Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Browns

[captain stone]

Captain, I know you aren't the biggest Cannon fan, but from the "eye test" he looks pretty good so far, definitely playing better than Wynn and not committing any penalties, any thoughts so far?

Same as yours: he's passing the eye test so far, he's staying on his feet & pushing his opponent out of harm's way in pass protection, you can run behind him (& Onwenu) and gain yards - don't know why they didn't try doing so more often - and he's obviously playing a Much cleaner overall game than Lose/Lose...

My main concern, as is yours, is: how long can he last? For that reason I wouldn't trade L/L at the deadline... He's also the only other LT in the building, and Trent Brown isn't exactly the perpetual picture of health either...

 

[ashley]

Same as yours: he's passing the eye test so far, he's staying on his feet & pushing his opponent out of harm's way in pass protection, you can run behind him (& Onwenu) and gain yards - don't know why they didn't try doing so more often - and he's obviously playing a Much cleaner game than L/L...

My main concern, as is yours, is: how long can he last? For that reason I wouldn't trade L/L at the deadline... He's also the only other LT in the building...

You make a great point on trading Wynn. If we do trade him, we all of a sudden have no depth at a premium position. Cajuste showed some promise this summer, but you can't count on him at RT or anyone else on the roster for that matter, so trading Wynn at this point I don't think is an option.

 

[rochrist]

One last thought on this game before I forget... the NFL needs to modify the illegal touching rule. The call on Hunter Henry is this game showed a flaw in the current rule. He was clearly pushed out of bounds by a defender & not his own impetus. He should be allowed to reestablish himself inbounds and become eligible again. Why does the NFL believe a player should be penalized when they were forced out? It should only apply if the player steps out on their own.

I get that this penalty seems to have been created to prevent gunners from running out of bounds on a punt to avoid a block, but they now penalize that - in both directions (pushing out or running out are both penalties) - so it makes no sense to me at this time.

I though that WAS the rule, and I was pretty sure that the ref said something like 'went out of bounds -on his own-' (which he didn't, he was clearly pushed out).

 

[Bill Lee]

I have heard lots of praise for Zappe, but yet to hear anybody say this. Can you name just one person or poster who has said this?

I've been told to not expect accountability from other posters. Sh!tposting is now OK.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Captain, I know you aren't the biggest Cannon fan, but from the "eye test" he looks pretty good so far, definitely playing better than Wynn and not committing any penalties, any thoughts on his play?

The problem is he’s 33 and semi retired. How long will he hold up?

 

[bresna]

I though that WAS the rule, and I was pretty sure that the ref said something like 'went out of bounds -on his own-' (which he didn't, he was clearly pushed out).

Nope. From https://operations.nfl.com/media/5kvgzyss/2022-nfl-rulebook-final.pdf:
ARTICLE 8. ILLEGAL TOUCHING OF A FORWARD PASS. It is a foul for illegal touching if a forward pass (legal or illegal)
thrown from behind the line of scrimmage:
(a) is first touched intentionally or is caught by an originally ineligible offensive player; or
Penalty: Loss of five yards at the previous spot.
(b) first touches or is caught by an eligible offensive receiver who has gone out of bounds, either of his own volition or by being
legally forced out of bounds, and has re-established himself inbounds.
Penalty: Loss of down at the previous spot.

 

[ashley]

The problem is he’s 33 and semi retired. How long will he hold up?

Another reason why we have to keep Wynn on the roster and address the OT position next year.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

You make a great point on trading Wynn. If we do trade him, we all of a sudden have no depth at a premium position. Cajuste showed some promise this summer, but you can't count on him at RT or anyone else on the roster for that matter, so trading Wynn at this point I don't think is an option.

Wynn always had limitations of being a good tackle with his short stubby arms and injury history. Never ever should have gone # 24 overall in draft. Only bonafide tackles with size and length should be drafted that highly

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Another reason why we have to keep Wynn on the roster and address the OT position next year.

I’m ok with going LT in round 1..but I’m talking 6’7 + with Long Arms and fast feet. No more teapots

 

[PScottman]

One last thought on this game before I forget... the NFL needs to modify the illegal touching rule. The call on Hunter Henry is this game showed a flaw in the current rule. He was clearly pushed out of bounds by a defender & not his own impetus. He should be allowed to reestablish himself inbounds and become eligible again. Why does the NFL believe a player should be penalized when they were forced out? It should only apply if the player steps out on their own.

I get that this penalty seems to have been created to prevent gunners from running out of bounds on a punt to avoid a block, but they now penalize that - in both directions (pushing out or running out are both penalties) - so it makes no sense to me at this time.

With all the other rules benefitting the offense, this one makes sense to keep even if it did negatively impact our team.

Part of the way CB play is taught is to use the sidelines/endlines - also why couldn't a WR then use the bench players/staff/ref stick crew as distractions/semi-picks?

What could be addressed is the "push out" being considered as part of interference. You can squeeze a WR against any OOB line, but physically pushing them out probably could be examined as intentionally prohibiting the ability to complete a thrown pass".

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Nope. From https://operations.nfl.com/media/5kvgzyss/2022-nfl-rulebook-final.pdf:
ARTICLE 8. ILLEGAL TOUCHING OF A FORWARD PASS. It is a foul for illegal touching if a forward pass (legal or illegal)
thrown from behind the line of scrimmage:
(a) is first touched intentionally or is caught by an originally ineligible offensive player; or
Penalty: Loss of five yards at the previous spot.
(b) first touches or is caught by an eligible offensive receiver who has gone out of bounds, either of his own volition or by being
legally forced out of bounds, and has re-established himself inbounds.
Penalty: Loss of down at the previous spot.

The legally forced out of bounds thing is bizarre because isn’t that illegal contact? Which is what Cleveland should have been callled for there. I mean whats to stop db’s from just pushing wr’s out of bounds if they’re anywhere near the line.

 

[signbabybrady]

The legally forced out of bounds thing is bizarre because isn’t that illegal contact? Which is what Cleveland should have been callled for there. I mean whats to stop db’s from just pushing wr’s out of bounds if they’re anywhere near the line.

I think this is right I think illegal contact should have been called or at least off setting penalties. However if you knocked him out within 5 yards of the LoS then I think illegal touching should be called.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I think this is right I think illegal contact should have been called or at least off setting penalties. However if you knocked him out within 5 yards of the LoS then I think illegal touching should be called.

Ahh true , guess you could within 5 yards.

 

[ashley]

Good move by Barmore:

 

[jah]

Same as yours: he's passing the eye test so far, he's staying on his feet & pushing his opponent out of harm's way in pass protection, you can run behind him (& Onwenu) and gain yards - don't know why they didn't try doing so more often - and he's obviously playing a Much cleaner overall game than Lose/Lose...

My main concern, as is yours, is: how long can he last? For that reason I wouldn't trade L/L at the deadline... He's also the only other LT in the building, and Trent Brown isn't exactly the perpetual picture of health either...

You make a great point on trading Wynn. If we do trade him, we all of a sudden have no depth at a premium position. Cajuste showed some promise this summer, but you can't count on him at RT or anyone else on the roster for that matter, so trading Wynn at this point I don't think is an option.

As someone who was a Wynn apologist as recently as 2 months ago, I've found myself wondering whether he even counts as depth anymore. I know the problem is he's literally the only other tackle on the active roster (including practice squad), but the way he's been playing lately, I don't even want him as a backup.

 

[bresna]

I think this is right I think illegal contact should have been called or at least off setting penalties. However if you knocked him out within 5 yards of the LoS then I think illegal touching should be called.

But why? Why should a receiver who was forced out of bounds become ineligible? Why should he be penalized because a defender pushed him out? What is the reason for this penalty? Usually, penalties like this are to prevent someone from using the rules for their own gain. They usually close loopholes. Because of that, I see why it was created. They did it to stop gunners in the punting game from running out of bounds down the sideline to avoid being blocked. But now, that is a penalty, so illegal touching should go the way of the dodo.

One other thing on this... if they still have it to prevent receivers from running down the sidelines out of bounds to avoid contact, make that illegal. But I think it already is too.

 

[jah]

But why? Why should a receiver who was forced out of bounds become ineligible? Why should he be penalized because a defender pushed him out? What is the reason for this penalty? Usually, penalties like this are to prevent someone from using the rules for their own gain. They usually close loopholes. Because of that, I see why it was created. They did it to stop gunners in the punting game from running out of bounds down the sideline to avoid being blocked. But now, that is a penalty, so illegal touching should go the way of the dodo.

One other thing on this... if they still have it to prevent receivers from running down the sidelines out of bounds to avoid contact, make that illegal. But I think it already is too.

Officiating: The "Push Out of Bounds" Defense

If a defensive back can push a receiver out of bounds and remove him from a play, why don't teams capitalize on this? (Click to read more.)

www.footballoutsiders.com

So, while you can push a receiver out of bounds if the quarterback has already left the pocket, you could not grab the receiver and throw him out of bounds, since holding has no pocket exception. You could not do either after the ball has been thrown.

I don't remember whether the play from Sunday matched these circumstances.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Officiating: The "Push Out of Bounds" Defense

If a defensive back can push a receiver out of bounds and remove him from a play, why don't teams capitalize on this? (Click to read more.)

www.footballoutsiders.com

I don't remember whether the play from Sunday matched these circumstances.

Thanks. That's super-helpful.

 

[signbabybrady]

But why? Why should a receiver who was forced out of bounds become ineligible? Why should he be penalized because a defender pushed him out? What is the reason for this penalty? Usually, penalties like this are to prevent someone from using the rules for their own gain. They usually close loopholes. Because of that, I see why it was created. They did it to stop gunners in the punting game from running out of bounds down the sideline to avoid being blocked. But now, that is a penalty, so illegal touching should go the way of the dodo.

One other thing on this... if they still have it to prevent receivers from running down the sidelines out of bounds to avoid contact, make that illegal. But I think it already is too.

Not really sure. I guess just an arbitrary boundary. I see your point but stay in bounds it's simple.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

In 2015 yeah.

Why do you think Belichick started Cam then? Cam wasn't good but the other two aren't good either.