N'Keal Harry (lack of) Progress Report

[Wozzy]

They were open because they were facing an absolutely terrible defense playing a ton of off zone. And White is not a WR.



I won’t disagree there. His mechanics leave a lot to be desired. Those balls he skipped were due to him not fully stepping into his throws. We used to have a guy with perfect mechanics. And if the WRs are as talented as you’re claiming they are, then I’m baffled why we let him go. Surely the supposed GOAT HC could have had a come to Jesus moment with him, right?



I have DT as the second biggest need after QB. We need a toilet clogging 0-tech NT badly and we’ve needed it for a few years now. Shelton, who I recall you being absolutely pumped about, was not that guy.

They WR's have been open all season, the ability to get them the ball has been the issue. Byrd should have close to double digit TD's at this point. Cam was horrible, he is slowly getting respectable but will never be the long term answer. If we're lucky he'll develop into the Ryan Fitzpatrick bridge to the next high draft pick rookie QB.

They had a run stuffer in Beau Allen, he got hurt. They found another in Carl Davis, I'll have to look at the snap counts but it appeared like he didn't play much at all today. These guys are Nose Tackles, you'd like at least one like Shelton on the roster for run heavy teams like Baltimore.

IMO they need a penetrating DT who is talented enough to both stop the run and shove a center back into opposing QB's faces and a true 4/3 DE like Trey Flowers who is talented. Guy is like Mike Wright, a good lunch pail guy.

Cowart, Adam Butler, Wise... these guys are jags. Butler and Wise can rush the passer some, but aren't good against the run, they're front runners who make plays with a lead. They get owned by really large talented OL's.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

They didn't force feed Harry, Meyers wasn't doubled, and Cam actually did a decent job spreading the ball around. He failed to recognize blitz pickups and short hopped a bunch of passes, which has become common place for him. Harry had two balls thrown at his toes and one wide of him, he should have had 8 catches instead of 5. Byrd also had to try and scoop a ball off the turf which they lost on the Texan's challenge.

Cam is making incremental improvements, seeing the field a little better, using consistently better mechanics in the pocket, spreading the ball around, taking the check down... I've pivoted from him being out of the league by next season, to he would make a good bridge guy for a rookie if he continues to play at this level. Our version of Ryan Fitzpatrick.

He's not great, but it's what I thought he could be before the season began. Matt Cassel with better running, a game manager with legs. The WR's are getting a chance to make plays at least, a vast improvement from earlier in the year. It is a developmental season, a bridge year. Enjoy the process.

8 targets to Harry is force feeding him. At the expense of Meyers who only had 3 targets. HUGE mistake putting Harry above Meyers in the game plan. And Meyers is Cam's safety valve on blitzes. Taken out because of NKeal.

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[FCB02062]

Pretty clear that bill the coach is trying to justify bill the GM's drafting of useless NKeal Harry... He'll go down as the biggest draft bust of the bill the GM era

 

[TheRainMaker]

true 4/3 DE like Trey Flowers who is talented

You might get your wish when Patricia is fired and Flowers is a cap casualty. I see him taking the walk of shame back to the Pats.

Update: I see him joining Flores in Miami.

 

[Wozzy]

8 targets to Harry is force feeding him. At the expense of Meyers who only had 3 targets. HUGE mistake putting Harry above Meyers in the game plan. And Meyers is Cam's safety valve on blitzes. Taken out because of NKeal.

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Harry was open, Byrd was open... throw the ball to the open man.

Why were they "force feeding" Harry but not Byrd? Byrd was playing in Jakobi's breakout game two weeks ago also.

You'd think fans would be happy Cam was improving ever so slightly?

Harry has become a dog whistle to the negative types. It's absurd.

Cams better, he's simply not that good.

 

[Wozzy]

You might get your wish when Patricia is fired and Flowers is a cap casualty. I see him taking the walk of shame back to the Pats.

Lol, well I would have left for that contract also. However shameful...

 

[Kontradiction]

They WR's have been open all season, the ability to get them the ball has been the issue.

No, they haven’t. I have to wonder WTF you’re watching at this point. If the WRs have been open all season, they wouldn’t have had their first TD as a crew 11 weeks into the season. There’s a reason why you had to post one of your own Tweets and say “see!? He’s open” when the image itself clearly shows Cam moving on from him in his progression on top of the rush already getting home

Byrd should have close to double digit TD's at this point. Cam was horrible, he is slowly getting respectable but will never be the long term answer. If we're lucky he'll develop into the Ryan Fitzpatrick bridge to the next high draft pick rookie QB.

Byrd should have double digit touchdowns this season based on... what... exactly? Hopes and dreams? He’s a supposed burner who has been running quick hitches and comeback routes. Know why that’s happening? Here’s a hint - it’s not because McDaniels suddenly went full re.tard. It is because he can’t beat his man on the deeper routes. That is until he ran into one of the worst defenses in the league today. Hell, Belichick himself even admitted the team is depleted of talent and that they have to play a lot of young guys as a result. You don’t think he means the WRs as well? I don’t disagree with your last sentence, though

They had a run stuffer in Beau Allen, he got hurt. They found another in Carl Davis, I'll have to look at the snap counts but it appeared like he didn't play much at all today. These guys are Nose Tackles, you'd like at least one like Shelton on the roster for run heavy teams like Baltimore.

Allen is not the answer. He’s ideally a 3-tech, one-gapping DT. Davis isn’t that guy either although I suspect he will help. Guys like that aren’t ideal to stop the Baltimores of the world because they leave wide open running lanes. We need a Wilfork-type. Someone with sand in his ass that can line up as the zero, swallow up multiple blockers, clog the A-gap, and let a guy like Hightower roam clean up the trash. That guy will make a QB like Lamar have to consistently try to hit the edge because there isn’t any real estate up the gut. If you want further proof of that, watch Shelton against Baltimore last year. He was consistently getting blown off the ball, usually by a single blocker as Jackson ran for two scores and Ingram averaged over 7 YPC and eclipsed 100 yards. I don’t disagree that you need these types too, though. But a Shelton type 3-tech is not the bigger need. A true traditional 0-tech NT is what this team needs the most on D, and it’s the second biggest need behind QB.

...and a true 4/3 DE like Trey Flowers who is talented. Guy is like Mike Wright, a good lunch pail guy.

Cowart, Adam Butler, Wise... these guys are jags. Butler and Wise can rush the passer some, but aren't good against the run, they're front runners who make plays with a lead. They get owned by really large talented OL's.

I see nothing wrong here.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Harry was open, Byrd was open... throw the ball to the open man.

Why were they "force feeding" Harry but not Byrd? Byrd was playing in Jakobi's breakout game two weeks ago also.

You'd think fans would be happy Cam was improving ever so slightly?

Harry has become a dog whistle to the negative types. It's absurd.

Cams better, he's simply not that good.

Byrd and Meyers were 9/9 today. Harry still only catches half what's thrown to him and for crap yardage. So yes this is not a case of getting the open man. McD keeps force feeding plays for Harry making the entire offense worse. It's a twisted thing where Harry and Sony are his picks so he's forcing crap plays here. If we took what the defense gave, the Texans have the league's worst run defense giving up 170 yards a game. But Harris only ran 11 times ?? Terrible game plan by McDaniels

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[Wozzy]

No, they haven’t. I have to wonder WTF you’re watching at this point. If the WRs have been open all season, they wouldn’t have had their first TD as a crew 11 weeks into the season. There’s a reason why you had to post one of your own Tweets and say “see!? He’s open” when the image itself clearly shows Cam moving on from him in his progression on top of the rush already getting home


Byrd should have double digit touchdowns this season based on... what... exactly? Hopes and dreams? He’s a supposed burner who has been running quick hitches and comeback routes. Know why that’s happening? Here’s a hint - it’s not because McDaniels suddenly went full re.tard. It is because he can’t beat his man on the deeper routes. That is until he ran into one of the worst defenses in the league today. Hell, Belichick himself even admitted the team is depleted of talent and that they have to play a lot of young guys as a result. You don’t think he means the WRs as well? I don’t disagree with your last sentence, though



Allen is not the answer. He’s ideally a 3-tech, one-gapping DT. Davis isn’t that guy either although I suspect he will help. Guys like that aren’t ideal to stop the Baltimores of the world because they leave wide open running lanes. We need a Wilfork-type. Someone with sand in his ass that can line up as the zero, swallow up multiple blockers, clog the A-gap, and let a guy like Hightower roam clean up the trash. That guy will make a QB like Lamar have to consistently try to hit the edge because there isn’t any real estate up the gut. If you want further proof of that, watch Shelton against Baltimore last year. He was consistently getting blown off the ball, usually by a single blocker as Jackson ran for two scores and Ingram averaged over 7 YPC and eclipsed 100 yards. I don’t disagree that you need these types too, though. But a Shelton type 3-tech is not the bigger need. A true traditional 0-tech NT is what this team needs the most on D, and it’s the second biggest need behind QB.



I see nothing wrong here.

Harry had a TD back against the Chiefs, good route and catch with plenty of separation, course it was Stidham throwing at that point and not Cam. Also I didn't post one of "my tweets" as I don't have a Twitter account, I posed a breakdown tweet by Matt Chatham and another video by Dan Orlovsky... the response by the misanthropes was "Chatham is a homer," as if that makes video evidence less credible. WR's have been open all year. Funny how Cam said he sucked, literally said he was sick of sucking, said he was missing wide open receivers, making the wrong reads, needed to play better... but when a poster says it here contradicting the Negative Nancy's, it's "wrong" Cam says he sucked, but you know better I guess?

Byrd more than any receiver has been wide open too many times to count with nothing but green grass ahead of him. Patriots QB's couldn't throw it in the ocean.

Beau Allen and Carl Davis are nose tackles, they obviously aren't as talented as Wilfork but play the same position. Vince could play anywhere along the line, but these guys are also pretty talented. We'll have to wait a year to see Allen play. Davis has helped, but like I said I didn't see him playing too much tonight. The defense tonight was a failure in both scheme and talent. They rushed 3-4 and played zones, I guess hoping Watson would screw up. All around poor game plan and execution.

 

[Wozzy]

Byrd and Meyers were 9/9 today. Harry still only catches half what's thrown to him and for crap yardage. So yes this is not a case of getting the open man. McD keeps force feeding plays for Harry making the entire offense worse. It's a twisted thing where Harry and Sony are his picks so he's forcing crap plays here. If we took what the defense gave, the Texans have the league's worst run defense giving up 170 yards a game. But Harris only ran 11 times ?? Terrible game plan by McDaniels

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At least two of the three targets Harry didn't catch tonight were uncatchable. Two were thrown into the dirt at his feet, the game announcer slammed Cam on one because Harry was so wide open and it could have been a huge gain, the other was also an easy completion. The third was wide and outside, he possibly could have gotten it, I'll have to see the replay.

We're 42 pages in on the "Harry sucks" thread... you guys going out of your way to look for something to complain about. To quote a fellow poster "he’s played 14 games. He has 31 catches. In Michael Irvin’s first 14 games he had 32. Jerry Rice had 37, had about a dozen drops too."

And no I'm not comparing him to Rice, Irvin or anyone else, just pointing out how shortsighted fans can be. Julian Edelman was no good and injury prone for the first four years of his career according to the "no talent" moaners... good thing they didn't give up on him.

 

[Toofy]

At least two of the three targets Harry didn't catch tonight were uncatchable. Two were thrown into the dirt at his feet, the game announcer slammed Cam on one because Harry was so wide open and it could have been a huge gain, the other was also an easy completion. The third was wide and outside, he possibly could have gotten it, I'll have to see the replay.

We're 42 pages in on the "Harry sucks" thread... you guys going out of your way to look for something to complain about. To quote a fellow poster "he’s played 14 games. He has 31 catches. In Michael Irvin’s first 14 games he had 32. Jerry Rice had 37, had about a dozen drops too."

And no I'm not comparing him to Rice, Irvin or anyone else, just pointing out how shortsighted fans can be. Julian Edelman was no good and injury prone for the first four years of his career according to the "no talent" moaners... good thing they didn't give up on him.

I would tend to agree, its just that most if us are expecting elite athleticism from a first rounder which is sadly not there..

It's not Harry's fault that he got drafted in first round, and he's not fortunate that he has cam throwing to him.. i think he would strive with a passer who throws over the shoulder passes like wilson. Sadly we don't have those type of passers.

It's in the teams interest that harry develops into a decent wr 2 or 3. We cannot afford to have so many draft misses. So let's hope harry works out..

 

[hornetfb85]

Little off topic here, but Harry looks huge out there at WR. Tell him to put on 15-20 pounds and give him a TE playbook in the offseason.

 

[captain stone]

Agreed.

Doesn't excuse the Harry pick, but it is also hard to see how anyone thought Inglewood Brown was better than AJ. And he went even higher than Harry in the draft. We are not the only NFL team that struggles to draft quality NFL receivers.

Yeah I would not have taken Inglewood ahead of AJ or DK or Deebo or McLaurin either.

 

[Zuma]

Little off topic here, but Harry looks huge out there at WR. Tell him to put on 15-20 pounds and give him a TE playbook in the offseason.

I agree but I don't think he needs to put on much more weight to be a move TE. He benched 225lb 27 times at the combine...he's a very strong dude...he just needs to find his role which IMO is TE.

 

[Toofy]

I agree but I don't think he needs to put on much more weight to be a move TE. He benched 225lb 27 times at the combine...he's a very strong dude...he just needs to find his role which IMO is TE.

But the question is with so much injuries and playing soft , can he handle the job of a tight end?

Logically a move to TE makes most sense, just not sure if harry has it in him to make the leap. Besides tight ends need to be more cerebral...

 

[captain stone]

Pretty clear that bill the coach is trying to justify bill the GM's drafting of useless NKeal Harry... He'll go down as the biggest draft bust of the bill the GM era.

Certainly one of them, that's for sure...He has competition...

 

[DropKickFlutie]

It's not Bill. It's McDaniels who F'd up getting Harry and Sony. So he forces Harry into the offensive game plan even though Harry sucks.

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[203Pat]

Since so many people like these goofy little charts from Twitter to confirm what anyone who watches the game already knows.

 

[FCB02062]

Are Patsfans people still defending the drafting of Harry?

 

[IllegalContact]

Harry kinda sucks even though he is awesome.........I am starting to feel like he's going to completely suck and I will forget who he is by mid 2021