Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown (EXCELLENT READ)

[eom]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

yeah, people like to pick on light, but by the nature of his position he's going to get burned occasionally --- just like hobbs on plax.
it's not like he was the problem, and I'd be a little skeptical if they went w/a rookie at that position.
that said, you always want to try to upgrade the line if you can.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

I guess that explains how we set new league scoring records over the course of the season...

The '98 Vikings and '01 Rams set Regular Season scoring records, too. But what did they really win?

What you are failing to come to terms with is Spagnolo sold his team on a plan. Pressure at all cost. It was the only real shot the Giants had. His only hope was they didn't make costly mistakes before the pressure became unbearable and they didn't wear out before his offense scored some points. The Giants weren't thinking, let alone buying sells, just executing the plan. They dominated the LOS irrespective of adjustments that were in fact made for all but 2 5 minute drives, and that was enough. That was the beauty of it.

I agree that Spagnuolo sold his defense on the All Pressure All the Time plan. So when it became obvious that the Pats' OL was failing, sometimes miserably (see: 2nd quarter, two straight 7-yard sacks during one 3-and-out series), to hold its own in conventional pass-protection assignments, then it should have become necessary to empty the bag of tricks and hope that the OL could run-block, trap, draw, reverse, and play-action better in the second half.

In the end, both OL and OC/HC failed to help each other overcome their own weaknesses.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

Then Maroney/Faulk should have been given delayed draws toward the tackles, if up-the-middle draws would not have worked. And installing more Jumbo formations was a no-brainer.

Fact is, that BB/McD/TB did not take full advantage of the jints' upfield aggressiveness, esp. when conventional pass-pro blocking was not working.

The definition of "insanity" is...

In football at the NFL level, there is one kind of pressure that no pocket passer can consistently beat, and that's pressure up the middle. This game was lost for a simple reason, although other factors helped: arguably the best left guard in the NFL had inarguably his worst game of the season. Mankins stunk it up like week old fish. Interesting to me, as with last season's loss, even with all the problems, the team was still in position to win the game had not easy plays been blown at the end. The team that never cracks has cracked in successive seasons.

My only issue with play calling on this team is the same one I've kept to myself all season, but I'll toss it out there now. I just don't understand why this team doesn't use Moss and Stallworth in motion to hit them with slants more often. I would think that those plays would be all but automatic for this group.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

1) In football at the NFL level, there is one kind of pressure that no pocket passer can consistently beat, and that's pressure up the middle. This game was lost for a simple reason, although other factors helped: arguably the best left guard in the NFL had inarguably his worst game of the season. Mankins stunk it up like week old fish. Interesting to me, as with last season's loss, even with all the problems, the team was still in position to win the game had not easy plays been blown at the end. The team that never cracks has cracked in successive seasons.

2) My only issue with play calling on this team is the same one I've kept to myself all season, but I'll toss it out there now. I just don't understand why this team doesn't use Moss and Stallworth in motion to hit them with slants more often. I would think that those plays would be all but automatic for this group.

1) Good point. The jints' pressure up the middle disrupted a lot of the things the Pats tried to do, and may have disrupted some of the things I wanted them to try to do. It still blows my mind how poorly the OL handled only 4/5 rushers. I wonder what was being said in the huddles, and at halftime, by Brady and Dante to these guys during the game.

2) I completely agree with you re: the lack of slant patterns during the season and esp. in the SB. I really don't think that the HC/OC were imaginative enough with their play-calling. They basically ran the same plays that they had run throughout the season, incl. Week 17.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

1) Good point. The jints' pressure up the middle disrupted a lot of the things the Pats tried to do, and may have disrupted some of the things I wanted them to try to do. It still blows my mind how poorly the OL handled only 4/5 rushers. I wonder what was being said in the huddles, and at halftime, by Brady and Dante to these guys during the game.

I really think that Mankins just folded under the pressure. He was getting smoked all game, and it didn't matter who was opposite him. Unless there was an undisclosed injury, he just gas piped it. To be fair to him, I think the Patriots drew up the worst offensive game plan that they had all season. Only the dead didn't know that the Giants would be blitzing all game. The team would have been better served coming out in 1 wideout packages and goal line packages than running the crap they did.

2) I completely agree with you re: the lack of slant patterns during the season and esp. in the SB. I really don't think that the HC/OC were imaginative enough with their play-calling. They basically ran the same plays that they had run throughout the season, incl. Week 17.

I don't think imagination was the problem, to be honest, I just think it was poor game planning and an unexplained aversion to the slant. With this team going 18-0, it was pretty clear that getting cute was not something that needed to be done. Slants, though, are almost guaranteed catches if you've got top flight receivers moving at the line. Against that secondary, Stallworth + Slant pass = long TD at least once per game, I'd think.

 

[eom]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

Only the dead didn't know that the Giants would be blitzing all game.

.

 

[Spiral]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

Belioli is always looking for value. One of the reasons they started using the 3-4 was that undersized defensive linemen coming out of college were pretty cheap, draft-pick, and salary-wise.

Maybe this team needs an undersized offensive tackle who can play against the 250-lb speed rushers. Some second-day guy with some athleticism who's a little light in the butt. Would be on the 53-man roster, but might not dress every game, depending upon match-ups. After looking at Nick Kaczur getting turnstiled on a regular basis, I think Belioli ought to get more creative.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

1) I really think that Mankins just folded under the pressure. He was getting smoked all game, and it didn't matter who was opposite him. Unless there was an undisclosed injury, he just gas piped it. To be fair to him, I think the Patriots drew up the worst offensive game plan that they had all season. Only the dead didn't know that the Giants would be blitzing all game. The team would have been better served coming out in 1 wideout packages and goal line packages than running the crap they did.




2) I don't think imagination was the problem, to be honest, I just think it was poor game planning and an unexplained aversion to the slant. With this team going 18-0, it was pretty clear that getting cute was not something that needed to be done. Slants, though, are almost guaranteed catches if you've got top flight receivers moving at the line. Against that secondary, Stallworth + Slant pass = long TD at least once per game, I'd think.

1) Of all the OLmen from which to choose for folding under the jints' pressure, Mankins would have been last on my list. Very disappointing.

2) Another beauty of the slant is that the QB doesn't have to hold onto the ball as long as he has to for other patterns. The Pats' WR screens are somewhat similar to slants; during a screen, though, the WR usually catches the ball while standing still, whereas during a slant, the WR usually catches the ball while running, sometimes in full stride. And I completely agree with the formula: Stallworth + Slant = Long TD.

 

[unoriginal]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

While I'm happy to see the consensus has moved away from blaming Matt Light (and Nick Kaczur) for all our problems, I now feel obligated to point that perhaps the most important reason Logan Mankins had such a bad night in the Super Bowl was that he saw the most of Justin Tuck.

Tuck made just about every interior lineman we had look bad during the game, and frequently. He would have been my choice for Super Bowl MVP, by an extended country mile.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

While I'm happy to see the consensus has moved away from blaming Matt Light (and Nick Kaczur) for all our problems, I now feel obligated to point that perhaps the most important reason Logan Mankins had such a bad night in the Super Bowl was that he saw the most of Justin Tuck.

Tuck made just about every interior lineman we had look bad during the game, and frequently. He would have been my choice for Super Bowl MVP, by an extended country mile.

It wasn't just Tuck who made Mankins look awful. Mankins played the role of turnstile all game long. I think he's up for an Oscar for his on-point performance.

 

[unoriginal]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

It wasn't just Tuck who made Mankins look awful. Mankins played the role of turnstile all game long. I think he's up for an Oscar for his on-point performance.

Here how my demerits look for Mankins:

Tuck		7
Cofield		2
Mitchell	1

Cofield is a pretty good DT in his own right, so its not like Mankins was being beat by slouches.

And here's how the demerits (or from his perspective, merits) break down for Justin Tuck:

Mankins		7
Koppen		3
Hochstein	1
Kaczur		1

The best way to measure this would be to go back to the game and watch where Justin Tuck lined up each play. As I don't really want to do that, I hope the above will suffice, along with my vague recollections, to demonstrate that it was mostly a Tuck v. Mankins affair on the evening.

Mankins did poorly, but its not like he stumbled onto the field and was just way worse than anyone else on the offensive line. He was simply over-matched by a superior player.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

Mankins did poorly, but its not like he stumbled onto the field and was just way worse than anyone else on the offensive line. He was simply over-matched by a superior player.

Again, thanks for the insight - frustrating conclusions to hear though. I think fans would rather hear we were outcoached or outschemed b/c that's something that can be fixed. Not having enough talent on the line to deal with the Giants rush, that's something else.

I don't know if the Giants are good enough all around to ever meet us again in the Super Bowl (and yes, I am matter of factly stating we'll be back soon), but if we do, yes, I'm afraid of the fact that our DL dominated our OL.

 

[VOODOOZF]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

It's upsetting to see in black and white how they Pat's o-line was simply dominated by the Giants.

If the O-Line has a mediocre game the Patriots win the Superbowl by two td's.

 

[d.finn.patsfan.]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

hey unoriginal, i'm trying to do a breakdown on Laurence Maroney and the offensive line scheme, and i'm wondering how you get the screenshots of plays. I see you have high quality shots of the offensive line, and i was wondering how you did it.

thanks

 

[unoriginal]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

hey unoriginal, i'm trying to do a breakdown on Laurence Maroney and the offensive line scheme, and i'm wondering how you get the screenshots of plays. I see you have high quality shots of the offensive line, and i was wondering how you did it.

I downloaded an HD torrent of the game from tenyardtorrents, then pause the game and take screenshots of the video player. Then I paste and edit in an image editor. It could well be that you have a video player with the screenshot ability built-in, however.

If you're using windows, I believe ALT + Print Screen will take a screenshot of only the selected application.

If you're thinking of posting screenshots like I do, you can generally reduce jpeg quality down to 50% or below with loss of legibility.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

I downloaded an HD torrent of the game from tenyardtorrents, then pause the game and take screenshots of the video player. Then I paste and edit in an image editor. It could well be that you have a video player with the screenshot ability built-in, however.

If you're using windows, I believe ALT + Print Screen will take a screenshot of only the selected application.

If you're thinking of posting screenshots like I do, you can generally reduce jpeg quality down to 50% or below with loss of legibility.

This is too good to just let fade away. Maybe we should sticky this thread for a while.

What do you think?

 

[d.finn.patsfan.]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

I downloaded an HD torrent of the game from tenyardtorrents, then pause the game and take screenshots of the video player. Then I paste and edit in an image editor. It could well be that you have a video player with the screenshot ability built-in, however.

If you're using windows, I believe ALT + Print Screen will take a screenshot of only the selected application.

If you're thinking of posting screenshots like I do, you can generally reduce jpeg quality down to 50% or below with loss of legibility.

you.are.a.lifesaver.

thank you very much.

 

[eom]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

This is too good to just let fade away. Maybe we should sticky this thread for a while.

What do you think?

seconded.

thx for the work, unoriginal -- by the way.

 

[Pats726]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

I'd third a sticky on this one...absolutely!!!

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

Re: Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown

I'm a Steelers fan and this is one of my favorite posts on any forum to read, Sticky the heck out of it. Its one of the best breakdowns of a game that I've ever seen...

and Yes, I will be Stealing (pun) your method to breakdown Steelers oline play next season, if its anything like this past years, I'll have loads of work to keep me busy.

Great work.