Official Patriots vs. Dolphins Post Game

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Can't disagree more. It's not a matter of battling. It's a matter of performing. When you have no time to throw, and no open guys, there are few out there who could give it a go under those conditions.

Name them.

I guess we have different definitions for turtling. Trying to perform and failing isn't turtling in my book; turtling is simply giving up because you see the impending failure.

I'm further confused by the fact that you say it's a matter of performing, and then say 'give it a go'. Either you or I don't understand these idioms. Can we move away from them?

I don't think anyone in the league could perform as well as Brady under these circumstances. He's the most efficient passer in the league and one of the fiercest competitors. That combination means that he outperforms everyone when under duress.

I do think most of QBs in the league would be trying under these circumstances. The problem is most start making bad decisions. This isn't because they're giving up, but because they're not as good as Tom Brady.

Rivers, Romo, Rapist, Rodgers, and E. Manning have all played the position to varying levels of success with equally questionable offenses. I don't think they did it to the level of Brady, and some did it with quite a bit of melodrama.

 

[Kontradiction]

A minute ago, I just rewatched the play to see if my initial impression (which was the same as yours) held up. But the guy on Amendola had inside position and would have broken up the play or tackled him before the end zone. Amendola appeared to be open in retrospect because the Dolphin pulled up after Brady threw it to Collie, but had Brady thrown it to Amendola, I believe he would have broken it up.

The key play in the sequence was the throw to Hooman. He was isolated, one guy, and Hooman had beaten him. The throw was perfect too. That was the TD right there.

We'll have to disagree there. Brady could have put that ball a little higher and the defender would have had a difficult, if not impossible, task of breaking it up. Whether or not Amendola would have been tackled before the goal line is up for discussion, though. But that's a pass that could have been completed. Amendola looked like he would have been next in Brady's progression on that play, but the play was hurried which made him force the pass to a well covered Collie.

 

[upstater1]

I guess we have different definitions for turtling. Trying to perform and failing isn't turtling in my book; turtling is simply giving up because you see the impending failure.

I'm further confused by the fact that you say it's a matter of performing, and then say 'give it a go'. Either you or I don't understand these idioms. Can we move away from them?

I don't think anyone in the league could perform as well as Brady under these circumstances. He's the most efficient passer in the league and one of the fiercest competitors. That combination means that he outperforms everyone when under duress.

I do think most of QBs in the league would be trying under these circumstances. The problem is most start making bad decisions. This isn't because they're giving up, but because they're not as good as Tom Brady.

Rivers, Romo, Rapist, Rodgers, and E. Manning have all played the position to varying levels of success with equally questionable offenses. I don't think they did it to the level of Brady, and some did it with quite a bit of melodrama.

By turtling I mean panicking. Throwing to a guy early in the progression. Remaining calm and cool is the opposite of that. Rodgers without his receivers was a shell of himself. Pretty bad. Rivers has not been without his WRs for as long as I can remember.

 

[condon84]

i saw that in the replay and i knew it would have been a TD if brady had more time...frustrating

On that last sequence of plays, Brady never looked at the middle of the field.

 

[Deus Irae]

The pass was high and he was in the process of catching it -- bringing it down to his body for full possession with both hands on it -- when the defender knocked it out of his possession. He did not "blow it" or "drop" that pass. It simply was a good play by Thomas. Not even your sweet binky Welker would've come down with that ball.

I watched the replay many times. Amendola should have had it. Also, one screen cap, when the catch is an entire process?


Don't be that guy.

 

[condon84]

You guys are nuts if you think that was an easy play for a midget like Amendola to make. He barely got his fingers on it nevermind have a defender's arm inbetween knocking the ball lose.

He could have made a spectacular play but I don't fault him for that incompletion at all.

Had that been Dobson, that would have been completed since he is a bigger and more physical receiver.

 

[Tunescribe]

I watched the replay many times. Amendola should have had it. Also, one screen cap, when the catch is an entire process?


Don't be that guy.

Deus, I watched it many times as well. The catch was well defended. In this case the photo is telling, as you clearly can see Thomas's hand at the ball between Amendola's arms as he brings it down. Saying Amendola "blew it" or "dropped" it simply is inaccurate. I have no idea what anyone could suggest he should have done differently. What do you believe he did wrong other than not making the catch with the defender punching it from his grasp?

 

[upstater1]

On that last sequence of plays, Brady never looked at the middle of the field.

He must have thrown it to Hooman without looking at him. The amazing Brady!!!

 

[BradyManny]

The Welker drop was a slightly misthrown ball that still should've been a routine adjustment and catch.

The Amendola incompletion was a perfectly thrown ball that was tremendously defended. It would have been an excellent catch had he held on.

Could Amendola have had it? Yes. But the other guys gets paid, too, and they made a nice play.

 

[SVN]

Chat: Chat with Tedy Bruschi - SportsNation - ESPN Boston

from tedy's chat

Tron (Waltham, MA)

Hey Tedy, I hate going this route because it seems like the tape always gives the same answer--execution--but do you think the play calling in the red zone could have been a bit more creative? In the championship days when passing was harder, the Pats got it done without All-Pro tight ends and wide receivers. Fauria, Wiggins (TEs) and Givens, Patten (WRs) were great red-zone targets, but were they that much better than the guys the Patriots have now or was the play-calling just better at utilizing their skill set? Or is it just execution and Amendola should have caught that ball...
Tedy (2:02 PM)

I had no problem with the play-calling. The problem I had was that the players running the plays seemed out of position. You had small receivers running big receiver routes. You had smaller receivers, like Danny Amendola and Julian Edelman, who have to make plays over a defender that you'd usually be asking your bigger receivers to make. I don't want Amendola going up for a jump ball. It's tougher for Julian Edelman to catch a ball in traffic, in the air, over the middle. Shane Vereen couldn't be let out because of protection. The lack of size with the team's receivers was evident in this game. ...
Tedy (2:04 PM)

... Last week, I talked about how the smaller receivers needed to become more of a focal point of the offense with Rob Gronkowski injured, but the vision was that they would do so on shorter routes in which they could create after the catch. What we saw Sunday, based on the circumstances, was that they had to run more vertical routes and that's where the lack of size showed up.

Lot of other good things today in the chat

Jen (Tuscon, AZ)

For the last month or so, our LBs look lost in space. Scheme, talent or coaching?
Tedy (2:26 PM)

This is one of the problems I saw yesterday, especially when the defense was in man coverage. The longer a down goes, the less chance a defender has to cover the receiver, running back or tight end. If you're in man coverage, your defensive line must know it has to get to the passer. You just can't ask linebackers like Dont'a Hightower, Brandon Spikes or Dane Fletcher to cover for more than four seconds -- or even one of the best cover LBs in the league -- or you'll get exposed. The Patriots' pass rush hasn't been able to get there, especially on the interior. Chandler Jones is producing, yes. But the best edge rushers usually work in conjunction with someone who can get some push in the pocket.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

You guys are nuts if you think that was an easy play for a midget like Amendola to make. He barely got his fingers on it nevermind have a defender's arm inbetween knocking the ball lose.

He could have made a spectacular play but I don't fault him for that incompletion at all.

Had that been Dobson, that would have been completed since he is a bigger and more physical receiver.

I never fault a guy for not making a great play. Great plays are things you don't "expect" someone to make...so how can we "fault" someone for not making one?

But, great plays can be the difference between winning games and losing games...between winning championships and losing championships. No one would have "faulted" Adam Vinatieri for missing the kick that tied the Snow Bowl...45 yards into the teeth of a blizzard, a line drive with a football that was like a piece of lead and just snuck over the goal post...but if he misses it and the Pats don't take that game into OT (where he kicked another tough, but easier FG to win it), the Pats go home and there is no trip to SB XXXVI, no three SB's in four years...

...so, yeah, it would have been a spectacular catch...and the Pats would have the division wrapped and be in control of the number one seed today if he had made it.

 

[I am party]

-- I didn't like the way Ridley carried the ball on one play (4th Q, 6:18 remaining). He gained a nice 5 or 6 yards on 1st down, but 1) he had just one hand on the ball in moderate traffic, and 2) if you're gonna carry it with one hand, at least use the correct hand. He used the inside hand instead of the outside hand. He may be reverting to old habits again, getting too comfortable with the rock and not treating it like the precious commodity that it is.

-- The Edelman TD was interesting for a couple of reasons. 1) Vereen drew two defenders (a DB and an LB) on his route out of the backfield, which freed up the middle of the field for Edelman. 2) Jimmy Wilson made a pathetic "tackle" attempt on Julian. Calling it a tackle attempt is too generous though, as all he did was feebly slap at the ball with one hand as Edelman went right by him, even though he was in good position to make a TD saving tackle. He's lucky they ended up winning.