PostGame Thread Official Post-Game Thread: Patriots Lose to Commanders 20-17

[Lagaffe_07]

The problem is because of the current state of the team, we cannot know when Mac misses a receiver by 5-10 yards whether Mac made a horrible throw or the receiver just ran the wrong route. Why? Because either is very possible. For example, with missing Thornton. Mac has been off on down field throws in the past that were clearly on him and we have seen on other plays yesterday that Thornton cannot run a route if his life depended on it. So you could make a plausible case for Mac just making a horrible throw and a plausible case for Mac was throwing to a spot where Thornton was supposed to be and Thornton just ran a horrible route.

You know that Mac is able to use his eyes right? Mac threw the ball 10 feet over Thornton head. Even if Thornton ran the wrong route and was not at the correct depth, Mac still could, you know, see it, adjust to it and throw the ball on him.

I would get it if it’s a case of the QB thought the receiver would break right and he breaks left. That’s not what happen there.

It was a bad throw.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I know this is just media speculation, but if Belichick loses the locker room there is no going back. He is done. Once you lose players, it is near impossible to win them back. If Belichick does lose the locker room, there are really only two options: You cut all the players who have turned on Belichick even if that means you only have 5-10 players left under contract or you let go of Belichick. That is really it. And it is near impossible to cut 20-30 players who are part of your core without destroying the team for like five years or longer.

Problem is Kraft sees Belichick like his younger brother and the only way we get rid of this guy is him retiring himself - A man who is clearly arrogant will never see himself out on his own until hes truly ready to leave the game

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Problem is Kraft sees Belichick like his younger brother and the only way we get rid of this guy is him retiring himself - A man who is clearly arrogant will never see himself out on his own until hes truly ready to leave the game

My guess is he will not see him as his younger brother when Gillette stadium will be empty on game day

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Are you serious?

Yeah everytime Mac miss a guy by 8 mile is because the receiver suck and can’t run a route right. Maybe it is also because the turf was too green and was screwing with Mac vision.

The Patriots would have won yesterday if Sam Howell was the QB.

Hell...Taylor Heinikie or the Dobbs kid who is amazing is much better - Mac is not good enough to carry either of those guys bags inside the airport

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

My guess is he will not see him as his younger brother when Gillette stadium will be empty on game day

especially all the extra money Kraft just put in the stadium - no one wants to see a washed and finished coach way past his prime anymore - reminds me of Marv Levy as he neared the end of his tenure in Buffalo

 

[sb1]

I know this is just media speculation, but if Belichick loses the locker room there is no going back. He is done. Once you lose players, it is near impossible to win them back. If Belichick does lose the locker room, there are really only two options: You cut all the players who have turned on Belichick even if that means you only have 5-10 players left under contract or you let go of Belichick. That is really it. And it is near impossible to cut 20-30 players who are part of your core without destroying the team for like five years or longer.

2009 all over again except without the GOAT and without any other locker room leader other than Slater. They're just as hard to like as that team was.

 

[Rob0729]

You know that Mac is able to use his eyes right? Mac threw the ball 10 feet over Thornton head. Even if Thornton ran the wrong route and was not at the correct depth, Mac still could, you know, see it, adjust to it and throw the ball on him.

I would get it if it’s a case of the QB thought the receiver would break right and he breaks left. That’s not what happen there.

It was a bad throw.

You do realize that on a lot of deep throws the QB is throwing to a spot and it is the receiver's job to get there? Look at the video, Mac released the ball before Thornton makes his break. And Thornton runs towards the center of the field and then cuts outside. I can't remember seeing a route like that for the Pats. Was Thornton supposed to run straight down the field and then cut towards the sideline? Was he supposed to run a go route? Or was this by design? It could have been, but it seems to be a poorly designed play if it was because Thornton had to run an extra 5-10 yards to get downfield to the outside especially with the o-line the way it is and it was 4th down.

My guess is that Thornton tried to run an inside release and then was supposed to run outside, but may have significantly overran the inside release.



But it also could be the case of a bad route and a bad throw and both players are at fault. If Thornton did run a bad route, it doesn't mean that Mac couldn't have thrown a better ball. And if Mac threw a bad ball, it doesn't mean that Thornton couldn't have run a better route and might have had a chance on the ball.

If you think the only way a receiver can run a wrong route is to break the wrong direction, than I suggest you study up. The third down play where Thornton didn't catch the ball on the sidelines was 100% on Thornton and his bad route running. He broke the right direction, but he was so slow to make the break that he was unable to turn around to look for the ball. That was bad route running.

 

[Rob0729]

2009 all over again except without the GOAT and without any other locker room leader other than Slater. They're just as hard to like as that team was.

2009 it was a small handful of players who were the the problem and all of them were easily cut or their contracts were up. Belichick didn't lose the entire locker room that year.

 

[Ross12]

2009 it was a small handful of players who were the the problem and all of them were easily cut or their contracts were up. Belichick didn't lose the entire locker room that year.

I don't think he's losing as much of the locker room as you suggest but there's definitely a significant chunk. It's hard to blame some of them when the defense is playing hard despite their challenges, gets a stop, but then the offense goes out there looking dazed & confused, goes 3 and out or throws a pick 6, and they have to immediately trot back out onto the field again... And then on offense you have to deal with Mac being Mac under center which I'm sure inspires little confidence on the few members of the team that can contribute on that side of the ball.

I think it might be an interesting experiment to trim the roster down and see how many guys you can whittle away while still having a functional "core" that you could build back up with draft picks and free agency. Maybe they'd end up with fewer "big" purchases and instead a lot of lower priced guys to fill gaps...

 

[Rob0729]

I don't think he's losing as much of the locker room as you suggest but there's definitely a significant chunk. It's hard to blame some of them when the defense is playing hard despite their challenges, gets a stop, but then the offense goes out there looking dazed & confused, goes 3 and out or throws a pick 6, and they have to immediately trot back out onto the field again... And then on offense you have to deal with Mac being Mac under center which I'm sure inspires little confidence on the few members of the team that can contribute on that side of the ball.

I think it might be an interesting experiment to trim the roster down and see how many guys you can whittle away while still having a functional "core" that you could build back up with draft picks and free agency. Maybe they'd end up with fewer "big" purchases and instead a lot of lower priced guys to fill gaps...

By the end of the season, we do not know how many players Belichick might lose. This has the potential of having the entire team quit on him.

And the defense isn't blameless here. I can tackle better than half the guys on the defense right now. If an opposing RB gets to the second level, he has the potential of bringing it to the house on almost any play.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

It’s already past 8 on Monday have Myles Bryant and Thornton been cut yet?

Probably contract extension

 

[BennyBledsoe]

QB play is one of the MOST IMPORTANT things to contextualize. No other position relies on so much going right to look good.

Great QBs can look like absolute garbage if that's what they're surrounded with. Patriots fans should know this most of all! Look at 2019 Brady vs 2020 Brady.

Everything has to work to at least a moderate level. The OL has to buy the QB time and keep the DL's hands down. WRs have to run precise routes and be on the same page. RBs have to at least be respected to give trick plays a chance of working. Coaches have to design plays that confuse a defense. Once all that is working to at least a degree of competency, then the QB's skill or lack thereof becomes apparent.

Currently, we have an OL that doesn't give him time, that doesn't get RBs holes. We have WRs that can't get separation or catch the ball reliably when they do. The result? A QB that makes bad decisions because he doesn't have confidence anything will work.

 

[denverpatsfan]

My nephew and I had a great time at the game. The weather was perfect. The crowd was still into it despite early 90s suckage from the team.
We tried the fried chicken wings which I had never seen at any stadium. Very very good. We also stopped and got a slice at Citizen Crust on the way in. Solid pizza. Not amazing but not crappy either.
I did notice more trash littering the neighborhoods on the walk in. Also some poor fan etiquette. An entire group got up during the play to leave. A couple cut into my row during the moment of silence for the Lewiston Maine victims with a loud "excuse me". It took self discipline not to get into it with them.
Maybe Krafty should require fans to learn how to be respectful before they attend a game?

 

[Schmo]

Just because Mac isn’t the only problem, he’s still not performing to expected levels. INTs (and easy drops that should’ve been INTs), as well as an overall underwhelming performance just lead me to believe that he isn’t going to win you games.

I think NE benefits from moving on and getting someone who can start anew. He’s not the only person in the building I’d move on from.

Which of these 2 options would you rather have:

Caleb Williams with our current group of wide receivers or...

Mac with our current wide receivers PLUS Marvin Harrison Jr.

I know both may be pipe dreams, but they are really close in draft position.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Mac with Marvin Jr, but I'd rather dump the whole draft into a whole new OL.

 

[Ross12]

By the end of the season, we do not know how many players Belichick might lose. This has the potential of having the entire team quit on him.

And the defense isn't blameless here. I can tackle better than half the guys on the defense right now. If an opposing RB gets to the second level, he has the potential of bringing it to the house on almost any play.

IMO it seems like one way to try to stem the bleeding would be to make a change at QB - the team would be able to at least say "OK, let's see if this guy can at least not crap on himself once he gets up to speed". That would probably only buy a few weeks, though, before things started to backslide again unless things genuinely improved.

 

[lancerman]

He's the quarterback. He's disproportionately important to their offensive success. Of course he gets more of the blame. This is the most basic stuff imaginable. Who got most of the laurels after their win against Buffalo?

You're obsessed with narratives and perception of the player. Just watch him play. So when Tyquan Thornton, widely regarded as a bust, creams the coverage running an over and gets a horrific pass, do people consistently bring that play up to defend him? When Mac gets good protection all game long and the offense sputters, will anyone bring this game up to defend the OL from criticism? When Mac throws a bad ball on fourth down and Juju makes an awesome catch, is that brought up as a response to people blaming him for the drop? Welcome to football. Sometimes you do your job and **** goes wrong. In analyzing the entirety of his performance and his process, Mac is not good enough. And it just so happens that not being good enough at his position is more crippling than not being good enough at any other position. Groundbreaking insight!

No I’m obsessed with taking an honest evaluation of who is good and what is and isn’t working because that’s how you correct a problem. Not pushing whatever venting narrative that makes me feel better

 

[Scotty]

My nephew and I had a great time at the game. The weather was perfect. The crowd was still into it despite early 90s suckage from the team.
We tried the fried chicken wings which I had never seen at any stadium. Very very good. We also stopped and got a slice at Citizen Crust on the way in. Solid pizza. Not amazing but not crappy either.
I did notice more trash littering the neighborhoods on the walk in. Also some poor fan etiquette. An entire group got up during the play to leave. A couple cut into my row during the moment of silence for the Lewiston Maine victims with a loud "excuse me". It took self discipline not to get into it with them.
Maybe Krafty should require fans to learn how to be respectful before they attend a game?

I am afraid to say its a sign of the times , similar disrespect is also shown at various UK events as well.

 

[farn]

Which of these 2 options would you rather have:

Caleb Williams with our current group of wide receivers or...

Mac with our current wide receivers PLUS Marvin Harrison Jr.

I know both may be pipe dreams, but they are really close in draft position.

I’d go OT. But given the choice, I’d go WR.

 

[Rob0729]

IMO it seems like one way to try to stem the bleeding would be to make a change at QB - the team would be able to at least say "OK, let's see if this guy can at least not crap on himself once he gets up to speed". That would probably only buy a few weeks, though, before things started to backslide again unless things genuinely improved.

You think this all stems with Mac. I don't think so. I think there are a lot of guys here who don't buy into Belichick. Benching Jack Jones and JC Jackson probably didn't sit well with a lot of players especially since Belichick is making a point at the expense of the team. And Belichick is a hard ass coach and that only works if you are winning. And I bet there a lot of guys who are on Team Mac and believe Belichick did him dirty.

And what if the change at QB is exponentially worse?