OT: Brandon Marshall to Miami for 2010 2nd and 2011 2nd

[spacecrime]

I keep reading comments about the Pats' locker room issues, and I wonder if they're getting overblown (not necessarily with the comment above, but in media reports in general). My sense has always been that it wasn't up to Belichick-era standards, but maybe wasn't truly bad by most teams' standards?

Who wants to build the Patriots by most teams standards? A late-round-pick rookie (Pryor) talked about how bad the locker room was! What does it take for THAT to happen?

Locker room chemistry had a lot to do with both 2001 and 2009, IMO.

 

[Rob0729]

Again with your whole riskiness theories...How is giving up a 3rd and a 4th round pick for one of the best WRs in the NFL a risk? The guy consistently puts up great numbers, over 1,000 receiving in 5 of his 7 years in the league and the 2 years that he didnt he was injured for most of those years.

What in your opinion isn't a risk when trading for a player?

And the reason the Patriots didnt get Boldin was they didnt want to pay the money that Boldin wanted and thats standard to how the Patriot FO operates.

I am stating the Pats' reasoning. Of course he is a risk, he wouldn't have been available if he is a risk. Teams don't trade 1,000 plus yard receivers if there isn't a reason. I said you can argue that what the Ravens gave up for him wasn't too much of a risk, but the Pats obviously though giving him a new deal was too much of a risk. I didn't say I agree with them or disagree with them.

The Pats wanted him to come here on an one year deal. They typically like free agents or acquired players with question marks to come here on an one year deal and prove themselves. They did that with a number of players including Moss, Dillon, Burgess, Washington, etc. It wouldn't be the first time they have adopted that strategy. BTW, both Moss and Dillon get paid very, very well the following year after the came here which flies in the face of your assertion.

 

[ramon]

Nick Caserio and BB time to wake up, the offseason has started

 

[patsinthesnow]

I'd think this increases the odds of Denver taking Bryant.

To me this kindof doesn't make sense, even the NFLN predicting this. They just traded a top WR in the game for a 2nd in 2010 and 2011.

So after trading the guy, they'll use the #11 pick on a WR? That pretty much offsets the trade (#11 is worth more anyway) So it's Marshall straight up for Dez Bryant. See what I mean?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Let me know when you're ready to stop mischaracterizing my position, so I can remove you from my ignore list.



You can say the same thing about almost any non-marquee FA addition.



Actually, they do. Vince Wilfork. Thank God the people who run the Patriots are smart enough to evaluate players on factors beyond their stat lines.

And FWIW, I think Lewis' stats are pretty decent for a rotational DT.



So basically the only difference between now and then is that your agenda has changed.

Whatever you think....some people are comical..thanks for the laugh and you just keep wearing those glasses,you look good in them....

Nothing further to say your honor.... Damione Lewis is a defense savior,you win

I will check for you at the Patriots shop to see if they have any Damione Lewis jerseys in stock...I know you want one of each color and I hear the price is reasonable.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm starting to believe BB likes Dex Bryant, if we somehow get him,I understand the non signing of WRs or trading for Boldin.

Maybe he'll slide to #22 with MIA getting Marshall Denver will go for Mcclain.

I don't see the Pats wanting Des Bryant. I think it is all a smokescreen. I think he lacks the maturity and the mental make up to play in the Pats' offense. It is probably more likely they take a guy like Golden Tate in the second round. But as I said, the draft isn't my strong point.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I don't see the Pats wanting Des Bryant. I think it is all a smokescreen. I think he lacks the maturity and the mental make up to play in the Pats' offense. It is probably more likely they take a guy like Golden Tate in the second round. But as I said, the draft isn't my strong point.

Agreed - its Golden Tate in the second...I have a big feeling about that kid

I expect a DT in round 1

but I don't know, Jack says we have Damione Lewis to carry us to the SB and he looked up all this hoopla and good things about him at the Panthers Messageboard so maybe we don't need one so bad

 

[JackBauer]

Whatever you think....some people are comical..thanks for the laugh and you just keep wearing those glasses,you look good in them....

Nothing further to say your honor.... Damione Lewis is a defense savior,you win

I will check for you at the Patriots shop to see if they have any Damione Lewis jerseys in stock...I know you want one of each color and I hear the price is reasonable.

Damione Lewis may or may not be what you describe, but I'll tell you your savior: reading comprehension.

 

[patsinthesnow]

This is my opinion on the draft with WRs. If Bryant falls to the pats, we take him. If he isn't there, I don't think a WR is taken with the four top 53 picks.

 

[Coach42]

I am stating the Pats' reasoning. Of course he is a risk, he wouldn't have been available if he is a risk. I said you can argue that what the Ravens gave up for him wasn't too much of a risk, but the Pats obviously though giving him a new deal was too much of a risk. I didn't say I agree with them or disagree with them.

The Pats wanted him to come here on an one year deal. They typically like free agents or acquired players with question marks to come here on an one year deal and prove themselves. They did that with a number of players including Moss, Dillon, Burgess, Washington, etc. It wouldn't be the first time they have adopted that strategy. BTW, both Moss and Dillon get paid very, very well the following year after the came here which flies in the face of your assertion.

I think the real risk is the monetary risk. If we made the same trade for Marshall he would have been the highest paid player on the team, how would that have played in the locker room? The Boldin trade came down right in the middle of negotiations with Wilfork. How do you think players would have reacted to Boldin getting an extension instantly (which was part of the deal) and the Patriots dragging out contract negotiations with a cornerstone of the franchise like Wilfork?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Anyone questioning the Pats not making a move for him simply needs to look at what it's costing the Dolphins in terms of picks and Benjamins.

Astonishing.

Expensive, though worth picks & $ IF he plays the season at his potential and avoids breaking myriad laws. In contrast, the JETs got the best risk/reward for their WR trade.

 

[JackBauer]

If they're planning on drafting a WR... I would consider sending that 2nd round pick to the Saints for Lance Moore.

Unless they're absolutely head-over-heels for someone in particular.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Damione Lewis may or may not be what you describe, but I'll tell you your savior: reading comprehension.

 

[italia44]

Nick Caserio and BB time to wake up, the offseason has started

Trust me,they're awake........The New Jersey Jets won the Preseason,Preseason Super Bowl for the 41st consecutive year..........The REAL preseason starts next Thursday........now,go back to sleep:bricks:

 

[patsinthesnow]

LOL at this. He has a point, why's it matter how you talk ONLINE on a MESSAGE board.

 

[The Dynasty]

I am stating the Pats' reasoning. Of course he is a risk, he wouldn't have been available if he is a risk. Teams don't trade 1,000 plus yard receivers if there isn't a reason. I said you can argue that what the Ravens gave up for him wasn't too much of a risk, but the Pats obviously though giving him a new deal was too much of a risk. I didn't say I agree with them or disagree with them.

The Pats wanted him to come here on an one year deal. They typically like free agents or acquired players with question marks to come here on an one year deal and prove themselves. They did that with a number of players including Moss, Dillon, Burgess, Washington, etc. It wouldn't be the first time they have adopted that strategy. BTW, both Moss and Dillon get paid very, very well the following year after the came here which flies in the face of your assertion.

Boldin was acquired the first day of free agency, so he wasnt available for very long so apparently he wasnt much of a risk. Boldin's time in Arizona was up, he wants to be the primary WR on the team he plays for. In AZ he had Fitzgerald and also Breaston is an upcoming WR. Just because a player isnt necessarily happy with one team doesnt mean that he will be an issue with every other team he might play for.

That is what I meant with the Patriots not wanting to pay Boldin. They didnt want to give him the long-term, big money deal. Thats how the Pats FO operates, like you said they give one year deals so that the players have the chance to prove themselves and the Pats a chance to evaluate them and see if they want to give them a long term deal. AD comes to mind as a player that didnt fall into the not sign to a long term big money deal and look how that turned out.

 

[Rob0729]

Boldin was acquired the first day of free agency, so he wasnt available for very long so apparently he wasnt much of a risk. Boldin's time in Arizona was up, he wants to be the primary WR on the team he plays for. In AZ he had Fitzgerald and also Breaston is an upcoming WR. Just because a player isnt necessarily happy with one team doesnt mean that he will be an issue with every other team he might play for.

That is what I meant with the Patriots not wanting to pay Boldin. They didnt want to give him the long-term, big money deal. Thats how the Pats FO operates, like you said they give one year deals so that the players have the chance to prove themselves and the Pats a chance to evaluate them and see if they want to give them a long term deal. AD comes to mind as a player that didnt fall into the not sign to a long term big money deal and look how that turned out.

First, Boldin was dangled all of last offseason and the Cards couldn't get value for a trade. They had to lower their demands this year to get it done. The Cards didn't want him because he wanted to much, caused headaches, and was injury prone the way he plays.

Second, the Pats do not do one year deals with everyone. They wanted to give Bodden a long term deal before last year, but he was the one who wanted a short deal. They only do it with players that they have concerns about whether they will play to a level of their contract. It really has nothing to do with Thomas although they blew that one because they thought they were getting a different player than he was and he wasn't a team guy.

Personally, I think Boldin is less of a risk than either Marshall or Holmes based soley on the player and not what was given up (granted Holmes is a lower risk just because the Jets only lose a fifth round pick if he is a bust). But I can see the Pats' thinking and why they didn't pay the money. Boldin does play with reckless abandon and that is a risk with a guy who is going to be 30 in October and hasn't been healthy enough to play a full season since 2006. I am disapointed the Pats didn't get him, but I don't think it was a huge mistake that the Pats were assleep at the wheel. I wouldn't be shocked a year or two down the road if the Ravens regret making the investment.

 

[JackBauer]

LOL at this. He has a point, why's it matter how you talk ONLINE on a MESSAGE board.

Seriously?

Because when you're debating an issue with other posters, their ability to comprehend the actual argument you're making is pretty much critical. This isn't exactly rocket science.

 

[Ring 6]

You keep your little hopes up that this stud Lewis is a big pickup and I will stay awake while you dream away in fantasyland...let me know how the dream ends

I can't believe how lucky we were to pick up Lewis when those 31 other teams were knocking down doors to get this guy

Who gives a sh!t what other teams messageboards say...stats don't lie

BTW: Pleasant and Hamilton were guys I actually thought were good pickups back then...as well as Phifer,they fit in then when we had a nucleus of decent character guys to blend them in with for a winning attitude,even if the season before was not so great.

Lewis was a 1st round pick who has been a starting DL in the NFL for quite some time. That is an important piece. He certainly is an upgrade to Jarvis Green in run defense and neither have rushed the QB much lately.
Our DEs in the base are now Warren, Wright and Lewis and its very debatable what order the 2nd and 3rd are in. After a season when our run D from the base was less than spectacular, I would certainly consider upgrading the run defense a big move. I'm sorry he doesn't have any name value, but he does have the value that name or not games are won in the trenches. He certainly is AT LEAST as good today as either Hamilton or Pleasant where when they arrived here.

 

[JoeSixPat]

You get draft picks to get players. Marshall is a top 10 receiver and, on the field, is well worth the cost. The question is whether he can conduct himself well enough off the field to remain playing.

Boldin, Holmes, Marshall..... that's now 3 very talented receivers that the Patriots could have gotten without overpaying. Each has some issue(s), but let's not pretend that they weren't good gets for their new teams, or that they aren't great players who could have helped the Patriots a great deal.

I don't think it's a question of being able to afford the players financially or in terms of the cost of draft picks, although the price shouldn't be minimized, nor should the risk that these guys aren't able to be on the field to help a team.

If Belichick wanted any of them he could have had them.

What is clear is that he did a cost benefit analysis and likely decided that the $10 million a season would be better spent elsewhere, and that he preferred to hold on to what amounts to four 1st Round Draft choices this season (i.e. if one accepts the notion that this draft is deep enough to have 1st round talent available in the 2nd round.)

Those four picks stand a VERY good chance of being quality long term starters for a very affordable price, while allowing Belichick to spend his veteran $$ on something like, say a Tom Brady extension or other player.

Meanwhile Holmes is one wake and bake away from being suspended for a year and Marshall's turd factor makes the $29 million guaranteed investment significantly dicey.

The bottom line is that Belichick's cost benefit analysis stopped him from pulling the trigger. I'm not saying Belichick is always right (see: The Reche Caldwell era) but I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt over you or any Patsfan on these judgment calls.