Oficial Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Cardinals

[IllegalContact]

True on both counts. Yet we blow. Ain't life mysterious?

Been a fan since the "Boston" Patriots, by the way, been through a lot with them, so I guess I'm just not as emotionally fragile as you are. I can face facts.

We blow?

sounds like you weren't paying attention since the "Boston" Patriots.......I've seen this team 'blow', and this ain't it.......you sound more like a pink hat

 

[Grogan14]

We blow?

sounds like you weren't paying attention since the "Boston" Patriots.......I've seen this team 'blow', and this ain't it.......you sound more like a pink hat

So true...if you want to know what blow looks like go back to the 70's and early 80's when a 3-13 record was considered a great success and simply having one or two teams worse then you was considered a great season.

 

[PScottman]

Even if we won out, we still need to 3 other teams to lose multiple games to get in the playoffs.

I'm not talking about playoffs. I'm talking about not tanking.

Playing every game to win contributes more to winning culture across the entire team over multiple years. It builds better foundations across all units of the team, improves ability to draw free agents, and allows for more depth. It likewise better ensures that if there is a sudden "fall from grace" (say a rash of injuries for example) that the incoming #1 QB is given a much higher chance of success and ability to capitalize on their talent rather then having their confidence shattered such as what happened to guys like Sanchez and Winston.

I don't disagree that high draft picks for QBs statistically are better QBs overall, but similarly tanking to procure them rather than legitimately losing due to a sudden dearth of talent leads to the Jets, Browns, Tampa Bay outcomes of wasting those high drafted QBs. It's the definition of a Hobson's choice in that neither outcome is especially enticing.

Maybe this was the year to pull a "Suck for Luck" on paper, but while a great QB, did he ultimately get them Super Bowls? And wasn't the coach also a goner too for Indy? I don't think the scenarios are anywhere near close.

You're never going to convince me that losing as a strategy ever leads to long term success.

 

[IllegalContact]

So true...if you want to know what blow looks like go back to the 70's and early 80's when a 3-13 record was considered a great success and simply having one or two teams worse then you was considered a great season.

Cam Newton has one more loss than Tom Brady this year.......bottom line...we are a bunch of game winning drives from 8-3 or 9-2........even though we are not close to being that team

 

[DaBruinz]

How about Dugger today? I like this kid. Was a weird pick, but he’s panning out. Quite the athlete.

I have said before that the kid reminds me of Rodney Harrison in how he plays.

 

[Jim Beankie]

The rule of thumb is get a QB high. The preponderance of data suggests that is the best way to do it

Championships are the only thing that count around here these days, so it's a matter of finding out what a SB winning QB looks like. I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but 11 of the last 21 SB winning QBs were drafted outside of the 1st round (or in a supplemental draft). 8 of them were from the 3rd round or lower (and 4 from the 6th round or lower). Only 4 of them were the top pick (not including supplemental Young) and 7 (including Dilfer) were from the top 10.

 

[mikey m]

Plumbing ever deeper realms of delusion, I see. Very intrepid of you.

So you believe that there's no way we could have come out with Ws in the games against HOU, BUF, DEN, or SEA without a complete overhaul of this team?

 

[DaBruinz]

The game was a total stinker from the entire offense.

The QB had his worst performance of the year reminiscent of that 2 game stretch after the COVID break. Early on overthrows to Meyers, that garbage pass to White on a screen that made James jump to catch the ball and his repeated inability to take dump offs when the play isnt there.

The OL -- most visibly Eluemenor -- just kept screwing up in pass pro and in the run game. On that sweep to Harry he literally ran around clueless not knowing who to block and so Harry was stuffed behind the LOS. On another outside run with Harris he looked so uncomfortable in space barely even pushing the DE to the side. I get that he is an emergency LT but you just have to be better in the run game or simply run more behind Mason/Onwenu.

Thank you. I said this in the GDT only to have the Harry Haters pile on about Harry sucking and it being his fault.

Great job by the secondary more or less locking down the Cards except for a couple absolutely ridiculous throws by Kyler. The one on third & long to their TE while falling backwards stands out. What a friggin completion.

The one problem is that the only reason that he was able to complete that pass was that TWO Patriots defenders were tackled on the play as they got by the O-linemen and nothing was called.

The game showcased once again one of the big issues plaguing the team this year which is lack of depth.

Are you referring to the issue on the O-line? or are you referring to LB? Or the D-Line ? Or all 3?

 

[JMC00]

people slagging off Gilmore





Still a top tier CB

 

[JMC00]

BUF, DEN, or SEA

Anyone saying these weren't winnable with this current team are trolling

-Seattle, Cam bounces to the outside, that's a win

-Denver, if the offense got to practice more than 2 times in the 2 weeks leading up probably would have been a bit better in that one.

-Buffalo, if McDaniels feeds Harris at the end or Cam has the ball in his left arm at worst that game goes to OT

I mean all 3 games came down to the Pats in or near the redzone with the chance to win. So not sure how someone can say those weren't winnable with the current team.

Hell even KC is an arguable win if Newton played, they were in that game for 3.5 quarters with Hoyer. Newton's running ability would have helped in that one

 

[bobbutts]

You guys wishing for tanking should become Dolphins and 76ers fans.

 

[luuked]

Are you referring to the issue on the O-line? or are you referring to LB? Or the D-Line ? Or all 3?

Everything. Early on the tight cap screwed them from picking up the usual underappreciated pieces (like eg. Lawrence Guy), then the opt outs didnt help either and finally injuries result in us playing with clear vulnerabilities every week (this week it was no big bodies in the DL against the run).

I get that some of it is inevitable, some due to missed picks and some just a consequence of consistently spending close to the cap. But just take eg. Butler out of this game and you most likely end up with a similar issue like last week.

 

[lancerman]

Aaron Rodgers was never projected #1 in that draft. It was never even really debated whether it was alex smith or rodgers going into the draft.

.

Smith was more likely to go but it was a debate and Rodgers had a camera in his face and his fall was the entire draft discussion the couple hours. It was probably the biggest live draft fall since the 2000’s

 

[patsinthesnow]

The team wants to dream of running the table. The remaining QBs are all inconsistent & these two gotta keep playing at a high level.

 

[Ring 6]

How about Dugger today? I like this kid. Was a weird pick, but he’s panning out. Quite the athlete.

Belichick has been looking for a the kind of player Dugger could become for 20 years. If he grows into it there is a critical role for him. Hightower may be the most versatile defender belichick has had here and Dugger was drafted to grow into the Hightower of the secondary.

 

[jdlboot14]

people getting into the playoff discussion is useless. Sure, we could squeak out some wins and have a chance for a wildcard in the best case scenario, but then what? Get embarrassed even worse than last year in the first round? The only reason I'm still hoping and rooting for a winning record is for BB's legacy. But, more post season losses won't help. This year is about who to keep for next year's rebuild. I'm actually excited about a few of our young guys getting good experience this year.

 

[Ring 6]

The team wants to dream of running the table. The remaining QBs are all inconsistent & these two gotta keep playing at a high level.

There isn’t a team left on the schedule that this team shouldn’t beat if the qb doesn’t screw it up. But asking newton not to screw up 5 consecutive games at this point in his career is a tall order.

 

[lancerman]

I'm not talking about playoffs. I'm talking about not tanking.

Playing every game to win contributes more to winning culture across the entire team over multiple years. It builds better foundations across all units of the team, improves ability to draw free agents, and allows for more depth. It likewise better ensures that if there is a sudden "fall from grace" (say a rash of injuries for example) that the incoming #1 QB is given a much higher chance of success and ability to capitalize on their talent rather then having their confidence shattered such as what happened to guys like Sanchez and Winston.

I don't disagree that high draft picks for QBs statistically are better QBs overall, but similarly tanking to procure them rather than legitimately losing due to a sudden dearth of talent leads to the Jets, Browns, Tampa Bay outcomes of wasting those high drafted QBs. It's the definition of a Hobson's choice in that neither outcome is especially enticing.

Maybe this was the year to pull a "Suck for Luck" on paper, but while a great QB, did he ultimately get them Super Bowls? And wasn't the coach also a goner too for Indy? I don't think the scenarios are anywhere near close.

You're never going to convince me that losing as a strategy ever leads to long term success.

People keep talking about culture but there is absolutely no evidence this matters.

Packers had a winning culture.... until Starr retired.

Steelers had a winning culture..., until Bradshaw and Noll left. Then they were mediocre with a few good seasons until Ben came along.

Niner’s had an amazing culture until Young left. Then they became mediocre until Smith got there and gave them some shots.

Shula had a great culture in Miami. What have the Dolphins done since Marino left.

Now the Patriots, had an amazing culture for 20 years. Best in the NFL. On the verge of their first losing season right after Brady left.

There is zero evidence that culture matters to the degree people are saying, that it can sustain losing a high end player at the top position OR that tanking one year would destroy it and it can’t be immediately fixed with a new top talent (we literally saw Indy do this)

I firmly believe 4-5 weeks ago was the time to pull the plug on this and just get a QB the year the whole world was ready to give a mulligan to Belichick and the team. Next year if we don’t have a QB people won’t be as forgiving. It is a desperate need right now and it’s really going to determine a lot of outcomes the next few years

 

[IllegalContact]

You guys wishing for tanking should become Dolphins and 76ers fans.

Colts sucked for Luck.....how'd that work out?

 

[sb1]

People keep talking about culture but there is absolutely no evidence this matters.

Packers had a winning culture.... until Starr retired.

Steelers had a winning culture..., until Bradshaw and Noll left. Then they were mediocre with a few good seasons until Ben came along.

Niner’s had an amazing culture until Young left. Then they became mediocre until Smith got there and gave them some shots.

Shula had a great culture in Miami. What have the Dolphins done since Marino left.

Now the Patriots, had an amazing culture for 20 years. Best in the NFL. On the verge of their first losing season right after Brady left.

There is zero evidence that culture matters to the degree people are saying, that it can sustain losing a high end player at the top position OR that tanking one year would destroy it and it can’t be immediately fixed with a new top talent (we literally saw Indy do this)

I firmly believe 4-5 weeks ago was the time to pull the plug on this and just get a QB the year the whole world was ready to give a mulligan to Belichick and the team. Next year if we don’t have a QB people won’t be as forgiving. It is a desperate need right now and it’s really going to determine a lot of outcomes the next few years

Belichick and the coaching staff wouldn't have gotten a mulligan for 2-14. Bill would have been gone....and rightfully so.

2-14 would also have been a stain on Bill's legacy. I for one would no longer consider him GOAT coach if that had been how it played out.