Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Browns

[ashley]

Recapping the BB call this morning with Mike Reiss:

 

[Bill Lee]

Zappe's highlight reel from yesterday is pure football porn to any Pats fan:

Bailey Zappe's Best Plays | NFL Week 6

www.patriots.com

We all know CLE sucks, but the players still had to execute for the plays to work...

EDIT: That TD pass he squeezed in to Thornton on his 2nd read is definitely NFL starting QB level work.

EDIT: Even the jump ball to Parker was something a lot of NFL QBs would not do or could not do.

Pretty much every skill position player (except KB and his injured toe) flash.

All this, and zero INTs too.

 

[VJCPatriot]

There's a lot to unpack in this win.

First lets get the Caveats out of the way - Browns a pretty bad team. Also we're looking at a very small sample size.

But let's get on to the positives.

-Zappe had a breakout game with 309 yards passing, 70% completion rate, 2 TDs, and most importantly 0 turnovers. This resulted in a QB rating of 118 and completed passes to 7 different receivers. The QB controversy has officially started in New England.

-Despite Wynn's usual brainfarts, the offensive line performed much better this game, keeping Zappe protected for the most part and opening up the holes needed in the run game.

-The Patriots redzone performance was at its best this whole season scoring 5 offensive touchdowns and 1 FG.

-The Patriots under Zappe, spread the ball well, and finally got the tight ends involved in offense, Hunter Henry had a good game with 61 yards and a big TD catch. Speaking of ball distribution, Zappe spread the ball out very well, 4 different receivers produced 60+ yards of offense. Even long forgotten tight end Jhonnu Smith chipped in with 61 yards of his own. The TE utilization was far better under Zappe's lead.

-Rookie WR Tyquan Thornton made an instant impact in his second game with the Patriots. He was utilized in multiple ways to take advantage of his speed, scoring two TDs in his debut NFL game. He scored one in the air on a back of the endzone pattern and on the ground with a jet sweep.

Video shows it better than words:


Look for Thornton to get more involved in the offense in weeks to come, but Thornton's debut impact will not go unnoticed by the coaches. It's a promising start to say the least.

-Rhamondre Stevenson continues to look good as the lead back, scoring 2 TDs and 76 yards. Giving the Patriots a solid running threat to keep the Browns defense honest.

-Switching over to the defense they did a great job containing the Browns. They limited Chubb to 56 yards on just 12 carries. This was key to defending the brown's offense as they got stuck on several 3rd and long situations because their run game was not very productive. Up to this point Chubb had ripped off 4x 110 yard+ games in 5 outings.

-Against the passing game our defensive backs held Jacoby Brissett to only 266 yards on 47% passing 1 TD and 2 INTs allowed with a pedestrian 54.5 passer rating. Jalen Mills and Kyle Dugger picked off his passes and the defense helped win the turnover battle yet again. The Browns offense couldn't get much going at all today.

Is this an exciting win? Sure. There were a lot of positives to take from this win. Rookie 4th round pick Bailey Zappe had his best performance yet. The offense scored the most points it has all year, and the defense definitely did well to shut down one of the best RBs in the conference in Nick Chubb while holding the Browns to mostly field goals.

What we need to see going forward - continued strong performances by Bailey Zappe. Continued even ball distribution among the receivers so no single player can be taken out of the game. Increased utilization of rookie Tyquan Thornton, as his extraordinary speed can be used in multiple ways, both on the ground and through the air.

Finally we've got to remind ourselves - it's only the Browns. But there's now a reason for optimism in New England going forward. We have finally hit a softer portion of the schedule and could potentially turn this stretch of games into a winning streak that could carry the team into the playoffs, provided they continue taking care of the fundamentals and executing well. Is it too early to talk playoffs and QB controversy? Naah, it's never too early to jump the shark.

Next 4 games:
Patriots vs Bears [2-4]
Patriots @ Jets [4-2]
Patriots vs Colts [3-2]
Patriots vs Jets [4-2]

The Bears are bad, possibly even worse than the Browns.
The other 3 teams all have winning records.
The Jets divisional game looms large and... they're actually good this year?
The Colts seem to be rejuvenated under QB Matt Ryan.
The 2nd game of the Jets is important for divisional stakes.

It would be reasonable to expect the Pats to go 2-2 over this stretch, but that conversation can flip to 3-1 if they can overcome the Jets away.

-The Bears are struggling on offense. I don't expect them to regain their form against our top 10 defense. Playing at home and with our offense finally coming to life, on paper this should be a win. [Win confidence 80% Very Likely]

-Big divisional stakes game against the Jets. They are coming off a high after beating Aaron Rodgers and the Packers. Zach Wilson 1st round pick (#2 overall) vs Bailey Zappe 4th round pick (#137) head to head, who do you take to win it? On the one hand we've had the Jet's number, on the other hand road games are always tougher and they are playing their best football as of late. [Win confidence 40% Less Likely]

-The Colts used to be a rivalry game but that's not Peyton Manning back there anymore. Instead it's Matt Ryan but the Colts could be dangerous. Their defense does enough to win and they have a veteran QB. Will Mac Jones be healthy enough to play by this point? Will Zappe stay the Patriots QB by this point? [Win confidence 50% Coin Flip]

-The Jets at home, I like our odds. We'll have our game film on them from the first meeting and a plan to shut down their strengths. Do we sweep the Jets? I don't think so but that would certainly curtail their ambitions in the AFC East. [Win confidence 60% Likely]

But that's just how I see it. Where do you think the Patriots end up at the end of this 4 game stretch? They could end up anywhere between 3-7 to 7-3. I feel 5-5 is most likely, but 6-4, assuming 3 out of 4 wins is possible but that require us to beat the Jets. But who knows someone more optimistic than me might go as far as prediction a 4-0 winning streak. Where do you think the Patriots will land?

 

[ashley]

Looks like Judon's "one sack in every game" streak died...

Yeah, I noticed he was a little quiet yesterday, but I think Cleveland had two players assigned to him on every passing situation.

 

[PatsFan2]

Zappe's accuracy & decision making so far are crazy. These numbers are eye-opening:

• Completion percentage over expected measures how a quarterback is performing relative to the difficulty of their throws. Zappe's currently first in the NFL in CPOE with +8.9. Joe Burrow led the NFL last year in CPOE with +6.7. His completion percentage is 72.9% with three drops as well.
• He's thrown the ball 0 times to the other team on 70 attempts. The INT was on agholor & defenders haven't had the chance to intercept another pass yet.

The pats have to see this through to know what they have in Zappe. It's hard to bench a rookie QB playing at this level IMO.

The Maccarites would disagree with your ending.

 

[VJCPatriot]

2 things:
1) Tyquan played last week against the Lions.
2) Next 4 games:
Patriots vs Bears [2-4]
Patriots @ Jets [4-2]
Patriots vs Colts [3-2]
Patriots vs Jets [4-2]

Thanks for the corrections.
I didn't even notice Thornton out there against the Lions, he was invisible to me. But I do see he had some offensive snaps listed.
I also read the schedule wrong.
Let me fix some things up.

 

[Bill Lee]

The QB controversy has officially started in New England.

Maybe amongst the fans and the media, but it's pretty clear to me at least that the coaches feel it's still Mac's job.

-Against the passing game our defensive backs held Jacoby Brissett to only 266 yards on 47% passing 1 TD and 2 INTs allowed with a pedestrian 54.5 passer rating. Jalen Mills and Kyle Dugger picked off his passes and the defense helped win the turnover battle yet again. The Browns offense couldn't get much going at all today.

Giving the devil its due, Njoku, Peoples-Jones and Cooper all made impressive catches, but all were highly contested and perhaps due to Brisette being a bit too willing to take chances, which has been an issue of his since his days as a rookie here in NE.

Finally we've got to remind ourselves - it's only the Browns. But there's now a reason for optimism in New England going forward.

We've still got a lot of work to do. Our special teams did flub the kickoff recovery. That should never happen. The announcers said it was literally a 1 in 50 chance that CLE could get the ball back, they almost did. We were saved by the CLE guy having his foot out of bounds. CLE also fumbled the punt at a key juncture in the game so we got a cheap set of downs deep in their end of the field instead of CLE going on offense. We shot ourselves in the foot with lots of penalties. Overall the better team won, but we gotta admit it wasn't as easy as the final score suggests.

But that's just how I see it. Where do you think the Patriots end up at the end of this 4 game stretch? They could end up anywhere between 3-7 to 7-3. I feel 5-5 is most likely, but 6-4, assuming 3 out of 4 wins is possible but will require us to beat the Jets.

I vote 6-4 with us beating the Jets at least once if not twice. They ain't as good as their record suggests, we're playing better than our record suggests. Today's performance would have beaten GB convincingly.

 

[VrabelJr]

Zappe's highlight reel from yesterday is pure football porn to any Pats fan:

Bailey Zappe's Best Plays | NFL Week 6

www.patriots.com

We all know CLE sucks, but the players still had to execute for the plays to work...

EDIT: That TD pass he squeezed in to Thornton on his 2nd read is definitely NFL starting QB level work.

EDIT: Even the jump ball to Parker was something a lot of NFL QBs would not do or could not do.

Pretty much every skill position player (except KB and his injured toe) flash.

All this, and zero INTs too.

Agreed. When I saw that pass all I could think was that it was very Mahomes like.

 

[catent]

Zappe's highlight reel from yesterday is pure football porn to any Pats fan:

Bailey Zappe's Best Plays | NFL Week 6

www.patriots.com

We all know CLE sucks, but the players still had to execute for the plays to work...

EDIT: That TD pass he squeezed in to Thornton on his 2nd read is definitely NFL starting QB level work.

EDIT: Even the jump ball to Parker was something a lot of NFL QBs would not do or could not do.

Pretty much every skill position player (except KB and his injured toe) flash.

All this, and zero INTs too.

My favorite play was the last clip, beginning at 1:50. The way he felt the blindside pressure and stepped up, kept his eyes downfield, and then made an accurate throw against tight coverage. Good lord, that's really good stuff.

 

[upstater1]

Oh and something I forgot in my earlier post - How did these referees miss the very obvious facemask call against the Patriots? It was right there out in the open. If anything, there was clear contact with QB Brissett's head, which is supposed to be a penalty but on replay, the facemask was clear as day. The Patriots (Wise?) got lucky there. I shouldn't complain since it benefited the Pats but still... that was bad refereeing.

I call it discretion and it's a good job by the ref. Defender is about to sack the QB when a lineman grabs him and hauls him away causing the defender to grab the helmet. He had the QB dead to rights, and that's a sack if not for the hold that comes before the facemask.

Good use of judgment by the ref.

 

[ivanvamp]

Some rookie stats:

And that one catch he (Marcus) allowed featured a very obvious and blatant push off by the WR, which should have been (but wasn't) flagged for OPI. He had perfect coverage on that one.

 

[bresna]

I call it discretion and it's a good job by the ref. Defender is about to sack the QB when a lineman grabs him and hauls him away causing the defender to grab the helmet. He had the QB dead to rights, and that's a sack if not for the hold that comes before the facemask.

Good use of judgment by the ref.

What you are saying is that the correct call was offsetting penalties. That is not something that is decided by the referees "live". They should have thrown the flag for the obvious facemask and if they then decide that there was holding when they huddle up, they can announce, "There were 2 penalties on the play. One on each team" etc. By swallowing the whistle there, they blew it.

And again, I'm not complaining too much, as this type of thing has happened to the Pats often enough. Remember the OT loss in Dallas last year and the missed facemask?

 

[patsinthesnow]

 

[rochrist]

Nice Win. My favorite play by Zappe was where he stepped up into the pocket to avoid the rush and threw a perfect pass. That was nice.

They got extremely lucky on that on-side kick call. I was surprised they overturned the call on the field as I couldn't see the Browns player actually touch that ball but then again, I think the refs & the New York review crew blew it on Zappe's "fumble". His arm was clearly moving forward when the ball came out. I don't know how the New York review crew missed that. The last replay angle showed it clearly.

As for the Browns, I thought Brissette was a better QB than that. I also thought Chubb was a better RB than that.

And speaking of Chubb, why didn't the Browns try running Chubb at the end of the 1st half? They had the ball 2nd & 1 on the 29 with 42 seconds left and two time outs. They called for a pass out of the shotgun on 2nd & 1 and 3rd & 1. Both fell incomplete. I would think that with Barmore out and Chubb back there, you use him to pick up that 1 yard and call a quick timeout. A new set of downs there gives you at least one more shot at the endzone. They ended the half with those 2 timeouts. Poor clock management, especially when you consider they called their 1st timeout to stop the clock at 42 seconds after letting about 12 extra seconds run off as they went to huddle up.

The first guy didn't actually recover the ball. It was the second guy who came around and came in from the backside (and from out of bounds). It was pretty clear.

 

[Chevy]

Zappe's highlight reel from yesterday is pure football porn to any Pats fan:

Bailey Zappe's Best Plays | NFL Week 6

www.patriots.com

We all know CLE sucks, but the players still had to execute for the plays to work...

EDIT: That TD pass he squeezed in to Thornton on his 2nd read is definitely NFL starting QB level work.

EDIT: Even the jump ball to Parker was something a lot of NFL QBs would not do or could not do.

Pretty much every skill position player (except KB and his injured toe) flash.

All this, and zero INTs too.

Loved how Jonnu, on that big gainer, accepted that he was going to be run down and immediately went into protect-the-ball mode. Didn't try to get cute, just got both arms around it and denied the strip.

 

[upstater1]

What you are saying is that the correct call was offsetting penalties. That is not something that is decided by the referees "live". They should have thrown the flag for the obvious facemask and if they then decide that there was holding when they huddle up, they can announce, "There were 2 penalties on the play. One on each team" etc. By swallowing the whistle there, they blew it.

And again, I'm not complaining too much, as this type of thing has happened to the Pats often enough. Remember the OT loss in Dallas last year and the missed facemask?

I wasn't actually saying that.

I was saying that offsetting penalties ends up rewarding the guy who committed the initial infraction.

A clear sack was coming. So the OL decided to commit a penalty. If the defender then commits something that could be flagged BECAUSE of the initial penalty on him, then you've just rewarded the player that deliberately committed the first penalty.

It's the same kind of logic that rewarded the Brown for batting the ball. Instead of giving them the ball where the fumble went out of bounds, the refs threw a flag on the Browns, and then gave them the ball several yards upfield of the bat, because of the rule. The player was rewarded for committing the penalty.

 

[Pats2000]

Zappe's highlight reel from yesterday is pure football porn to any Pats fan:

Bailey Zappe's Best Plays | NFL Week 6

www.patriots.com

We all know CLE sucks, but the players still had to execute for the plays to work...

EDIT: That TD pass he squeezed in to Thornton on his 2nd read is definitely NFL starting QB level work.

EDIT: Even the jump ball to Parker was something a lot of NFL QBs would not do or could not do.

Pretty much every skill position player (except KB and his injured toe) flash.

All this, and zero INTs too.

I thought Thorntons release package was sick, he had the DB breaking his ankles trying to figure out which way he was going.

 

[PatsFan2]

Loved how Jonnu, on that big gainer, accepted that he was going to be run down and immediately went into protect-the-ball mode. Didn't try to get cute, just got both arms around it and denied the strip.

Love the route too even though he juggled the catch Jonnu Smith looks like he can thrive on Broken plays.

 

[upstater1]

Both QBs have to look for that in the future. Stutter step and free.

Safety wouldn't have been anywhere near that if the QB knows Tyquan can do that.

I'm going to say something crazy but shades of Randy Moss.

 

[venecol]

Stark difference in these #s. I'm no longer listening to nonsense about level of competition. There are 2 road games & a home game for each in these #s. The biggest difference is in the level of preparation that Mac received as QB1 vs what Zappe received as QB3 in game planning, 1st team reps, # of reps, etc. This kid came off the bench & balled out. That's very impressive.