Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bills beat the Pats

[ashley]

some roster moves:

 

[ashley]

good signs of a leader:

 

[Patnation21]

Just because no one won 13 doesn't mean the Bills, if are a team set up to dominate the AFC East and AFC for the next decade, should have. The Chiefs and Titans had excuses why they didn't have 13 wins. Mahomes wasn't Mahomes to start the season and they revamped the entire o-line with three rookie starters. The Titans lost Henry for half the season and didn't have their top 2 receivers for like a month. What was the Bills' excuse? They had everyone back and was relatively healthy this season.

Allen was not elite this year. He was way too inconsistent this year to be elite. Even stats-wise he wasn't elite in any category. Yes, he could be a problem for the AFC East for a decade, but if he doesn't have the talent around him I am not convinced the Bills will be. I certainly see him be like Justin Herbert the last two years. He personally have great stats on a non-playoff team. I think Herbert was better than him this season and the Chargers are not in the playoffs. Nor did they get

Just because no one won 13 doesn't mean the Bills, if are a team set up to dominate the AFC East and AFC for the next decade, should have. The Chiefs and Titans had excuses why they didn't have 13 wins. Mahomes wasn't Mahomes to start the season and they revamped the entire o-line with three rookie starters. The Titans lost Henry for half the season and didn't have their top 2 receivers for like a month. What was the Bills' excuse? They had everyone back and was relatively healthy this season.

Allen was not elite this year. He was way too inconsistent this year to be elite. Even stats-wise he wasn't elite in any category. Yes, he could be a problem for the AFC East for a decade, but if he doesn't have the talent around him I am not convinced the Bills will be. I certainly see him be like Justin Herbert the last two years. He personally have great stats on a non-playoff team. I think Herbert was better than him this season and the Chargers are not in the playoffs. Nor did they get double digit wins.

Allen was number 2 in total TD's with 42. Brady was number 1. The guy ran for almost 800 yards with 6 TD's and 36 passing TD's and 4200 yards passing and he had a bit of a down year. Those are pretty damn elite stats especually for a down year. You don't think he's elite? I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[Rob0729]

Allen was number 2 in total TD's with 42. Brady was number 1. The guy ran for almost 800 yards with 6 TD's and 36 passing TD's and 4200 yards passing and he had a bit of a down year. Those are pretty damn elite stats especually for a down year. You don't think he's elite? I don't know what else to tell you.

He also third in the league in INTs (actually second because Stafford and Lawrence are tied for #1) and only two INTs less than the top QB in that category. Don't ignore that. That factors into how elite he is.

Justin Herbert had 38 passing TDs and 3 rushing TDs. Herbert had on less total TDs than Allen. Plus he had over 5000 passing yards and 300 rushing yards and completion percentage of 65.9% which is higher than Allen's 63.2%. And Herbert had a 1/3 of the INTs that Allen had.

And last I checked, the Chargers went 9-8 and missed the playoffs. Herbert is more elite than Allen and he couldn't even make the playoffs in a year a completely toast Ben Roethlisberger made the playoffs.

So whether or not you call Allen elite or not, elite QBs other than an extremely small handful can carry a with less talent. I talking a small handful in history. Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, and that is about it in the modern era. That is my point. And there is no way the current talent on the Bills will be the same for more than 3-5 years from now. Whether Allen is elite doesn't matter until he can prove he can carry a team with lesser talent.

Maybe will be able to. Maybe the Bills will continue to draft and acquire top talent. But history has shown that the Bills' window is likely 3-5 years.

 

[Patnation21]

Just because no one won 13 doesn't mean the Bills, if are a team set up to dominate the AFC East and AFC for the next decade, should have. The Chiefs and Titans had excuses why they didn't have 13 wins. Mahomes wasn't Mahomes to start the season and they revamped the entire o-line with three rookie starters. The Titans lost Henry for half the season and didn't have their top 2 receivers for like a month. What was the Bills' excuse? They had everyone back and was relatively healthy this season.

Allen was not elite this year. He was way too inconsistent this year to be elite. Even stats-wise he wasn't elite in any category. Yes, he could be a problem for the AFC East for a decade, but if he doesn't have the talent around him I am not convinced the Bills will be. I certainly see him be like Justin Herbert the last two years. He personally have great stats on a non-playoff team. I think Herbert was better than him this season and the Chargers are not in the playoffs. Nor did they get double digit wins.

People are saying today that the Pats were frauds because their schedule was so easy, but they won one less game than the Bills and had a harder schedule than the Bills.

He also third in the league in INTs. Don't ignore that. That factors into how elite he is.

Justin Herbert had 38 passing TDs and 3 rushing TDs. Herbert had on less total TDs than Allen. Plus he had over 5000 passing yards and 300 rushing yards and completion percentage of 65.9% which is higher than Allen's 63.2%. And Herbert had a 1/3 of the INTs that Allen had.

And last I checked, the Chargers went 9-8 and missed the playoffs. Herbert is more elite than Allen and he couldn't even make the playoffs in a year a completely toast Ben Roethlisberger made the playoffs.

So whether or not you call Allen elite or not, elite QBs other than an extremely small handful can carry a with less talent. I talking a small handful in history. Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, and that is about it in the modern era. That is my point. And there is no way the current talent on the Bills will be the same for more than 3-5 years from now. Whether Allen is elite doesn't matter until he can prove he can carry a team with lesser talent.

Maybe will be able to. Maybe the Bills will continue to draft and acquire top talent. But history has shown that the Bills' window is likely 3-5 years.

Every QB in the top 8 had between 12 and 17 INT, Allen fell in the middle

He also third in the league in INTs (actually second because Stafford and Lawrence are tied for #1) and only two INTs less than the top QB in that category. Don't ignore that. That factors into how elite he is.

Justin Herbert had 38 passing TDs and 3 rushing TDs. Herbert had on less total TDs than Allen. Plus he had over 5000 passing yards and 300 rushing yards and completion percentage of 65.9% which is higher than Allen's 63.2%. And Herbert had a 1/3 of the INTs that Allen had.

And last I checked, the Chargers went 9-8 and missed the playoffs. Herbert is more elite than Allen and he couldn't even make the playoffs in a year a completely toast Ben Roethlisberger made the playoffs.

So whether or not you call Allen elite or not, elite QBs other than an extremely small handful can carry a with less talent. I talking a small handful in history. Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, and that is about it in the modern era. That is my point. And there is no way the current talent on the Bills will be the same for more than 3-5 years from now. Whether Allen is elite doesn't matter until he can prove he can carry a team with lesser talent.

Maybe will be able to. Maybe the Bills will continue to draft and acquire top talent. But history has shown that the Bills' window is likely 3-5 years.

Every QB in the top 8 had between 12 and 17 INT so Allen fell in the middle. What does Herbert have to do with this? Herbert had his best year and Allen had an off year. So many great young QB's in the league right now, its fun to see.

Of course the players will change on the Bills over 5 years just like any team but teams that draft well always add players to replace aging players. Allen has a cannon for an arm, can make any throw, is 6'5 240lbs who ran a 4.7, he can do everything. Do I wish we had him over Mac? I hate to admit but **** yes. You would be a fool to say otherwise. Probably only 2 other QB's in the league right now I would want over Allen, I think he's that good.

Anyway, I think we've clogged up the thread way to much with Allen/Bills lol. I love football and appreciate your opinions. I don't take anything personal on here, good way to learn. Have a good one.

 

[Vindicate]

They lost Gilmore and Jones. On top of that, Mills was out for tonight. That basically destroyed the CB group.
The linebacker corps needs a complete brooming.
They need to replace Godchaux, and they probably need another DT on top of that.
They need to find someone who can make at least a replacement level effort as the pass rusher opposite Judon.
McCourty's in decline and needs to be either transitioned or replaced.


That screams personnel to me, not coaching.

Was pissed when I posted that, you're mostly right. I guess I was just surprised by the sheer lack of visible energy in the players. This team seems to have "leaders" when winning, but looks defeated when things aren't going right. Of course, this is an entirely circumstantial projection based on body language at best, which I understand isn't the most accurate measuring stick. Whatever. I'm still annoyed by the loss, I'll be misguiding anger for the next few weeks.

What I do know is - I now want to put the Bills in a blender. Feels nice to hate them so hard, I haven't had a true villain in the NFL in quite some time.

 

[Hyped]

Now that I have had a few days to stew on this loss…I am reminded by a scene in “Rocky III” after Clubber Lang knocked out Balboa and Mickey died….Rocky is in his old gym…and Apollo shows up telling Rocky that he “lost for the wrong reasons” and needed to find his “eye of the tiger”…and offers to train Rocky for a rematch in exchange for a favor to be named later…

”lost for the wrong reasons” is where I am at right now…. I am going to rewatch the game and jot down some notes. I firmly believe that it was an aberration…. I mean, no BB defense has ever given up 47….ever lost by 30 in a playoff game…the worst was the 31-0 loss in week 1 of the 2003 season and a 34-9 loss in Detroit back in 2000 when Brady saw his first action… Then again, the same thing happened in week 16. Mare no mistake, the problem was our defense…not the offense. It is obvious that we have an offense with a limited margin of error that relies on complementary football…and we also had a leaky special teams unit outside of Folk and Cardona. The defense is where I am at…I don’t care about us missing Jon Jones, Jalen Mills, Wino being inactive, Uche falling off the face of earth, Judon obviously not himself, Hightower being slower, Bentley being what he is, Godchaux’s jersey being turned to show his number, DMac a bit slower, Dugger playing with a cast on his hand, JJW not really taking a step forward, etc…etc… I believe we had enough talent on the field to force at least 2 punts and 1 figgie. I believe we lost that game for all the wrong reasons. It wasn’t personnel…it wasn’t the difference in talent level…it wasn’t coaching…it wasn’t the scheme…it wasn’t the players either… I can’t pinpoint it exactly and think BB and Co. have a lot of work to do this off season in reviewing all 18 games and seeing if we cannot do things differently. We simply haven’t played well at all since the BYE week. During our 2-4 start, I felt that we had a good team that simply wasn’t making those crucial gotta have em’ plays…the last 5 weeks…we were a completely different football team. In fact, I might review the Jacksonville tape…to see how the F did we blow them out playing the way we did in Indy, vs. Buff, in Miami, and in Buff….. I mean the Jags beat the Colts? WTF? We lost for the wrong reasons…..

 

[DropKickFlutie]

No surprise Godchaux and Bentley led in their group dept snaps last game, and the Pats got blown out. Godchaux and Bentley SUCK.

.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Turns out, not even Gilmore could've helped out that night. That entire defense got put on ice skates.

 

[Sciz]

No surprise Godchaux and Bentley led in their group dept snaps last game, and the Pats got blown out. Godchaux and Bentley SUCK.

.

What are you talking about? Bentley got hurt and was behind Hightower, Van Noy, and Collins in snaps.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

What are you talking about? Bentley got hurt and was behind Hightower, Van Noy, and Collins in snaps.

Yeah he hurt his arm.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

Now that I have had a few days to stew on this loss…I am reminded by a scene in “Rocky III” after Clubber Lang knocked out Balboa and Mickey died….Rocky is in his old gym…and Apollo shows up telling Rocky that he “lost for the wrong reasons” and needed to find his “eye of the tiger”…and offers to train Rocky for a rematch in exchange for a favor to be named later…

”lost for the wrong reasons” is where I am at right now…. I am going to rewatch the game and jot down some notes. I firmly believe that it was an aberration…. I mean, no BB defense has ever given up 47….ever lost by 30 in a playoff game…the worst was the 31-0 loss in week 1 of the 2003 season and a 34-9 loss in Detroit back in 2000 when Brady saw his first action… Then again, the same thing happened in week 16. Mare no mistake, the problem was our defense…not the offense. It is obvious that we have an offense with a limited margin of error that relies on complementary football…and we also had a leaky special teams unit outside of Folk and Cardona. The defense is where I am at…I don’t care about us missing Jon Jones, Jalen Mills, Wino being inactive, Uche falling off the face of earth, Judon obviously not himself, Hightower being slower, Bentley being what he is, Godchaux’s jersey being turned to show his number, DMac a bit slower, Dugger playing with a cast on his hand, JJW not really taking a step forward, etc…etc… I believe we had enough talent on the field to force at least 2 punts and 1 figgie. I believe we lost that game for all the wrong reasons. It wasn’t personnel…it wasn’t the difference in talent level…it wasn’t coaching…it wasn’t the scheme…it wasn’t the players either… I can’t pinpoint it exactly and think BB and Co. have a lot of work to do this off season in reviewing all 18 games and seeing if we cannot do things differently. We simply haven’t played well at all since the BYE week. During our 2-4 start, I felt that we had a good team that simply wasn’t making those crucial gotta have em’ plays…the last 5 weeks…we were a completely different football team. In fact, I might review the Jacksonville tape…to see how the F did we blow them out playing the way we did in Indy, vs. Buff, in Miami, and in Buff….. I mean the Jags beat the Colts? WTF? We lost for the wrong reasons…..

The offense needs tp be able to score more points and come from behind, regardless of defense. This "small margin of error" is not sustainable for a team that wants to compete for the super bowl. A great offensive team with an average defense can definitely win a SB. Hopefully next year, the coaching staff will stop babying Mac and let him take some chances occasionally.

Also in the Rocky analogy, is BB like Mickey?

 

[Hyped]

The offense needs tp be able to score more points and come from behind, regardless of defense. This "small margin of error" is not sustainable for a team that wants to compete for the super bowl. A great offensive team with an average defense can definitely win a SB. Hopefully next year, the coaching staff will stop babying Mac and let him take some chances occasionally.

Also in the Rocky analogy, is BB like Mickey?

Yes, the offense needs to be better also…but that was not the problem on Saturday night. We knew what to expect and the offense did their part. Had we made 2-3 more stops, the offense probably would have added 3-7 more points on their end and ended up scoring between 21-24ppg….which is what I consider par for going up the against the best scoring D with a rookie QB in a playoff game.

And god I hope BB isn’t Mickey!!! But I kinda like the idea of Flores being Apollo…..maybe in a consulting kind of role if he doesn’t land the Bears gig (I don’t think he wants to coach in Houston).

 

[sb1]

Interesting. I don't remember him ever doing this before after a season ending game. I wonder who he was talking to?

 

[Patnation21]

No Allen isn't. Not yet. You are seriously whacked if you think Allen is in the same category of Brady and Rodgers or even Mahomes at this point. He's not even in the same category of Drew Brees and the Saints didn't consistently win the NFC South for ten years consistently under him.

Talk about recency bias. Allen is a great QB, but he is still the same guy who threw three picks against the Falcons a few weeks ago and only completed 63.3% of his passes and had 15 picks this year and a QB rating of 92.2. He is not elite QB. At least not yet.

Will you finally admit Allen is elite? If you won't now, you never will.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

I'll admit Allen is elite.

AFC:

Mahomes
Allen
Burrow
Herbert
Lamar
Carr

 

[Guts]

I'll admit Allen is elite.

AFC:

Mahomes
Allen
Herbert
Lamar
Carr

Burrow

 

[TheRainMaker]

I'll admit Allen is elite.

AFC:

Mahomes
Allen
Herbert
Lamar
Carr

Mahomes and Allen are the only elite QB’s in the AFC. Burrow is coming close.

 

[oldrover]

Will you finally admit Allen is elite

 

[MahomestoKelce]

Burrow

Lawrence will likely get there too.

AFC will be stacked.

Years ago it was:

Brady
Manning
Roethlisberger
Rivers