N'Keal Harry (lack of) Progress Report

[farn]

If you read the article, he is being replaced by MARSHALL NEWHOUSE. That is one name we can all agree "sucks". The Titans playoff hopes are one injury away from being destroyed by playing Newhouse. Imagine the delight of any DLineman going into a playoff game to square off against Newhouse.

Newhouse is just there to ever so slightly slow down the D, allowing Henry to steamroll.

 

[Kontradiction]

Wrong. Harry’s speed is a problem but on that particular play/route against that particular LB, who was drafted on day 2 in large part for his elite positional speed and change of direction abilities, Harry’s lack of speed was not the problem. We aren’t talking about a go-route against Roberts. That route as well as the timing of Cam’s throw was not going to allow Harry to separate. He had a step on Baker but had to slow his route a fraction of a second to adjust to the pass and that was enough to catch up to him 8-10 yards later.

Baker’s 40 time (4.53) was in the range of Sutton (4.54) and Gallup (4.51), two of the best WRs in that 2018 class. On this play in partcular, straight line speed of the defender absolutely matters.

LOL, so do you envision Baker keeping up with Sutton and Gallup? I somehow don’t. Those two have been able to separate from pro corners even when being pressed. In Sutton’s case, it’s been against CB1s at this level. Speed on the field is different from 40 speed. See Jerry Rice. Again, you’re not actually debating the point. You’re just trying to excuse Harry, who should be a Move-TE at this point. He hasn’t learned to use his body and get physical to create separation against quicker corners and he’s DOA when he’s pressed.

 

[203Pat]

Amazing after seeing what we’ve seen from Harry anyone can defend him. He’s stealing money at this point.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

LOL, so do you envision Baker keeping up with Sutton and Gallup? I somehow don’t. Those two have been able to separate from pro corners even when being pressed. In Sutton’s case, it’s been against CB1s at this level. Speed on the field is different from 40 speed. See Jerry Rice. Again, you’re not actually debating the point. You’re just trying to excuse Harry, who should be a Move-TE at this point. He hasn’t learned to use his body and get physical to create separation against quicker corners and he’s DOA when he’s pressed.

I think he might be commenting on (and correcting) one specific play that was wrongly analyzed by another poster, and you are generalising his comment to an overall opinion. I sometimes agree with a poster but think their argument is flawed and I comment on the flaw. That does not mean I disagree with the whole premise.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think he might be commenting on (and correcting) one specific play that was wrongly analyzed by another poster, and you are generalising his comment to an overall opinion. I sometimes agree with a poster but think their argument is flawed and I comment on the flaw. That does not mean I disagree with the whole premise.

His argument was saying that Harry could have separated had the throw not been late. That’s what I’m disagreeing with. You should go watch the play. Play action, Harry emerges from the trash, he’s Cam’s first read (by design), Cam puts the ball right in front of him, and Harry gets run down from behind. He’s trying to excuse it. Last week, the poster I’m responding to was complaining about people here already calling the 2020 season a bust, which hasn’t happened. I asked him to quote them and got ghosted. This week, he’s trying to excuse Harry for getting run down by blaming Cam when that isn’t true either. So, and I’m not intending to offend the poster in question when I say this, but I’m getting the feel that he’s one of those “defend every pick until the bitter end” kind of guys. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and beliefs. But I disagree with his analysis. It’s right in the YouTube vid. You can watch and re-watch until an asteroid strike annihilates the Earth. I truly have no clue what he’s looking at.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

His argument was saying that Harry could have separated had the throw not been late. That’s what I’m disagreeing with. You should go watch the play. Play action, Harry emerges from the trash, he’s Cam’s first read (by design), Cam puts the ball right in front of him, and Harry gets run down from behind. He’s trying to excuse it. Last week, the poster I’m responding to was complaining about people here already calling the 2020 season a bust, which hasn’t happened. I asked him to quote them and got ghosted. This week, he’s trying to excuse Harry for getting run down by blaming Cam when that isn’t true either. So, and I’m not intending to offend the poster in question when I say this, but I’m getting the feel that he’s one of those “defend every pick until the bitter end” kind of guys. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and beliefs. But I disagree with his analysis. It’s right in the YouTube vid. You can watch and re-watch until an asteroid strike annihilates the Earth. I truly have no clue what he’s looking at.

I do not know his intention. I understand you are getting "the feel" about him. What feel are you getting about me?

It is a bang, bang play. Harry is chipped at the line, it is a short route, the LB is one of the faster ones, Cam has NEVER thrown a pass leading a receiver properly, and it would be nice if Harry could pull away from LBs like a 1st round WR should. All of that is true. With all of Harry's horrible plays why talk about one that is not horrible?

 

[captain stone]

Givens was good for the Pats, as a possession guy, especially in the playoffs (see consecutive game w/TD record). When he went to TENN, I believe he caught 8 passes for 104 yards in the first 5 games (slow start) after signing a 24M contract and never returned after a ACL right after that.

I point it out because he probably wasn't a good WR. I think he was perfect for the 2002-2005 Pats. If Pats had him I bet they beat the Colts in the Reche Caldwell bug eyes game (caveat: working from memory here if the timing is wrong don't crush me)

Nope your timing is right: Givens left after the 2005 season and Bug Eyes signed here before 2006 started.

 

[captain stone]

Rae Carruth & Ryan Leaf (not to mention JaMarcus Russell & Akili Smith) were first round picks. Let’s pump the breaks on “worst ever first rounder” talk.

I don't believe they're claiming that Harry is the Worst 1st-Rounder of All Time...just the worst of Bill's tenure...

But even then I'm still not sure about that...Stomper Meriweather & Dom Easily(hurt) come immediately to mind...

 

[Patsgofor4]

I think he might be commenting on (and correcting) one specific play that was wrongly analyzed by another poster, and you are generalising his comment to an overall opinion. I sometimes agree with a poster but think their argument is flawed and I comment on the flaw. That does not mean I disagree with the whole premise.

Correct. I thought that I had made it abundantly clear that my posts were about that one play.

I have been a Harry backer and had been holding out hope that he would finally “get it” with more reps/experience but I have given up any hope (ok, maybe I am holding on to 3-5% of the hope) that he will become an impactful player in the passing game. I still can’t reconcile Harry’s college dominance and what we have seen in him as a Patriot, and why JMD seems so disinclined to put him in a position to use his size, strength and jumping ability in games, but I recognize that the pick was a colossal mistake, particularly when most of the top 10 WRs (pre-draft rankings) have balled out.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Last week, the poster I’m responding to was complaining about people here already calling the 2020 season a bust, which hasn’t happened. I asked him to quote them and got ghosted.

Fake news. I wrote that other the Onwenu, some posters were already labeling the ***2020 DRAFT*** a bust, just as several had labeled Asiasi and Keene busts even earlier in the season, despite ample evidence that it often takes 2 full seasons of development for TEs to become impactful players (with examples from 2019 draft and this year’s draft). I honestly didn’t pay close enough attention to your reply, to see your request for examples, but I’m sure that others here read and remember the posts to which I was referring. It shouldn’t be shocking to anyone that Captain Stone was responsible for one of the posts.

 

[moosekill]

Football is a team sport. Statistically, Cam is just about the worst qb in the league. If he is that bad it is a combination of o-line, wr’s, tight ends, and the qb that causes this I believe the pats o-line is damn good. So then it comes down to how much of the suckitude is the qb’s fault and how much is the WR and TE’s fault. Edelman had 1 good game with cam. Was it an injury or Cam sucking or does Edelman suck that caused that. At some point picking on one wr and saying it is his fault when everyone else is sucking doesn’t make any sense and is simply lazy armchair quarterbacking.

 

[Boomer B]

Football is a team sport. Statistically, Cam is just about the worst qb in the league. If he is that bad it is a combination of o-line, wr’s, tight ends, and the qb that causes this I believe the pats o-line is damn good. So then it comes down to how much of the suckitude is the qb’s fault and how much is the WR and TE’s fault. Edelman had 1 good game with cam. Was it an injury or Cam sucking or does Edelman suck that caused that. At some point picking on one wr and saying it is his fault when everyone else is sucking doesn’t make any sense and is simply lazy armchair quarterbacking.

It’s a fair point that Cam has for the most part sucked, but part of that argument could be that Cam had the worst WR/TE group in the league to throw to.

The other thing is the eye test. Just watching the games you can see Harry is well behind Meyers and Byrd even though he’s had more opportunities. He can’t separate on medium or long routes so they try to get the ball in his hands on screens and quick throws and he can’t break a tackle.

The game he had decent success was against the soft Seattle cover 3 zone where he wasn’t blanketed by man to man. The Chargers typically play the same Seattle cover 3 zone which the Patriots coaches have figured out how to attack. It’ll be interesting if the Chargers change to an 8 man box and man coverage like others have or if they stick to zone. If they do stick to zone Harry could have a bit more success.

 

[moosekill]

It’s a fair point that Cam has for the most part sucked, but part of that argument could be that Cam had the worst WR/TE group in the league to throw to.

The other thing is the eye test. Just watching the games you can see Harry is well behind Meyers and Byrd even though he’s had more opportunities. He can’t separate on medium or long routes so they try to get the ball in his hands on screens and quick throws and he can’t break a tackle.

The game he had decent success was against the soft Seattle cover 3 zone where he wasn’t blanketed by man to man. The Chargers typically play the same Seattle cover 3 zone which the Patriots coaches have figured out how to attack. It’ll be interesting if the Chargers change to an 8 man box and man coverage like others have or if they stick to zone. If they do stick to zone Harry could have a bit more success.

Harry us a different kind of receiver than Meyers and Byrd are. Eye tests are usually put out there by people with no clue at all what they are talking about. Cam suck

 

[Boomer B]

Harry us a different kind of receiver than Meyers and Byrd are. Eye tests are usually put out there by people with no clue at all what they are talking about. Cam suck

Well, if you don’t like the eye test how about how the coaches feel about him? He’s lost his starting job and when it’s 2 receiver sets it’s mainly Byrd and Meyers. They don’t demote players they are happy with.

Jakobi Meyers says N'Keal Harry has been 'a professional' about demotion

Jakobi Meyers jumped N’Keal Harry on the depth chart.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

 

[moosekill]

Well, if you don’t like the eye test how about how the coaches feel about him? He’s lost his starting job and when it’s 2 receiver sets it’s mainly Byrd and Meyers. They don’t demote players they are happy with.

Jakobi Meyers says N'Keal Harry has been 'a professional' about demotion

Jakobi Meyers jumped N’Keal Harry on the depth chart.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

If you have a qb who can't/won't throw balls into any kind of coverage, and you have a receiver whose game is to go up and get those balls, then why would you keep playing him. Cam seems to have almost no accuracy, and is unwilling/unable to throw into tight coverage. If that is Harry's strength why would you bother continuing to start him. If you have an awful offensive line and your running back is averaging 3 yards a carry is he a bad running back or is it the lines fault. We have a qb who currently can't hit the broad side of the barn with a pass. Perhaps it is all the wr's faults but sometimes the simplest answer is correct. Cam sucks. Until we have a 1/2 decent qb throwing to the wide receivers we don't really know how good or bad they are. My guess is a great qb would probably have had more than 90 yards of passing last week, even with this receiving core.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Call him Mr. Touchdown.

 

[notex]

Haters aren’t gonna like that TD

 

[203Pat]

Haters aren’t gonna like that TD

No one is rooting for him to fail.

 

[IllegalContact]

No one is rooting for him to fail.

yes they are

 

[Uptown]

“The Gunner Game..”