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Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bills beat the Pats

2022 Patriots Season:
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Mon
Dec 12th
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THIS IS OUR LIVE GAME DAY THREAD:

This is where we gather to follow things on Game Day. Obviously, emotions tend to be high so if anyone gets a little crazy, the use of the “Mute” button is encouraged on anyone who may be annoying to you to control your experience and to allow the moderators to also enjoy the game.

At the same time, please take a deep breath before over-reacting for the sake of making this a pleasant experience for everyone.

Rob0729

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I agree for the most part but they arguably have a top 5 QB, Goff isn't even top 10. An elite QB can win games on his own as we know first hand. You can have holes with a QB like that and it doesn't matter.

Look at Green Bay. They have Rodgers who is a top 5 QB and they win year after year after year. They don't win the SB every year but are always one of the better teams even with bad defenses they notoriously have had.

The big difference between winning regularly year after year is having an elite QB and the Bills have that.

Rodgers is a HOF QB. Once in a generation QB. He is in the Brady category. But even Rodgers, they did have a period in 2017 and 2018 where they fell out of playoff contention and had to retool their roster.

The Saints couldn't do stay consistent playoff/Super Bowl contenders with Drew Brees and Sean Payton. The Seahawks couldn't do it with Russell Wilson and once and a generation defense. The Colts couldn't do it with Andrew Luck. The Steelers couldn't do it with Roethlisberger. Rivers, Tomlinson, and a young defense was supposed to be contenders for years. They lasted like two. A lot of those teams had periods of being consistent contenders, but they usually only lasted 3-4 years and then they fell out of the playoffs and some came back with retooled rosters.

Brady and the Pats and, to a lesser extent, Rodgers and the Packers being contenders year and year out for a decade or more are the exceptions to the rule. The rule is most teams don't have more than a 3-5 year window of success.
 

Patnation21

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Rodgers is a HOF QB. Once in a generation QB. He is in the Brady category. But even Rodgers, they did have a period in 2017 and 2018 where they fell out of playoff contention and had to retool their roster.

The Saints couldn't do stay consistent playoff/Super Bowl contenders with Drew Brees and Sean Payton. The Seahawks couldn't do it with Russell Wilson and once and a generation defense. The Colts couldn't do it with Andrew Luck. The Steelers couldn't do it with Roethlisberger. Rivers, Tomlinson, and a young defense was supposed to be contenders for years. They lasted like two. A lot of those teams had periods of being consistent contenders, but they usually only lasted 3-4 years and then they fell out of the playoffs and some came back with retooled rosters.

Brady and the Pats and, to a lesser extent, Rodgers and the Packers being contenders year and year out for a decade or more are the exceptions to the rule. The rule is most teams don't have more than a 3-5 year window of success.
Mahomes and KC will be another one of those exception to the rules and will always be in the mix, that's what those great QB's can do for a team.
 

Rob0729

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Mahomes and KC will be another one of those exception to the rules and will always be in the mix, that's what those great QB's can do for a team.

Mahomes has only been a starter for four years. The Chiefs may last longer than 3-5 years as a contender, but they are getting close to the point where they are going to have to break up the team. But also Mahomes is an elite QB on par with the Rodgers and Bradys of the world which may make him and the Chiefs the exception to the rule.
 

PatsFanInVa

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that might be true for Mac that he is not reading the field as fast and as good as some veterans out there yet, but might it be, just for some case, that Jonnu was not really involved by design? if Jonnu is out there supposed to block instead of running a route is Mac supposed to wait for Jonnu to get open? I think that Smith was not utilized as good as other OCs did with him in the past, so the drop off might be more on the OC than on the QB, because Mac obviously was able to connect to the other TE who was involved in RZ, just a thought

Might also speak more to Smith capability to (not) run proper routes and get open consistantly or be a non factor in the RZ?

I don't know, at least I can't recall any play during the season where Jonnu Smith was open and Mac just didn't hit/see him except for the INT vs Falcons or who was it? unlike Agholor, even Harry was open big time on some occasions because no one is taking care of him, he would anyway drop the ball no need to cover him
Yeah, I sort of folded in a feeling of "yanno what, he can block, that much we know." If you can't use 2 TEs as pass catchers, the smart thing to do is use his blocking ability, if you trust TE1 better. By the end of that 4 year J Smith contract, we might be laughing at this exchange. Who knows.
Jonnu had a fumble in the first game and 3 drops in the next two games. I think those early troubles set the tone for his lack of use for the rest of the season.
Who would hold a fumble from the first game against you? Oh that's right.
That's not how it works.
:D "That's not how any of this works."
 

Patnation21

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Mahomes has only been a starter for four years. The Chiefs may last longer than 3-5 years as a contender, but they are getting close to the point where they are going to have to break up the team. But also Mahomes is an elite QB on par with the Rodgers and Bradys of the world which may make him and the Chiefs the exception to the rule.
Yep and so is Allen, that was my point about Buffalo. They will be a problem for another 10 years.
 

Rob0729

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Yep and so is Allen, that was my point about Buffalo. They will be a problem for another 10 years.

No Allen isn't. Not yet. You are seriously whacked if you think Allen is in the same category of Brady and Rodgers or even Mahomes at this point. He's not even in the same category of Drew Brees and the Saints didn't consistently win the NFC South for ten years consistently under him.

Talk about recency bias. Allen is a great QB, but he is still the same guy who threw three picks against the Falcons a few weeks ago and only completed 63.3% of his passes and had 15 picks this year and a QB rating of 92.2. He is not elite QB. At least not yet.
 

ArchAngel007

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No Allen isn't. Not yet. You are seriously whacked if you think Allen is in the same category of Brady and Rodgers or even Mahomes at this point. He's not even in the same category of Drew Brees and the Saints didn't consistently win the NFC South for ten years consistently under him.

Talk about recency bias. Allen is a great QB, but he is still the same guy who threw three picks against the Falcons a few weeks ago and only completed 63.3% of his passes and had 15 picks this year and a QB rating of 92.2. He is not elite QB. At least not yet.
A SB this season will elevate him to Mahomes level
 

Patnation21

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No Allen isn't. Not yet. You are seriously whacked if you think Allen is in the same category of Brady and Rodgers or even Mahomes at this point. He's not even in the same category of Drew Brees and the Saints didn't consistently win the NFC South for ten years consistently under him.

Talk about recency bias. Allen is a great QB, but he is still the same guy who threw three picks against the Falcons a few weeks ago and only completed 63.3% of his passes and had 15 picks this year and a QB rating of 92.2. He is not elite QB. At least not yet.
I never said he was in the same category as those 2 but he's a great QB and will be a problem for the next 10 years. You don't seem to see that which is fine.
 

Rob0729

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A SB this season will elevate him to Mahomes level

Maybe in public opinion, but not play on the field. I am not trashing the guy. But he had an inconsistent season. And just because he is perceived as elite, that doesn't mean he is an elite QB like Brady or Rodgers who can overcome major deficiencies in the Bills' rosters and make them a contender. I am not sure that he won't regress quite a bit if Daboll takes a head coaching job this year.

Rodgers and Brady had their teams contenders year in and year out because they are/were QBs who could elevate the play of lesser talent. Few QBs in history could do that. That is why the Pats and Packers were consistently contenders for long runs and the Saints and Steelers weren't.
 

Rob0729

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I never said he was in the same category as those 2 but he's a great QB and will be a problem for the next 10 years. You don't seem to see that which is fine.

He will be a problem, but that doesn't mean that the Bills will be a threat for the division for the next ten years. He has yet to show he can elevate lesser talent. He has yet to show he can carry the Bills if Diggs isn't on the team, Daboll is calling the offense, and/or the Bills don't have the top defense in the NFL.

Again, the Bills struggled a lot this year. A month ago, it looked like the Pats past them by for the division. Just because they are clicking on all cylinders now doesn't change their entire season. Like the Patriots they had a very soft schedule. They had 11 wins with that soft schedule. If they were truly one of those teams that will dominate the AFC for the next ten years, you would expect them to have 13-14 wins this year. They went a long stretch this season of losing every other game.

I think you have recency bias for this team.

They are clearly better than the Patriots right now. They are playing their best football right now. If they play like they did on Saturday, they can beat anyone in the NFL and win the Super Bowl. But who they were on Saturday isn't remotely who they have been all season.
 

Patnation21

Practice Squad Player
He will be a problem, but that doesn't mean that the Bills will be a threat for the division for the next ten years. He has yet to show he can elevate lesser talent. He has yet to show he can carry the Bills if Diggs isn't on the team, Daboll is calling the offense, and/or the Bills don't have the top defense in the NFL.

Again, the Bills struggled a lot this year. A month ago, it looked like the Pats past them by for the division. Just because they are clicking on all cylinders now doesn't change their entire season. Like the Patriots they had a very soft schedule. They had 11 wins with that soft schedule. If they were truly one of those teams that will dominate the AFC for the next ten years, you would expect them to have 13-14 wins this year. They went a long stretch this season of losing every other game.

I think you have recency bias for this team.

They are clearly better than the Patriots right now. They are playing their best football right now. If they play like they did on Saturday, they can beat anyone in the NFL and win the Super Bowl. But who they were on Saturday isn't remotely who they have been all season.
What team in the AFC had 13 wins this year? Actually how many teams in the NFL had 13 wins? Not many. They had 13 last year. Teams can struggle during a long season for a variety of reasons, its how you finish the season that matters.

We can agree to disagree but I've seen enough of Allen to know he's an elite QB who's going to be a big problem in the AFC East for a long time. Any QB who can take over games at any moment is a big problem.
 

Rob0729

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What team in the AFC had 13 wins this year? Actually how many teams in the NFL had 13 wins? Not many. They had 13 last year. Teams can struggle during a long season for a variety of reasons, its how you finish the season that matters.

We can agree to disagree but I've seen enough of Allen to know he's an elite QB who's going to be a big problem in the AFC East for a long time. Any QB who can take over games at any moment is a big problem.

Just because no one won 13 doesn't mean the Bills, if are a team set up to dominate the AFC East and AFC for the next decade, should have. The Chiefs and Titans had excuses why they didn't have 13 wins. Mahomes wasn't Mahomes to start the season and they revamped the entire o-line with three rookie starters. The Titans lost Henry for half the season and didn't have their top 2 receivers for like a month. What was the Bills' excuse? They had everyone back and was relatively healthy this season.

Allen was not elite this year. He was way too inconsistent this year to be elite. Even stats-wise he wasn't elite in any category. Yes, he could be a problem for the AFC East for a decade, but if he doesn't have the talent around him I am not convinced the Bills will be. I certainly see him be like Justin Herbert the last two years. He personally have great stats on a non-playoff team. I think Herbert was better than him this season and the Chargers are not in the playoffs. Nor did they get double digit wins.

People are saying today that the Pats were frauds because their schedule was so easy, but they won one less game than the Bills and had a harder schedule than the Bills.
 


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