OPINION: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

[Fixit]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

Sorry, but you're wrong on that one. Samuel did have the instinct to go the SportsCenter highlight interception, but he was all in all better than Sheppard. Maybe he didn't deserve the kind of money he got, but Samuel is one of the top three CBs in the league. Sheppard would be a good replacement, but he's not Asante Samuel.

I think Samuel's a top-tier corner...in New England.

Elsewhere? I just don't see it. Hey, I could be wrong, but I think Samuel's going to be just another corner in Philly.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

I think Samuel's a top-tier corner...in New England.

Elsewhere? I just don't see it. Hey, I could be wrong, but I think Samuel's going to be just another corner in Philly.

Well I guess we'll just have to see what happens.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

I'm in the camp with those who said there's no friggin' way Samuel was worth the money he wanted. Sheppard's the superior player, and in this system, he'd be a beast.

I think BB's system may be the most difficult one to predict this in. We KNOW Samuel can play in it and be effective. We have NO guarantee that Lito can do the same.

Big Money for known asset

vs.

Big money, plus draft pick, for injury prone unknown commodity.

If he was a plain old free agent, it would be easier to swallow.

 

[Dragda]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

Sorry, but you're wrong on that one. Samuel did have the instinct to go the SportsCenter highlight interception, but he was all in all better than Sheppard. Maybe he didn't deserve the kind of money he got, but Samuel is one of the top three CBs in the league. Sheppard would be a good replacement, but he's not Asante Samuel.

I thought part of the Patriots Fan Charter was to throw former players under the bus?

He was over-rated, benefitting from the system in NE.

 

[cartmen]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

Dumb to say NE is a SB lock with Sheppard,While Sheppard is a very good player he is not a total defense improver IMO but a good piece to the puzzle,The whole defense must play at TOP level to get to where they want to go.

Besides everyone knows how complex the Patriots D schemes are and not every good player fits well and may struggle especially early in thier time here - Ask Adalius Thomas how hard it is to change teams and different defenses.

how is it dumb?? The division is a cake walk at least for the next 2 years. there is no one that will challenge them. Colts, Chargers, and Jags are the only real threats and the Pats should only have to play one or two of those at the most. The schedule that is out there on paper is easily a 13-3 season show me where that isn't good for at least a 2 seed and a bye. While Colvin is a loss if he heals I see him signing back with us but our LB's will be better with the young guys showing their value this year. Isnt this the forum that has guys sporting the young stud LB's in sigs everytime i come in here? I see no problem with 13-3 a 1 or 2 seed and we take out the Colts in the Conf Champ game. Going to Tampa to play...Cowboys

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

how is it dumb?? The division is a cake walk at least for the next 2 years. there is no one that will challenge them. Colts, Chargers, and Jags are the only real threats and the Pats should only have to play one or two of those at the most. The schedule that is out there on paper is easily a 13-3 season show me where that isn't good for at least a 2 seed and a bye. While Colvin is a loss if he heals I see him signing back with us but our LB's will be better with the young guys showing their value this year. Isnt this the forum that has guys sporting the young stud LB's in sigs everytime i come in here? I see no problem with 13-3 a 1 or 2 seed and we take out the Colts in the Conf Champ game. Going to Tampa to play...Cowboys

You're looking at a division with Buffalo as an obvious wild card contender, barring injuries. You're looking at a divison where the Jets are trying to improve over last year and (if they get their QB situation figured out) very well could. And you're looking at a division in which the Dolphins are now under the leadership of Bill Parcells. His record speaks for itself, frankly. And the Dolphins will be better than 1-15 this year. This division will be won, but it won't be a cakewalk again.

 

[SuperStang83]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

I don't think that we need Lito back there at all. I would be more than happy bringing in some young talent for a lot less money.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

Colts, Chargers, and Jags are the only real threats and the Pats should only have to play one or two of those at the most.

And if those games come in January and we lose ONE of them, we do not go to the Super Bowl.

Henceforth, 2008 /= lock for super bowl. Unless you think there's no way any of those teams can beat us. Ever.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

Although I am not sure the Pats would actually trade for Shepard, the tandem of Shepard, Bryant, and Hobbs is an upgrade in my eyes over Samuel, Gay, and Hobbs (assuming Shepard can stay healthy). Samuel is better than Shepard, but Bryant is better than Gay.

If the Pats want to move back to more of a press coverage, Shepard is actually better suited for the Pats' defense than Samuel. I think the Pats have moved more to a zone coverage set in part because of the chuck rule emphasis and also in part because Samuel's man skills sucks and he his a very good zone CB.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

Are you saying he's not an upgrade over Fernando Bryant, Jason Webster, a cornern we'd draft in the 3rd round, or Ellis Hobbs for that matter?

I think he was saying that Lito said he wants to be paid as an elite CB, and since Lito has yet to play a full NFL season, he might not be worth $7-8 Mil a year.

 

[RayClay]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

At least the writer didn't imply this is anything but his speculation. It would be nice if the thread title alluded to that.

Yeah, I guess the Redskins are going to use the draft all of a sudden.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

I think Samuel's a top-tier corner...in New England.

Elsewhere? I just don't see it. Hey, I could be wrong, but I think Samuel's going to be just another corner in Philly.

FYI-Marcus Trufant was initially on Philly's radar(before Seattle tagged him, and then resigned him, that is).

Trufant is a pure man-man cover corner that's much more ideal for Jim Johnson's schemes, which is why it surprised the heck out of me when they ended up paying Samuels a bucket load of money.

 

[JoePats]

DTF, you see him more than most of us, as an NFC East fan...What do you think of Lito?

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

DTF, you see him more than most of us, as an NFC East fan...What do you think of Lito?

1. He's not THAT injury prone. From what I understand-he's started like 82% of games during his career. Yeah-he missed significant time in '05(but so did pretty much 90% of the Birds' roster, including Westbrook, McNabb, etc). However-he only missed like the first 3 games to start '06, and like the first 4 to start '07. Usually-he's been a STRONG finisher in terms of health.(although he did injure his elbow in the '06 WCG against the Giants-although to be fair, these NFCE matchups are so physical, that alot of bodies end up flying around. For example, every time we play the Eagles, we would come out with guys hobbling)

If anything too-the Philly media has a knack for running a smear campaign against those players that appear "on the wrong side"(i.e. just think about Bush's "You're either with or against us" comment back in '03). Once you're on their wrong track, like McNabb(and for that matter, Charles Barkley many years ago) has been several times, WIP and the rest of the large Philly media media will run a large smear campaign against them, like they're doing now against Lito.

2. With all the praise Jim Johnson and his Philly D's pass rush get, you RARELY ever hear anything(praise or otherwise) from their secondary. I can honestly tell you that while yes-Philly's pass rush is VERY strong(probably strong enough to hide even a Roy Williams' weakness in coverage), Lito has nonetheless shown why he's a pure man-man cover corner. He's very physical, especially at the LOS. He even shut down TERRELL OWENS *three times* since TO became a Cowboy. Yes-THREE times he just manhandled, pretty much, this physically gifted wideout. And his brilliant game against Randy Moss last year WASN'T the first time he manhandled him as well(he did so when Randy was a Vike).

Sheldon Brown has been just as effective. If anything-both of their strengths are disrupting the timing of the receivers' routes at the LOS.(which is probably the most important aspect of any corner's game in today's NFL)

And no-it's RARE that they'll get Brian Dawkins with safety help over the top with whoever's playing corner in JJ's schemes. Despite this, both have played remarkably, IMHO.

And as for Lito being "injury prone"? People are also forgetting that Brian Westbrook has been on the injury list the last TWO years. Shawn Andrews(their stud Pro Bowl Guard) has had problems staying healthy(IR all of '04, sprained his neck against the Saints in the '06 NFCDG, and then had an ankle/knee problem that bothered him all of last year). Tra Thomas(their Pro Bowl LT) has had problems keeping his back healthy. And despite having problems staying healthy, they ended up putting the franchise tag on LJ Smith anyways.

Point being that if they want to use this "injury prone" excuse to trade him, they why don't they put McNabb, Westbrook, Andrews, and Thomas on the trading block as well?

 

[RayClay]

Thanks for the title change Mods (I assume).

Nothing wrong with some speculation, as long as it's not presented as sourced or fact.

Good show!

 

[FarScapeR]

My initial comment was more towards Belichick's tendency to favor paying big money to players that make everyone around them better. Obviously, Seymour (2 years ago), Brady, Wilfork, Warren, Adalius and Moss fit into this category. In Belichick's defensive backfield, elite corners are a luxury, not a must have.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Re: New England likely Lito Shepherd's '08 team

Lito might do the same thing Moss did. Tear up his old contract

and sign a one year contract for $3 mil plus incentives and be a

free agent next year.

If he did... this would be a giggity deal for the Pats.

 

[BeauSox]

The track record shows that Lito has had horrible luck staying healthy. The track record also shows that ALOT of the iggles have had a rough time of it when it comes to staying on the field.

Perhaps there is a commonality between Lito's injuries, and The rest of the Teams' injuries. A common factor other than the game of football...Perhaps its the training/medical staff. Perhaps its the style of defense they run, or how they practice...

Theres also a track record of Lito being a great player and shutting down great receivers. As another member posted before, He has shut down TO three times, and had a WONDER of a game against Moss Last Season. Tell me what receivers on this level Assante shut down last season? There isn't a play making receiver on this level in our division.

Many times last season Assante would cover the opposing teams' number 2, as Hobbs would draw the tougher match.

Im not making the arguement that Assante sucks, nor am I making the argument that Lito is a better DB or even on the same level as Samuel, but I am arguing Lito has SHUTDOWN great recievers,

Comparing Lito and Samuel may be like comparing apple to oranges, as they are both very different in their style of play.

Samuel is a Ballhawk, an excellent route jumping ZONE corner, but isn't really known for completely taking away another teams best receiver.

Lito is a Man - Man corner. He CAN completely take away an opposing teams best receiver, Perhaps the reason he doesn't possess the flashy stats is because teams dont throw the ball his way, due to the receiver not being open.

Lito being on this team, would Change the type of secondary scheme we run. The knock against him not "making everyone around him better" is crap and heres why:

to Quote Disgruntled tuna fan:

If anything-both(both meaning Lito Sheppard And Sheldon Brown) of their strengths are disrupting the timing of the receivers' routes at the LOS.(which is probably the most important aspect of any corner's game in today's NFL)

He disrupts the receiver at the Line of scrimmage, thus throwing the timing of the route off, making it take LONGER. This IMMENSELY helps the pass rush!!! One hand washes the other...

Now in conclusion...The cost!

Using this Value Chart, I dont see Why a Swap of First Rounders(moving from 7 - 19), and the inclusion of OUR late third wouldn't work. Perhaps, you get away with including a 4th rounder, or not including a pick at all...

And his Contract? Give him a new one!!! He plays for 4 million this year, a pay raise. If he shows he is worth it, OBVIOUSLY, he gets a ~4 million March Roster Bonus, and 5-6 million a year after that. If hes not worth it? Cut him at no cost...there is no reason you still cant draft a rookie corner this year anyway!(its not like there is one on the board worthy of going #7...)

The rest of his current contract looks like this:
2008: $3,450,000 (2 mil base salary+1.45 mil proration; $2,900,000 dead money if cut)
2009: $4,450,000 (3 mil base salary+1.45 mil proration; $1,450,000 dead money if cut)
2010: $3,700,000 (base salary)
2011: $4,250,000 (base salary)


Bottom line
Lito is a 100% PROVEN quantity when compared to the CB's in the 2008 draft. He can Help RIGHT NOW. He has SHUTDOWN top talent in the NFL Somewhat consistently. Dom Capers is our Defensive Backs Coach. Even if he starts 10 games next season due to injury, Odds are thats 100% better than if we played with a rookie on the roster for 19 games while starting Bryant.

I say the Benefit Far Outweighs the Risk. If BB were to pickup Lito, I would not be opposed! Im firmly in the Lito to the Pats Camp. Now...let me start my novel post in support of Pacman! Lets make it Rain! :bricks:

 

[slash83]

The track record shows that Lito has had horrible luck staying healthy. The track record also shows that ALOT of the iggles have had a rough time of it when it comes to staying on the field.

Perhaps there is a commonality between Lito's injuries, and The rest of the Teams' injuries. A common factor other than the game of football...Perhaps its the training/medical staff. Perhaps its the style of defense they run, or how they practice...

Theres also a track record of Lito being a great player and shutting down great receivers. As another member posted before, He has shut down TO three times, and had a WONDER of a game against Moss Last Season. Tell me what receivers on this level Assante shut down last season? There isn't a play making receiver on this level in our division.

Many times last season Assante would cover the opposing teams' number 2, as Hobbs would draw the tougher match.

Im not making the arguement that Assante sucks, nor am I making the argument that Lito is a better DB or even on the same level as Samuel, but I am arguing Lito has SHUTDOWN great recievers,

Comparing Lito and Samuel may be like comparing apple to oranges, as they are both very different in their style of play.

Samuel is a Ballhawk, an excellent route jumping ZONE corner, but isn't really known for completely taking away another teams best receiver.

Lito is a Man - Man corner. He CAN completely take away an opposing teams best receiver, Perhaps the reason he doesn't possess the flashy stats is because teams dont throw the ball his way, due to the receiver not being open.

Lito being on this team, would Change the type of defense we run. The knock against him not "making everyone around him better" is crap and heres why:

to Quote Disgruntled tuna fan:
He disrupts the receiver at the Line of scrimmage, thus throwing the timing of the route off, making it take LONGER. This IMMENSELY helps the pass rush!!! One hand washes the other...

Now in conclusion...The cost!

Using this Value Chart, I dont see Why a Swap of First Rounders(moving from 7 - 19), and the inclusion of OUR late third wouldnt work. Perhaps, you get away with including a 4th rounder, or not including a pick at all...

And his Contract? Give him an Extension! He plays for 4 million this year. If he shows he is worth it, OBVIOUSLY, he gets a ~4 million March Roster Bonus, and 5-6 million a year after that.

The rest of his current contract looks like this:
2008: $3,450,000 (2 mil base salary+1.45 mil proration; $2,900,000 dead money if cut)
2009: $4,450,000 (3 mil base salary+1.45 mil proration; $1,450,000 dead money if cut)
2010: $3,700,000 (base salary)
2011: $4,250,000 (base salary)


Bottom line
Lito is a 100% PROVEN quantity when compared to the CB's in the 2008 draft. He can Help RIGHT NOW. He has SHUTDOWN top talent in the NFL Somewhat consistently. Dom Capers is our Defensive Backs Coach. Even if he starts 10 games next season due to injury, Odds are thats 100% better than if we played with a rookie on the roster for 19 games while starting Bryant.

I say the Benefit Far Outweighs the Risk. If BB were to pickup Lito, I would not be opposed! Im firmly in the Lito to the Pats Camp. Now...let me start my novel post in support of Pacman! Lets make it Rain! :bricks:

great post....

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Another thing-Lito's natural side is on the Left side(isn't this also Asante's natural side?), while Sheldon's natural side is on the right.

To be frank-I just can't see how the Eagles can make room for him. Although there IS talk of moving Sheldon to SS(or to nickel), but again-Lito isn't comfortable on that right side.