OLine's 2-4 Record Crappiness Stabilized, 7 wins in a row now

[stinkypete]

I think forcing Owenu into LG was an example of trying to force the better player into a more valued slot along the line. At this point we have evidence to suggest that Owenu plays better on the right side than the left. I'd say we also have enough evidence to suggest that Owenu isn't really better than Karras at LG. Time to forget about what the best 5 look like on paper, and stick with the best 5 on the field.

I'm 100% on board with moving Trent Brown back to LT, and rolling with a Brown/Wynn/Andrews/Mason/Owenu line. That line would be top 5.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Onwenu struggled at left guard, why do we think Wynn can slide inside and play guard better than onwenu did?

 

[slash83]

If Brown is inserted at LT I would rather roll with Karras at LG over Wynn.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

OLine has played well the last 1.5 games with Michael Onwenu at RT and Karras at LG. People who keep trying to force Onwenu to LG are not accepting reality and putting a square in a round peg and refusing to admit their theories are just flat out wrong.

It raises the question of why the Patriots feel/felt he's a better fit at LG.

I would think RT is a more important position; even if his ceiling there is a bit lower than at LG, his performance is so much better than anyone else they can play there that it's worth it.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I think forcing Owenu into LG was an example of trying to force the better player into a more valued slot along the line. At this point we have evidence to suggest that Owenu plays better on the right side than the left. I'd say we also have enough evidence to suggest that Owenu isn't really better than Karras at LG. Time to forget about what the best 5 look like on paper, and stick with the best 5 on the field.

I'm 100% on board with moving Trent Brown back to LT, and rolling with a Brown/Wynn/Andrews/Mason/Owenu line. That line would be top 5.

LG isn't the more valued spot. And no top lineup should include thinking Durant or Herron could start and play RT. But this staff tried to do that for 6 weeks. It was embrassingly stupid.

.

 

[captain stone]

Onwenu struggled at left guard, why do we think Wynn can slide inside and play guard better than onwenu did?

Wynn/Lose is much, Much more athletic than Big Mike... In fact, the dude's a natural LG.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Wynn/Lose is much, Much more athletic than Big Mike... In fact, the dude's a natural LG.

Wynn was a good guard in college. He gets injured constantly at LT. But we have mediocre staff who are simplistically locked in mentally that Onwenu is a LG, Wynn is a LT, and think Durant / Cajuste can play RT.

These are the same morons who kept starting NKeal Harry last year and buried Jacobi Meyers on the bench for 6 weeks last season. The staff has no clue how to evaluate talent.

 

[VrabelJr]

Wynn was a good guard in college. He gets injured constantly at LT. But we have mediocre staff who are simplistically locked in mentally that Onwenu is a LG, Wynn is a LT, and think Durant / Cajuste can play RT.

These are the same morons who kept starting NKeal Harry last year and buried Jacobi Meyers on the bench for 6 weeks last season. The staff has no clue how to evaluate talent.

The other 31 teams in the NFL also have fan forums.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The other 31 teams in the NFL also have fan forums.

Yeah but it's so fun being consistently right about the flaws and problems with such a dumb staff currently around BB. Low hanging fruit to call out. These aren't the dynasty Patriots, it's a mediocre staff that was 2-4 before using the exact OLine I've been talking about the last 2 weeks.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

It raises the question of why the Patriots feel/felt he's a better fit at LG.

I would think RT is a more important position; even if his ceiling there is a bit lower than at LG, his performance is so much better than anyone else they can play there that it's worth it.

That's exactly right. Even if Onwenu is slightly rated higher at LG (this year this definitely is not even true), the entire OLine is better if he's at RT because he's a much better RT than anyone else on the team, plus Karras can play decent LG (he's actually been excellent, more than just decent).

.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Hey Trent Brown, maybe lay off twitter until you can get back on the field. While he's dreaming about obj I'm wondering if this guy can be effective without Dante screaming at him.

Trent Brown posts to Instagram dreaming about Odell Beckham Jr. joining the Patriots

Yes, at least one Patriots player is thinking about it.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Wynn is the 3rd highest rated right tackle this season. But the oc wants to move him back to LG where he and Wynn play terribly next to each other....

.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

That's exactly right. Even if Onwenu is slightly rated higher at LG (this year this definitely is not even true), the entire OLine is better if he's at RT because he's a much better RT than anyone else on the team, plus Karras can play decent LG (he's actually been excellent, more than just decent).

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But isn't Brown a better RT than Onwenu, or at least as good? Most would agree with that. I think what they really like about Onwenu inside is his size. Having a 360lb guard gives us a matchup advantage in the run game, a way to neutralize some of the larger interior DT's we face, and he's a load when pulling. Remember Nate Newton?

Plus Wynn is the most nimble of all of them, and when he's healthy and playing well he's the best pass blocker we have at LT vs speed rushers.

 

[Sicilian]

Onwenu struggled at left guard, why do we think Wynn can slide inside and play guard better than onwenu did?

One theory that some people have floated is that the difference between playing tackle versus guard isn't always as big as the difference between playing the right versus the left side of the line. Some guys are really good at right or left tackle, but can't play the other, which is why a swing tackle can be a really valuable backup piece to have. So it may be that Onwenu's biggest issue with LG wasn't that he was playing guard, but that he was playing left of the center. If Mason wasn't here, and he had moved to RG, it could have been a different story.

This doesn't mean Wynn would instantly be fine playing LG, just that Onwenu's experience there wouldn't be comparing apples to apples.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

But isn't Brown a better RT than Onwenu, or at least as good? Most would agree with that. I think what they really like about Onwenu inside is his size. Having a 360lb guard gives us a matchup advantage in the run game, a way to neutralize some of the larger interior DT's we face, and he's a load when pulling. Remember Nate Newton?

Plus Wynn is the most nimble of all of them, and when he's healthy and playing well he's the best pass blocker we have at LT vs speed rushers.

1. Is this true though. Brown has always been a mediocre injury prone right tackle, look at his career history. His 1 good year was at left tackle for the Pats.

2. And again you're speaking in theoreticals about Wynn. Why is Wynn leading the entire OLine in QB pressures given up (18 so far) as a pass protector ??

3. Again let's ditch the hypotheticals. Onwenu next to Wynn for the first 6 weeks was a total disaster. At what point do people ditch theoreticals and practically look at the on field results ??

 

[ashley]

I think @DropKickFlutie made a good point in the other thread about Wynn....I don't think it's a wise decision to move him to LG where he hasn't played in a few years. I know this isn't going to be popular amongst Patriot fans, but I would go with a lineup of Brown/Karras/Andrews/Mason/Onwenu

I understand that Onwenu is a better guard than Karras, but having two all pro tackles to me is more important and Karras isn't horrible, I would say he is an average/above average guard. I worry about the big sack with Wynn and that image of Gregory throwing Wynn over keeps coming to my mind.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I think @DropKickFlutie made a good point in the other thread about Wynn....I don't think it's a wise decision to move him to LG where he hasn't played in a few years. I know this isn't going to be popular amongst Patriot fans, but I would go with a lineup of Brown/Karras/Andrews/Mason/Onwenu

I understand that Onwenu is a better guard than Karras, but having two all pro tackles to me is more important and Karras isn't horrible, I would say he is an average/above average guard. I worry about the big sack with Wynn and that image of Gregory throwing Wynn over keeps coming to my mind.

Interesting about Wynn. Whether it's Wynn or Karras at LG (or even Wynn at LT until he inevitably gets hurt again), I'm neutral on the left side. I believe very strongly that Onwenu at Right Tackle is key for the entire OLine and it's proven to be the case the last 3 weeks. Keep Big Mike at RT. Wynn-Onwenu on the left side is an absolute disaster.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

One theory that some people have floated is that the difference between playing tackle versus guard isn't always as big as the difference between playing the right versus the left side of the line. Some guys are really good at right or left tackle, but can't play the other, which is why a swing tackle can be a really valuable backup piece to have. So it may be that Onwenu's biggest issue with LG wasn't that he was playing guard, but that he was playing left of the center. If Mason wasn't here, and he had moved to RG, it could have been a different story.

This doesn't mean Wynn would instantly be fine playing LG, just that Onwenu's experience there wouldn't be comparing apples to apples.

Onwenu looks like a 1st round pick RT. And Wynn looks like a scrub playing next to Onwenu but looks better playing next to Karras.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

1. Is this true though. Brown has always been a mediocre injury prone right tackle, look at his career history. His 1 good year was at left tackle for the Pats.

2. And again you're speaking in theoreticals about Wynn. Why is Wynn leading the entire OLine in QB pressures given up (18 so far) as a pass protector ??

3. Again let's ditch the hypotheticals. Onwenu next to Wynn for the first 6 weeks was a total disaster. At what point do people ditch theoreticals and practically look at the on field results ??

I think they were thrown for a loop by the Brown injury. They went thru camp & preseason with him at RT and Onwenu at LG, and I think they felt good about the way that line was performing. Then when Brown got hurt in G1, they expected him back in a week or two, so why mess around with Onwenu when there's some backup RT's that should be able to step in? If they'd gotten a proper read on that injury as a 9-10 week absence, they likely would've moved Onwenu to T. It was only when Brown went on IR, together with the overall performance of the line, that they felt moving Onwenu made sense.

I think in their minds their best line is Wynn at LT, Onwenu at LG, and Brown at RT. That was their plan all along, and they saw it working in preseason. When a line locks in, all 5 guys get better at once. They think Onwenu can be an all-pro OG, and like having a guy his size in the interior. And they may prefer Wynn's quickness on the outside, and also are assuming that Brown's return will cause everyone's play including Wynn's to step up.

 

[Froob]

It'll be awfully interesting to see what they do. I'd hate to break up the OL continuity they have right now.