didn't get a lot of playing time early in his career. kc Jones had him sitting on the bench. he had lots of room for growth as a player. Reggie was going to be an all-star. he was going to be the face of the Celtics. my comment on DJ was spot on. to say he wasn't better than some of those other guys is ridiculous. Reggie died and the others had full careers.

Reggie was THE guy in 1993 and he did great. He was actually an all-star in 92.

This notion of KC burying Reggie on the bench early in his career is wrong. He sat on the pine his rookie year in 87 but played over 30m a game in 2nd year and averaged almost 19 a game.

If you think Reggie was better than Clyde Drexler I don't know what to tell you but you are crazy.

 

[BTTA]

Take a breath and remove the emotion from your assessment of the player.

You are asking the impossible. Emotion is the starting point for all human activity, and shapes everything we do. There's no such thing as an emotion-less assessment of anything.

 

[TommyD4207]

I would slot him in behind Olajuwon. You think Patrick Ewing was better than Garnett? You think Bill Walton was?! Moses Malone?!? Christ, just fire in Chocolate Thunder, Jack Sikma and Artis Gilmore, why don't you. I agree that he's no Bird but it feels like you're going too far here.

Think of them playing against each other.

Ewing would drop 30 and 15 on Garnett every time. So would Bill Walton, and he could take him in the post of away from the basket. Moses Malone, same thing.

Kevin Garnett was a fantastic player, lock hall-of-famer, probably one of the three or four best centers the Celtics have had.

But you clearly didn't see/don't remember Ewing, Malone and Walton. Those are all-timers. The abuse Ewing would put on Garnett on both ends of the floor wouldn't even be fair.

 

[TommyD4207]

I wonder If sabonis would've gotten consideration on this list had he come over right away. By the time he arrived in Portland injuries had already taken its toll. But during his prime he could do it all.

It's a shame we'll never know the answer to that.

The glimpses we got of Sabonis were special, to be sure.

 

[BlacknGold77]

Think of them playing against each other.

Ewing would drop 30 and 15 on Garnett every time. So would Bill Walton, and he could take him in the post of away from the basket. Moses Malone, same thing.

Kevin Garnett was a fantastic player, lock hall-of-famer, probably one of the three or four best centers the Celtics have had.

But you clearly didn't see/don't remember Ewing, Malone and Walton. Those are all-timers. The abuse Ewing would put on Garnett on both ends of the floor wouldn't even be fair.

Ewing wouldnt put any kind of hurt on KG on defense. Basically if they played each other in their primes neither one would stop the other on offense.

Ewing would go to the block and out muscle KG
KG would pull Ewing out to the 3pt line and blow by him with the dribble

 

[RobertWeathers]

You are asking the impossible. Emotion is the starting point for all human activity, and shapes everything we do. There's no such thing as an emotion-less assessment of anything.

Only if you allow it.

 

[captain insano]

Reggie was THE guy in 1993 and he did great. He was actually an all-star in 92.

This notion of KC burying Reggie on the bench early in his career is wrong. He sat on the pine his rookie year in 87 but played over 30m a game in 2nd year and averaged almost 19 a game.

If you think Reggie was better than Clyde Drexler I don't know what to tell you but you are crazy.

lol this from the guy who said Ray Allen was better than DJ. I think your memory is failing you. your evaluation skills are shaky. Reggie was buried on the bench early in his career is fact. he played only 8.3 minutes a game his rookie year. if that's not buried I don't know what is. early in his career = rookie year. I don't know if Reggie was better than Clyde. he died. he might have been if he lived.

 

[RobertWeathers]

lol this from the guy who said Ray Allen was better than DJ. I think your memory is failing you. your evaluation skills are shaky. Reggie was buried on the bench early in his career is fact. he played only 8.3 minutes a game his rookie year. if that's not buried I don't know what is. early in his career = rookie year. I don't know if Reggie was better than Clyde. he died. he might have been if he lived.

Jesus.

KC didn't think he was ready for big minutes. Period. Hes not starting a rookie or taking away major minutes from Bird, McHale and Ainge. Just like Bill said JE11 wasn't playing ahead of Welker. If Red wanted Reggie to play he would have played. I'll go with KC and Red's assessment of the player before yours. He played in 5/8s of the games. The said he was ready in Y2 and he did great.

You have got to be kidding me. Early implies first few years. Early is not a single year. Was Tom Brady buried "early" in his career? He wasn't beating out Drew. He needed time. Just like Reggie. You screwed up.

DJ and Ray is a valid debate. I thought about it more and revised my assessment. Of course DJ is a better all-around player. Ray is a better shooter. I stated that in many posts. You take Ray for 82 games and DJ in a Game 7.

I appreciate your love for Reggie but you are over the top in your defense of him and now to improve your position belittling my assessment of him and past players. Stop it.

 

[borg]

My 2 cents:
Reggie was a fine basketball player but was he was never the caliber of athlete who could carry a basketball team to the promised land. Funny how local boys magically get elevated.
Semi-local boy Patrick Ewing falls into the same category. Living in NYC during the Ewing-Knicks era with company seats to 10-15 games per year, I saw first hand what Ewing was...an incredibly solid player who gave maximum effort ...but....he wasn't a guy who could put his team on his shoulders and carry them when they needed to be carried. IMO...he was a product of coaching and b-ball never seemed natural for him.