Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Saints beat the Pats

[ralmat55]

I was trying to explain to a young person the other day what a record sounded like when the needle got stuck. I was frustrated in doing so until I turned to having them read DropKickFlutie posts in any thread. The young person now understands and also loves Josh McDaniels.

 

[Mack Herron]

@DaBruinz you're feeling about Andrews seems right

Not going to get easier vs. Vita Vea et al.

 

[SVN]

 

[50-yard-line]

All you’ve done - in the last exchange and now - is walk me through how market value is established. Of 32 teams, the team who pays market value in free agency, is the team that is willing to pay more than 31 other teams. You gloss over that unless you’ve rationalized why Bill passed on Julio Jones with the same reasoning, also known as The Winner’s Curse. Proving that the Patriots didn’t overpay based on market value is nonsensical. No one has ever overpaid in that sense. Every free agent signing made sense if a team was willing to offer it. This is why free agency is often a terrible idea when it comes to expensive players. That’s an idea Bill himself subscribed to for many years.

As for Jonnu Smith, there’s so much irony when you cite his five year resume and track record, which is exactly what I’ve cited as why he’s closer to a JAG than an elite player as his contract would indicate. Of course he isn’t as terrible as he was yesterday. Sure, he’ll have some good games and make some big plays. But his floor and ceiling are both so much lower than his contract is calling for, and we saw the low floor yesterday.

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Meh, all half the board does is complain. Complain when they don't spend the FA splash, complain when they do. Smith and Henry were the two best TEs available in FA (along with Gronk, who wasn't really available, and certainly not here).

They were given a "market value" of 11m early on in the depressed market. The Pats wanted both, had the money, got both in the correct range.
The idea that they were terrible, grossly overpaid signings is ridiculous whining.

Smith is easily the most explosive YAC guy on the team. Many people - Reiss for one - thought him a better fit for New England than Henry. It's up to the OC and Mac to get them the ball, particularly in the red zone.

They wanted two new TEs, they got the best two available. So yes, do whine on.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Meh, all half the board does is complain. Complain when they don't spend the FA splash, complain when they do. Smith and Henry were the two best TEs available in FA (along with Gronk, who wasn't really available, and certainly not here).

They were given a "market value" of 11m early on in the depressed market. The Pats wanted both, had the money, got both in the correct range.
The idea that they were terrible, grossly overpaid signings is ridiculous whining.

Smith is easily the most explosive YAC guy on the team. Many people - Reiss for one - thought him a better fit for New England than Henry. It's up to the OC and Mac to get them the ball, particularly in the red zone.

So far he is more known for drops, 1 fumble and cost an interception. Had 16 targets and 10 catches. 0 touchdowns. I don't think it is fair to blame this all on the OC and Mac for this.

They wanted two new TEs, they got the best two available. So yes, do whine on.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Meh, all half the board does is complain. Complain when they don't spend the FA splash, complain when they do. Smith and Henry were the two best TEs available in FA (along with Gronk, who wasn't really available, and certainly not here).

They were given a "market value" of 11m early on in the depressed market. The Pats wanted both, had the money, got both in the correct range.
The idea that they were terrible, grossly overpaid signings is ridiculous whining.

Smith is easily the most explosive YAC guy on the team. Many people - Reiss for one - thought him a better fit for New England than Henry. It's up to the OC and Mac to get them the ball, particularly in the red zone.

They wanted two new TEs, they got the best two available. So yes, do whine on.

Sad when you argue for this long and then use the “whine” and “complain” cop-out.

I’ve been consistent about FA value since I began posting here 15 years ago. I’ve given >95% praise for the Patriots over the years for how they’ve approached free agency, while laughing at the Jets/Bills/Dolphins for making these types of moves.

Consider that you’ve largely dismissed criticism from posters like myself, rationalized everything Bill has done, and come up with bizarre reason people are critical of the team, other than their observations.

Maybe, in fact, many are not whining/criticizing for the sake of it or complaining because they hate Bill or are angry about Brady but have been doing so because they’re looking at things objectively. What you’re seeing on the field should make you question whether or not second guessers have been onto something after all.

 

[Hyped]

My thoughts:

- Blocked punt

- 2nd kick out of bounds thus setting up the opponent on their 40 this year

- Mac getting hit as he throws his first INT, Jonnu giving Jenkins the easiest pick six of his career, and the last INT not being important as we were down 15 and needed to score fast.

- Henry's false start on a 4th and 1 attempt.

- The defense gave up 21 points. 1st, they gave up their usual early TD before bucking down. 2nd, the second touchdown was off a short field..and made by a lucky Winston wounded duck throw that even Payton did not like, and 3rd...the final TD after the Saints had already moved into easy figgie range. And we also probably should have allowed an additional 6 points from figgies that were missed.

- While allowing 21 points is an "okay job"...we need to stiffen up in the red zone and force figgies. And it continues a troubling trend in which we cannot stop the opponent when we need the ball back (week 1 vs. Miami after Harris' fumble and yesterday after Bourne scored).

- Mac attempting 51 passes is just not a good recipe for success and he was off on some deep throws as well. Also, Mac took another ugly sack...we need to add a dump off receiver for Mac at all times, IMO. Just some place for him to throw the ball into the dirt when he faces pressure.

- 11 hits? Damn...I know Brown is out, but it isn't as if Mac is running bootlegs and exposing himself. Yeah, he might hold the ball a bit too long, but we have to protect the kid!

- They should have gone shotgun/spread as soon as we fell behind 21-3. Too much under center snaps, IMO. Give Jones a chance...and I absolutely hated those two Bolden runs when we were in the red zone down 21-3.....

- Olszewski needs to make a play or two to flip the field at least 1-2 times a game, IMO. We need contributions from everybody on this team to help Mac, IMO.

- I liked seeing JJ Taylor out there and hope he can step in for White going forward.

- I know the Saints run D is tough, but run it off the left side with a TE, Jakobi, and Harris a few more times...dammnit!

 

[bresna]

Does anyone have a screenshot of the play where JJ Taylor almost got his neck broken? On the replay, it certainly looked like the defender dove head first into him and initiated helmet-to-helmet contact. I was really expecting a flag there. Isn't that what that whole rule was put into place to prevent? The announcers completely ignored it.

 

[50-yard-line]

So far he is more known for drops, 1 fumble and cost an interception. Had 16 targets and 10 catches. 0 touchdowns. I don't think it is fair to blame this all on the OC and Mac for this.

So he's catching at 62.5%, even after yesterday's disaster.

And how many have been thrown his way near the end zone? Brandon Bolden has had a better shot at a touchdown than either Pat tight ends.

 

[50-yard-line]

Sad when you argue for this long and then use the “whine” and “complain” cop-out.

I’ve been consistent about FA value since I began posting here 15 years ago. I’ve given >95% praise for the Patriots over the years for how they’ve approached free agency, while laughing at the Jets/Bills/Dolphins for making these types of moves.

Consider that you’ve largely dismissed criticism from posters like myself, rationalized everything Bill has done, and come up with bizarre reason people are critical of the team, other than their observations.

Maybe, in fact, many are not whining/criticizing for the sake of it or complaining because they hate Bill or are angry about Brady but have been doing so because they’re looking at things objectively. What you’re seeing on the field should make you question whether or not second guessers have been onto something after all.

I don't rationalize everything Bill has done, so start and end this newest attempt at a comeback right there, okay.

Sony Michel getting traded comes to mind as a recent example.

And what I'm seeing on the field is pretty much what I expected (although the concerns I do have aren't all the ones I expected (OL)!). 25 new players, rookie QB, and if not for a Damien Harris uncharacteristic fumble, they're 2-1, with 2 division wins.

Regarding FA, I'm thrilled they went out and took advantage of the down cap and their cleared money. THRILLED. They brought in some really good players - Judon, Henry, Smith, and Bourne. Mills has played well, too. Their roster was terrible. It's not anymore. They've got a lot to work on, and I expect them to do so.

I do have coaching concerns, but not at the top.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

So he's catching at 62.5%, even after yesterday's disaster.

And how many have been thrown his way near the end zone? Brandon Bolden has had a better shot at a touchdown than either Pat tight ends.

not enough

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

 

[50-yard-line]

not enough

Exactly.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Exactly.

i think it's fair to say that McD hasn't done the best job so far with his play calling.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Joker]

sometimes YOU get the bull...sometimes you get the HORNS...we've taken the bull by the horns for TWENTY YEARS...sure we're getting gored this season and it looks like it's going to continue. Suck it up sugar plums...stop facking crying and just enjoy the growing pains. I hope you all realize it could be far far far worse...we could have been born JETE FANS...

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I was trying to explain to a young person the other day what a record sounded like when the needle got stuck. I was frustrated in doing so until I turned to having them read DropKickFlutie posts in any thread. The young person now understands and also loves Josh McDaniels.

That's awesome that you completely confused a fake young person in your story about what is considered successful in the game of offensive football. I give this lame attempt a 5/10, something just doesn't work within the contrived nature of the joke. Keep trying! Maybe needs a couple rewrites.

.

 

[ashley]

 

[DaBruinz]

So far he is more known for drops, 1 fumble and cost an interception. Had 16 targets and 10 catches. 0 touchdowns. I don't think it is fair to blame this all on the OC and Mac for this.

Then you haven't been paying attention because the YAC was stated multiple times in the last 2 games.

Smith is averaging 5.6 YAC/Reception thus far. That's very good for a TE..