Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bills beat the Pats

[Pats1971]

Ok this probably wont be popular, but watching the highlight of that Mac out of bounds play. If that was called, that would have been a pretty weak call, he put two hands on macs back and then tried to keep him from falling. I was working didnt get to see the game till later, but the way people were screaming I thought the guy picked mac up and pile drove him into a bench and then stomped his face for 20 minutes.

 

[Pats1971]

There are some real concerns for Mac, but Herbert is fighting to stay at .500 with all the talent he has and just lost a shootout to the damn Texans! Herbert has a ton of talent, but he reminds me of Matt Stafford - puts up big number yet somehow loses games.

I agree that Mac has A LOT to work on this offseason.

By the way, Rotoworld ripped Trevor Lawerence a new one calling him out on his awful season.

Chargers have one of the worst defenses in the league...so that is why that is the case. If Mac was on the chargers with that defense, I am not even sure they have 4 wins. The pats record this year is based on defense and run game. The chargers is based on having to outscore teams every week.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Ouch. Not a good look for Judon.

I told you last game that Allen didn't play like an upper tier QB, and that he had frankly played at a medicore level for much of the season after a hot start. And I was right about those things. But in the game yesterday, he may have played better than any QB in any game this season. He not only single handedly wrecked a top defense in a huge game, but he also overcame two touchdown drops and numerous gaffes by his teammates on offense.

He's a hell of an athlete...I'm surprised I rarely hear this comparison, but he reminds me a lot of John Elway. He's a threat on the ground and has a huge arm...his accuracy and generally low risk passes are more of a function of a modern offense in 2020 versus Elway in the 1980s when a 60% completion pct was good; same with the running...he would probably run a ton like Elway if coaches thought the same way as they did before. Not saying he is Elway, who made five Super Bowls, but physically his strengths are very similar.

 

[Pats1971]

Take a look at some of Allen from his rookie year...

What does Allen 3 years ago have to do with Mac? I never understood how in order to defend players, they show you a different player on a different team in a different year. Mac right now is at the point where unless our defense is turning over the other team, we dont win that game. He is a rookie and that is fine, but I think we can hold off on the hall of fame induction or stupid brady comparisons for at least another year.

 

[Pats1971]

I told you last game that Allen didn't play like an upper tier QB, and that he had frankly played at a medicore level for much of the season after a hot start. And I was right about those things. But in the game yesterday, he may have played better than any QB in any game this season. He not only single handedly wrecked a top defense in a huge game, but he also overcame two touchdown drops and numerous gaffes by his teammates on offense.

He's a hell of an athlete...I'm surprised I rarely hear this comparison, but he reminds me a lot of John Elway. He's a threat on the ground and has a huge arm...his accuracy and generally low risk passes are more of a function of a modern offense in 2020 versus Elway in the 1980s when a 60% completion pct was good; same with the running...he would probably run a ton like Elway if coaches thought the same way as they did before. Not saying he is Elway, who made five Super Bowls, but physically his strengths are very similar.

Allens only issue is consistency, if he gets more of that, he will be a top QB in the league for a long time.

 

[Bill Lee]

Mac Jones does not pass the "eye test"

OK so he is a nice guy who does his homework, butters up BB, says all the right things and gives Bitcoin to his lineman.

Besides having a week arm, his decision making seems horrible, his reads are terrible , he stares down receivers, does not move around the pocket well, has NO zip on his throws, does not pass beyond 7-10 yards, has no swag or confidence, hit a brick wall at 10 games and has poor accuracy at this point. Blaming it all on the receivers is not the full story.

Lets compare that with a true franchise QB Justin Herbert, who in his rookie year looked dynamite
has a rocket for an arm, moves around the pocket deftly, can make defenses pay with his improvised runs, accuracy is off the charts, is decisive as hell. Now that is a franchise QB that will change the fortunes of the chargers long term.

"Hoping" that Jones will be better in his second year is just that "hope". Can not rely on him being a franchise QB. More likely to be middle of the pack. I think he lacks the skill and "makeup" of a true top tier QB.

Well, yeah, there's a big drop off from picking #1 overall to #15. To be honest, usually there are 5-8 game changing players in a given draft. Picking them is loaded with peril. Remember Bledsoe vs Mirer? Players like Tua, Fields, Lance, Wilson, Lawrence are still finding their way. Getting Mac amidst all the different possible outcomes is not bad, IMO, especially considering we only gave up #15 to get him. Teams like NYJ, MIA and CHI have sucked for a long time to get to make their picks. SFO has traded away their next few drafts.

I'm no where as negative as you are on Mac. He hasn't been his sharpest in the last two games, even he says so. Hitting the wall is a real thing for a rookie. Yet I feel he is good at reading defenses and is good moving in and around the pocket. He's never going to be an elite runner or gunner. The comps we had coming out of college were Chad Pennington, Derek Carr, etc. He's on track to be that level player with IMO a chance of being better than that. It's too early to call.

There really are much more QB-needy teams than us right now, so moving away from Mac would take a ton of resources, and would be really out of character for the kind of team building this staff usually does.

I get it, the idea is to get a MVP candidate level starting QB, but if it were easy there'd be 32 guys competing for MVP rather than just one or two.

Really what we need to do is what we're doing, keep improving the team year by year and put Mac into the best position we can for him to "take the leap" next season or the one after that. We are really in no position to get another QB with high potential via draft or FA any time soon, the cost is simply too much. We're in a much better position if we keep coaching Mac up, help him continue to get stronger both mentally and physically, and keep building the team's overall talent level.

Then in year 4 of Mac's career, unless the growth curve really kicks in, we're in a big spot just like CLE with Mayfield. Do you sign him up long term? Who knows, the world will be a different place by then. Chances are BB will hang them up at some point along that curve. Time will tell.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I might as well combine my Josh Allen wank session with my previous posts about having a stud skill player. Allen transformed when the Bills went out and got Stefon Diggs. He immediately became more confident and was able to find mismatches. Diggs, by the way, was another guy who the board said Is aN OvErRaTeD dIvA AnD ToO eXpEnSiVe.

 

[Pats1971]

Is this satire or real? If that's the case with Jones after 14 games. Then Trevor Lawrence, Justin fields, Trey Lance and Zach Wilson must all be the biggest busts of all time.

Because they all have worse stats in every category than Jones.

Honest Question, what would Mac's stats be on the jags? Or Jets? Has Trey Lance even played? Nobody is saying he does not have the best stats of the rookie QB's, but I think a lot of that is about the team he plays for. Those other QB's do not rely on defense and run game to win, they were thrown into a fire and said, make us win. Mac was not

 

[GreenCow]

I told you last game that Allen didn't play like an upper tier QB, and that he had frankly played at a medicore level for much of the season after a hot start. And I was right about those things. But in the game yesterday, he may have played better than any QB in any game this season. He not only single handedly wrecked a top defense in a huge game, but he also overcame two touchdown drops and numerous gaffes by his teammates on offense.

He's a hell of an athlete...I'm surprised I rarely hear this comparison, but he reminds me a lot of John Elway. He's a threat on the ground and has a huge arm...his accuracy and generally low risk passes are more of a function of a modern offense in 2020 versus Elway in the 1980s when a 60% completion pct was good; same with the running...he would probably run a ton like Elway if coaches thought the same way as they did before. Not saying he is Elway, who made five Super Bowls, but physically his strengths are very similar.

The Elway comparison is one that is often made around Buffalo. So I can see why you can say that.

 

[Pats1971]

Well, yeah, there's a big drop off from picking #1 overall to #15. To be honest, usually there are 5-8 game changing players in a given draft. Picking them is loaded with peril. Remember Bledsoe vs Mirer? Players like Tua, Fields, Lance, Wilson, Lawrence are still finding their way. Getting Mac amidst all the different possible outcomes is not bad, IMO.

I'm no where as negative as you are on Mac. He hasn't been his sharpest in the last two games, even he says so. Hitting the wall is a real thing for a rookie. Yet I feel he is good at reading defenses and is good moving in and around the pocket. He's never going to be an elite runner or gunner. The comps we had coming out of college were Chad Pennington, Derek Carr, etc. He's on track to be that level player with IMO a chance of being better than that. It's too early to call.

There really are much more QB-needy teams than us right now, so moving away from Mac would take a ton of resources, and would be really out of character for the kind of team building this staff usually does.

I get it, the idea is to get a MVP candidate level starting QB, but if it were easy there'd be 32 guys competing for MVP rather than just one or two.

Really what we need to do is what we're doing, keep improving the team year by year and put Mac into the best position we can for him to "take the leap" next season or the one after that. We are really in no position to get another QB with high potential via draft or FA any time soon, the cost is simply too much. We're in a much better position if we keep coaching Mac up, help him continue to get stronger both mentally and physically, and keep building the team's overall talent level.

Then in year 4 of Mac's career, unless the growth curve really kicks in, we're in a big spot just like CLE with Mayfield. Do you sign him up long term? Who knows, the world will be a different place by then. Chances are BB will hang them up at some point along that curve. Time will tell.

Perfect post. gold star for you. Nobody is saying Mac sucks or that he will never be good, I just think he was a bit over hyped from what he is to what people thought he was this year. Not saying he wont be good, but right now, he is a rookie QB on a good team that the team does not rely on him to win, some of the other rookie QB's do not have that.

 

[Pats1971]

The Elway comparison is one that is often made around Buffalo. So I can see why you can say that.

Yeah its a good comparison, although I will say he is going to need to learn to slide because those hits add up.

 

[PaulThePat]

Honest Question, what would Mac's stats be on the jags? Or Jets? Has Trey Lance even played? Nobody is saying he does not have the best stats of the rookie QB's, but I think a lot of that is about the team he plays for. Those other QB's do not rely on defense and run game to win, they were thrown into a fire and said, make us win. Mac was not

So what's your plan?

 

[amfootball]

So what's your plan?

I don't think it is about a plan as much as about resetting expectations. We were used to the best QBing of all time for 20 years. We just have to re-adjust the thinking a bit.

 

[RIpats88]

Honest Question, what would Mac's stats be on the jags? Or Jets? Has Trey Lance even played? Nobody is saying he does not have the best stats of the rookie QB's, but I think a lot of that is about the team he plays for. Those other QB's do not rely on defense and run game to win, they were thrown into a fire and said, make us win. Mac was not

Mac is putting up stats no other rookies have except for Dak Prescott and roethlisberger in terms of completion percentages etc.

 

[tasmlab]

This is what our offense looks like when Harry gets significant reps. He isn't fast enough to draw coverage away like Agholor does and doesn't win his own battles. Harry is never going to get it done as a wr. He is a tall skinny blocking tight end and nothing more.

I was thinking that Harry should use the muscles and knuckles in his hands to wrap them around the football instead of karate chopping it out of the air with flat open hand.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Mac Jones does not pass the "eye test"

OK so he is a nice guy who does his homework, butters up BB, says all the right things and gives Bitcoin to his lineman.

Besides having a week arm, his decision making seems horrible, his reads are terrible , he stares down receivers, does not move around the pocket well, has NO zip on his throws, does not pass beyond 7-10 yards, has no swag or confidence, hit a brick wall at 10 games and has poor accuracy at this point. Blaming it all on the receivers is not the full story.

Lets compare that with a true franchise QB Justin Herbert, who in his rookie year looked dynamite
has a rocket for an arm, moves around the pocket deftly, can make defenses pay with his improvised runs, accuracy is off the charts, is decisive as hell. Now that is a franchise QB that will change the fortunes of the chargers long term.

"Hoping" that Jones will be better in his second year is just that "hope". Can not rely on him being a franchise QB. More likely to be middle of the pack. I think he lacks the skill and "makeup" of a true top tier QB.

Pats lose a big game and the here they come out of the woodwork.....

 

[RIpats88]

Just to put things in perspective. Josh Allen had 10tds to 12 interceptions his rookie year and 52% completion percentage. Now look where he is.

Just think people are being very reactionary on the kid over 2 so so games. For a rookie he has really good vision down the field. Pocket presence and a nice touch.

But he's still a rookie learning on the job.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I was thinking that Harry should use the muscles and knuckles in his hands to wrap them around the football instead of karate chopping it out of the air with flat open hand.

He simply doesn't have the physical and mental makeup to play in this offense.

Time to move on

 

[RIpats88]

I don't think it is about a plan as much as about resetting expectations. We were used to the best QBing of all time for 20 years. We just have to re-adjust the thinking a bit.

He's a rookie. No one should be comparing him to Tom Brady a 20 year vet GOAT. Kinda ridiculous to do so.

 

[PaulThePat]

I don't think it is about a plan as much as about resetting expectations.

Dunno. There are one or two on here who are already passing on Mac. Just wondered what their plan would be.