Official Patriots vs. Dolphins Post Game

[BKBroiler]

Finally, the Pats had the PERFECT defense called out for the 4th and 5 play. Had Sims not held Ryan (or it had been called properly by the refs) then Clay is down with a loss of 2. Instead, Ryan was held. McCourty over-ran the play and was taken out by Claybo. Fletcher got held and taken down and nearly wiped out Gregory who was the one who was able to get an arm on Clay and make the play.

I normally agree with you, but you are wrong on this play. Refs will not call holding when a TE or WR is in a good blocking position and have their hands inside the shoulders of the defender. That's exactly how Sims was blocking Ryan on the play. Whether he grabbed the jersey a bit is irrelevant. Guaranteed if you pull up the replays of all the Pats screens over the course of the season, there are multiple examples of Patriot blockers doing the same. If you want this one called, then you should be arguing that all of those should've been called too.

Also the Patriots did not have a perfect defense called to defend a screen pass on that play. It looked like they intended to put pressure up the middle, and the Dolphins guessed right. That said, some guys almost got back into position, but whiffed on the tackle (e.g., Fletcher and Gregory). If Gregory knew how to tackle properly (not wildly dive leading with his shoulder), he had a legitimate chance to wrap him up short because Fletcher slowed him up.

 

[State]

Re: Why didn't they use Will Svitek?

Great question. In the postgame thread there's speculation that Svitek was dinged up with a bad ankle, as Mankins said he practiced LT this week as a backup as Solder was ailing too.

But it turns out to be pertinent since Kline really struggled, which is odd for a Dante Scar-coached Oline. Something was happening behind the scenes we're not privvy to, as it seems to make so much more sense to use more seasoned players than an undrafted FA rookie.

 

[Sciz]

Re: Why didn't they use Will Svitek?

Injuries take away practice time, and when a guy's practice time is limited, you give him practice doing what he's more likely to do in the game. Both Svitek and Cannon have had to prepare to be the starting RT coming off some missed time, so my guess is that they were more comfortable with Mankins there rather than making either of the right tackles play on the left with no practice recently.

If Solder has another concussion, then he's almost definitely out of next week's game and I think we'll see Svitek at LT with a week to prepare.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Help~Why was Josh Kline put in?

The UDFA from I believe Kent State was put in for LG when Mankins filled in for an injured Solder...and Kline started making one mental error after another, causing Brady to get hit hard and the offense knocked out of rhythm. It was bad.

Not sure how you can say that Kline was making one mental error after another. What I saw was ONE play where he let #55 come in and turned to help Mankins and clearly seemed like he expected Wendell to pick up #55. That falls on Wendell and Brady since they are the ones calling out the blocking assignments.

Also. the LG is not responsible for picking up a stunt from the RE position. That is supposed to be the Center since the RE has to cross the center's line of sight.

 

[DaBruinz]

I normally agree with you, but you are wrong on this play. Refs will not call holding when a TE or WR is in a good blocking position and have their hands inside the shoulders of the defender. That's exactly how Sims was blocking Ryan on the play. Whether he grabbed the jersey a bit is irrelevant. Guaranteed if you pull up the replays of all the Pats screens over the course of the season, there are multiple examples of Patriot blockers doing the same. If you want this one called, then you should be arguing that all of those should've been called too.

Also the Patriots did not have a perfect defense called to defend a screen pass on that play. It looked like they intended to put pressure up the middle, and the Dolphins guessed right. That said, some guys almost got back into position, but whiffed on the tackle (e.g., Fletcher and Gregory). If Gregory knew how to tackle properly (not wildly dive leading with his shoulder), he had a legitimate chance to wrap him up short because Fletcher slowed him up.

The problem is that SIMS' hands were NOT inside Ryan's shoulder pads. They were OUTSIDE. And yes, grabbing the jersey IS relevant. I really wish people would stop making ***** up about that play. I watched it several times and it didn't change. Sims CLEARLY grabs Ryan's jersey OUTSIDE the shoulder pads and rag-dolls him out of the play. THAT is offensive holding by the receiver. And it is DIFFERENT than what the Pats have done.

 

[State]

Re: Why didn't they use Will Svitek?

Today shows we're thinning on the Oline. We released do-everything Nick McDonald. I guess he had an injury. We missed him today!

Svitek was supposed to be the replacement. Why wasn't he in? Sherlock Holmes logical tells me he wasn't physically healthy enough. I think we could have groomed a better candidate than this Kline fella, who was knocking heads with MAC defenders last year, and double-teamed a guy only to let a defender come in cleanly at Brady. A couple of times.

 

[DaBruinz]

Exactly. That play was not on Ryan. The WR got good position on him. While he may have grabbed the jersey, he was using correct form so the refs will never call it. If Gregory takes a better angle on the play to make the tackle and actually wraps him up instead of flying in with a shoulder, Clay is stopped short.

Correct form is NOT grabbing the jersey OUTSIDE the shoulders. Plain and simple. And I never said it was on Ryan. Gotta love how people can't be bothered to actually READ what is said.

 

[Brady6]

You cant win every week with the Refs calling PI or Holding.

NE got a gift on the Edelman TD because Cannon hooked his defender giving Brady time.

Right now officiating impacts every game for every team in positive and negative ways, using it as an excuse whether it is the reason or not is really like blaming the weather for a loss, you know it is going to have an impact and you need to prepare for that and what it could impact.

 

[Bhelmet]

It is really painful to have everything set up the way it was - controlling a #1 seed - but it just felt like it was just out of reach. This team has overcome so much and scrapped like no other. Unfortunately, it does not do enough to cover the shortcomings on the field. Hopefully, we have a good off-season because their is a lot of promise on this team and they are not far from being elite again. I know injuries are part of the game and they affect every team. This team has dealt with injuries better than I have ever seen. If for no other reason just because of the number of injuries that had to be overcome. I love the valiant effort, but I expect little. I can hardly wait for 2014.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Right now officiating impacts every game for every team in positive and negative ways, using it as an excuse whether it is the reason or not is really like blaming the weather for a loss, you know going in it is going to have an impact and you need to prepare for that and what it could impact.

Not only that, the home teams always seem to get the borderline calls. It's happened to the Patriots several times this season. On the road you almost expect to have to beat the other team and the refs.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Hopefully Pittsburgh wins tonight (I feel dirty typing that) and Detroit tomorrow. Then at least we still control the #2 seed and we back into the playoff birth and don't have to worry about that.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Except that the receiver DIDN'T have his hands inside the shoulders. He had his hands CLEARLY on the OUTSIDE of Ryan's shoulders. That's how I was able to see it so easily..

How about the plays where the refs miss calls that the camera misses also? That's why I don't blame refs for losses ... one would have the watch the all-22 from beginning to end and keep score of the calls to blame thew refs IMO. If you're within 7 points either way your team opens the door to a miscall.

 

[State]

You cant win every week with the Refs calling PI or Holding.

NE got a gift on the Edelman TD because Cannon hooked his defender giving Brady time.

Yeah, I saw that too in the replay. An obvious holding call. In defense, Cannon--who is a very talented player kept from the starting lineup by two All-Pro tackles--didn't hold it very long.

I think it's counterproductive and destructive to focus too much on officiating, unless it's dramatic. Like in the Jets and Panthers games. Letting the Phins get away with obvious pass interference penalties that aren't egregious enough to warrant the flag, but calling Chris Jones on the penalty on the long FG? That doesn't jive turkey to me.

 

[FourierSeries]

Really worried about the Ravens game now.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

My thoughts are, Edelman and amendola need someone to stretch the field with them. Boyce isn't that guy IMO. We need Dobson and KT out there. Edelman is a beast, so is amendola.

The 2 issues on offense are the oline not showing up a critical times, and a big RZ target. Today we really needed Dobson or KT to go up and get the ball in the RZ.

Defense: they need to just get healthier. The secondary is very good when it is healthy. So it would be critical if we can secure a #2 seed.

I still believe that this team can get hot in the playoffs.

 

[Bella*chick]

Really worried about the Ravens game now.

I'm actually less worried.

 

[primetime]

Yeah, officiating goes both ways. They've won a couple with help from questionable calls this year, and lost a couple with help from questionable calls. There's something frustrating about a sport where so much rides on subjective calls by officials, but that's a tangent probably not worth exploring right now.

The defense failed to come up big when it was needed. Miami exploited Marquice Cole, possibly the worst cornerback in the league, when he was pressed into service by Arrington's short absence. They exploited Donta Hightower in coverage.

That non-catch by Amendola would have been very difficult for any NFL receiver to make, especially with a corner right there to knock the ball out. Both he and Edelman played a great game. Having Dobson and/or Thompkins down towards the goal line the few times they got down there and had to settle for field goals may have made a big difference.

 

[Brady6]

Correct form is NOT grabbing the jersey OUTSIDE the shoulders. Plain and simple. And I never said it was on Ryan. Gotta love how people can't be bothered to actually READ what is said.

I agree there were some should be calls today but you cannot expect perfect officiating every week it is all but certain that the officials are going to impact the game in good and bad ways. Imperfections are part of the game, they’re part of all pro sports, teams prepare and have the fortitude to overcome these imperfections whether they’re by their offense (interception, fumble, etc.), their defense (blown coverage, missed tackles, etc.), special teams (missed field goals, blown kick coverage, etc.) or officiating (missed call, bad call, etc.). For me unless it is a gross misconduct or intentionally detrimental to serve their own agenda I have a hard time saying the only reason a team won or lost is because of imperfections by one of the main components of the game. Brady throws interceptions, officials miss calls it is all part of the game of football.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

a number 3 seed is not the end of the world, although some of you are acting as if the patriots are toast if they don't get a bye. a 3 seed will draw most likely miami in round 1 - a game they should win. next, they automatically go to Cincinnatti - also a winnable game. Then they are in the AFC championship vs (KC or Denver). I really believe KC can beat Denver in the divisional round since it's difficult to beat a division opponent 3 times in the same season. Out of all this, the patriots host KC in the AFC championship game.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

I know it happens more than I remember, but it really feels like pretty much every time the defense is on the field late clinging to a close lead, the best hope is they leave some time on the clock.

It just seems like there have been so many Patriots games where the team can win by getting off the field but just can't do it unless it's a truly hopeless situation for the offense -- like 30 seconds to get 60 yards. Like, all 5 super bowls in the Brady era had that happen. So many gut wrenching playoff and big regular season losses. Even in wins. Needing a stop when the other team has 4 downs to play with seems so elusive. Maybe it is for every team. I'm sure it's happened way more than I recall, but it's to the point where I'm just resigned that it's going to happen -- 4th and 10, 3d and 20, doesn't matter. The other team will find a way. It's weird, because I can remember lots and lots of great defensive stops late when the Patriots are trailing or when it's tied. But when the other team is in desperation mode down 7 or less, more often than not, we're toast.