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Opt-Outs


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Unless the cap space rolls over until next year it doesn't benefit the patriots at all to have anyone opt out.

We had no cap space before the opt outs and one of the leagues best cap situations next year.

Now next years cap is already being eaten by players i thought we'd be done with.

Why? we are paying the SB in our cap. you just cut him or them next year, they are not being guranteed a job.
 
Certainly not if they don't lose their salary if they stay home.

Consider if an individual with limited long-term skills were offered a 6 month job in Saudi Arabia for $2M. Should he go if he has to leave his family for that time. How about $3M.

Let's be serious. I well understand players at risk not wanting to risk their lives. Cannon is certainly an example. However, those who are staying home because of their families wouldn't make sense if a player weren't being paid. After all, it is reasonable not to be in the presence of at-risk family members for a few months if the reason is that the player needs to make millions in one his last opportunities.

they are being paid 150,000, that should not influence anyone making millions a year.
 
Opting IN and putting "families at risk" are not mutually inclusive conditions.

Going home after banging against other men huffing and puffing, then getting on a airplane and then on a bus and going home where they may be an elderly or sickle cell person in the house is putting them at risk. I don't understand why we as fans give a crap if the play or don't due to covid.
 
But... But... But... that would be cowering!

Freedom means I'm free to lick that third rail to see if there really is high voltage on it.

Will the voltage kill me or the current, I can't truly be free till I know!

Love it.
 
It's there, you just didn't read it.

The number of people on earth isn't relevant when calculating the risks of dying in a commercial air crash.

The first sentence yielded a search for some of the most addled-pated back-of-the-envelope slop I've ever seen trotted out here. All you're apparently capable of is calculating a rate for a very low exposure to death by aviation disaster.

This is simply irrelevant to a discussion of COVID-19. Next it's "why don't you calculate" blah blah blah regarding COVID-19. "Why don't you calculate..." indeed.

Tell you what, since you apparently believe that prospectively accounting for massive unknowns using a few months of an exponentially growing pandemic spread is exactly comparable to reviewing decades of knowns in aviation, why don't we review the knowns of COVID again.

I don't like the global conceit here, because almost all NFL players are U.S. nationals.

But are the known facts. Again.
Coronavirus Update (Live): 18,220,203 Cases and 692,325 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

As of this writing.
(note how much more important it is to note this than in the case of Aviation. In fact, it takes longer to collect the effing data in aviation than the entire length of this pandemic to date.)

Coronavirus Cases:
18,219,002
view by country
Deaths:
692,309
Recovered:
11,435,236

ACTIVE CASES
6,091,457
Currently Infected Patients
6,025,656 (99%)
in Mild Condition
65,801 (1%)
Serious or Critical

CLOSED CASES
12,127,545
Cases which had an outcome:
11,435,236 (94%)
Recovered / Discharged

692,309 (6%)
Deaths

So, there's your comparison. 6% of known cases resolved in death, worldwide. Only 1% of cases are presently serious or critical. Whether 6% will eventually die within this cohort is unknown.

The known fact is that 6% have died in resolved cases to date.

Next time you run across an airline that survives after killing either 1% or 6% of its customers, you let us know champ.

Now, do you want to distort these numbers with guesswork?

Or were you errantly assuming that the clever thing to do to minimize this deadly pathogen is to randomly combine the present number of deaths by, for whatever reason, the population of the Earth?

Once again, one pertinent difference is that you don't know how many people have COVID-19. You do know, roughly, how many people took trips on commercial aircraft. (Actually, you only know how many trips people took. But that's orders of magnitude less important than the error of attempting to compare the future outcomes of an exponentially growing pathogen with several years of known data about aviation.)

There ya go, sport, I calculated the rates for you. What TF did you imagine your point to be?

By the way, if you were only trying to be wrong about aviation accident rate fluctuation over time, you'd have covered that base as well. It's absolutely relevant that aviation reached an unprecedented era of safety in the past few years, only to have that rate (or absolute numbers) terribly distorted by a two-jumbo-jet spike -- especially when these had an uncharacteristic common factor in AOA indicators and flight control software rules. While manufacturers liked to say that flight crews should have been sharper, even when they were, they ended up having to physically fight against the airplane. The point being that there was something broken that had to be fixed -- quite a different state of affairs than, for example, an insufficiently trained pilot. I point this out because so many aviation disasters end up being much more about what individuals could have done to avert the accident. In the case of the 737 Max, the global fleet ended up having to be grounded (which doesn't happen if, for example, a flight crew member just selects the wrong airport code in a flight management computer leading to an accident sequence.) Why rates change, especially with very low rates that are therefore very sensitive to single accidents, is also at least as important as the fact that the rate changed. That's why we have accident investigation agencies. It's idiotic to hold that intra-period fluctuation in aviation fatality rates is "irrelevant."

But it's absolutely the case that your original comparison is way off base, unless you're trying to prove that caution is not only indicated on behalf of the players, but in fact that the disease is not being taken seriously enough.
 
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First of all, let's establish that the deadline is set for 7 days after the official signing of the new deal, and this agreement was made a week ago so the thought was the deadline would be somewhere on or around August 1. The players have already had 7+ days to make a decision.

However, it has taken longer to dot all the i's and cross the t's than originally expected. So now, since the agreement has still not technically been ratified as of today, we are looking at an opt out date of August 10 at the earliest if they don't change the deal. I can understand why the Owners would want that moved up a bit and, other than the McCourty's, I just don't see much opposition on the part of the players to agree to set the date sooner (on the 5th maybe), which is still several days longer than they originally thought they would have.

So really the Players thought they would have 7 days to make their decisions and it will likely end up being 12 days. If that happens then yes, it would mean the deadline date was moved up from the original agreement. But in actuality, the players had more time than they thought they would.

EDIT: BTW, the fact that the McCourty's are this interested in when the deadline is makes me think they are certainly considering opting out. Would they really get riled up about a deadline if they had already made their decision?
I understand the NFL's rationale, but given how the NFL has taken advantage technical loopholes in the contract, it puzzles me that the union would not do the same without some sort of quid pro quo.
 
Why? we are paying the SB in our cap. you just cut him or them next year, they are not being guranteed a job.

I was under the understanding that if you opt out that your contract just rolls over into next year and thst their cap money this season frees up.

Which doesn't do us any good at this point in the year but does affect our fap next year when I was resigned and I believe Bill was too to using this year to clean up their cap issues and start a rebuild or retool or however you wanna call it next year with all their new money.
 
Which doesn't do us any good at this point in the year but does affect our fap next year when I was resigned and I believe Bill was too to using this year to clean up their cap issues and start a rebuild or retool or however you wanna call it next year with all their new money.

Bolded why I'm not saying anything...
 
There ya go, sport, I calculated the rates for you.

You have no idea about how to properly normalize for and calculate an apple-to-apples comparison.

That said, any chance you could distill your "rates" conclusions down to 1 or 2 sentences?

Even if there was a valid point in your post it was lost in the massive slick of projectile vomit you covered the sidewalk with...
 
they are being paid 150,000, that should not influence anyone making millions a year.
No but it might influence someone on the cusp of getting cut, especially if they can bump it up to $350k.
 
But are the known facts. Again.
Coronavirus Update (Live): 18,220,203 Cases and 692,325 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

As of this writing.
(note how much more important it is to note this than in the case of Aviation. In fact, it takes longer to collect the effing data in aviation than the entire length of this pandemic to date.)

Coronavirus Cases:
18,219,002
view by country
Deaths:
692,309
Recovered:
11,435,236

None of those numbers are correct.
- China has lied about ALL their numbers. The fact is that they had cases dating back to September 2019.

- The numbers in the US are fictitious as well. From the claim that there have been 160K deaths to the total number infected (4.6M). Even the CDC has said that there have been less than 60K deaths where COVID was the actual COD.
 
You have no idea about how to properly normalize for and calculate an apple-to-apples comparison.

That said, any chance you could distill your "rates" conclusions down to 1 or 2 sentences?

Even if there was a valid point in your post it was lost in the massive slick of projectile vomit you covered the sidewalk with...

Everything you just said is complete CRAP.

The only person who is posting vomit is you. You're the one who started with the commercial airplane BS.. So please run along so the rest of us can get back to actually talking football. Something you seem incapable of doing.
 
No but it might influence someone on the cusp of getting cut, especially if they can bump it up to $350k.

Well, I hope you understand then that the person has a legitimate health reason himself and not a family one, if he gets paid the larger amount. In that case I would hope that no one here would then question it.
 
Going home after banging against other men huffing and puffing, then getting on a airplane and then on a bus and going home where they may be an elderly or sickle cell person in the house is putting them at risk. I don't understand why we as fans give a crap if the play or don't due to covid.

That's a new one....a "sickle cell person in the house"...HAH!!!

Rational fans don't care if a player opts out...

...and they also don't care if players opt in --- you seem to think they shouldn't be allowed to?

Bottom line is the VAST majority of players are OPTING IN. (looks like about 98% currently)

If the CBS Sports site is correct there are also 10 teams who have had no players opt out.
 
I was under the understanding that if you opt out that your contract just rolls over into next year and thst their cap money this season frees up.

Which doesn't do us any good at this point in the year but does affect our fap next year when I was resigned and I believe Bill was too to using this year to clean up their cap issues and start a rebuild or retool or however you wanna call it next year with all their new money.

the salary rolls into next year, the SB still gets amoritized and I just assumed any bonus paid in March at the beginning of the league year would also hit the cap. It certainly would not be the first time I was wrong.
 
So please run along so the rest of us can get back to actually talking football.

Do you believe NFL players should be allowed to opt in?

Do you believe the NFL owns the right to make every effort to conduct a football season this year?
 
Well, I hope you understand then that the person has a legitimate health reason himself and not a family one, if he gets paid the larger amount. In that case I would hope that no one here would then question it.
I have no problems or questions of anyone, whether they choose to play or opt out. It is a personal decision each and every player needs to make for themselves. I don’t even need the explanations we usually see when someone *does* opt out.

All I’m saying is that right now, at the point where the rosters are 80-man large, there are plenty of players for whom $350k is a lot of money. People tend to think of pro athletes as nothing but a bunch of multi-millionaires when that most certainly is not the case at this stage of the preseason.
 
Are other teams losing players to the opt-out clause at the same rate as the Pats?
 
Are other teams losing players to the opt-out clause at the same rate as the Pats?

Not even close.

Cowboys have 3 opt-outs and they are the only other team with more than 2 opt-outs (Patriots up to 8).

10 teams have 100% of players opting-in (including Tampa Bay).

12 teams have 1 opt-out. 9 teams have 2 opt-outs.

Overall the league is running at about a 98% Opt-In rate.
 
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