PATRIOTS NEWS NFL Appeal oral arguments thread

[XLIX]

Sorry to butt in, but do you seriously NOT believe that we would have lost picks and Brady suspended in that case? As written, the Wells report exonerated the team. And the punishment was based to a significant degree on factors outside the actual deflation in the game (off-season "deflator" text messages, post-game communications, destroyed cell-phones, etc.)

AndyJohnson, for some reason totally contrary to all logic and intelligence, trusts the "integrity" and fairness of sleazebag Roger Goodell, and has actively asked us to give Goodell the benefit of the doubt in other situations.

That's really all that needs to be said.

 

[gobesmug]

I don't get what you guys are arguing about. Wells was hired purely to find guilt with the NEP.

It's obvious his main target was BB, and after that proved pointless, he proceeded to harass the NEP employees until Kraft stopped it, all as a ploy to assign the term uncooperative.

He then stitched together a serious of circumstantial texts and led Brady to believe he was only after the truth and that his cell phone didn't matter. Only to use the cell phone issue as evidence of being uncooperative and therefore untrustworthy as a witness.

It's semantics to argue that if wells acted honestly and independently that the NFL still would have penalized tlBrady and the patriots. For all you know Wells initially did find Brady and the Patriots completely innocent in his initial notes and only altered his opinion after persuasion from Goodel.

 

[Joker]

I posted the translation and then you posted the definition (as if that somehow made my translation wrong).

What part of that are you not understanding? I am trying to help you here because you are obviously very, very confused.

the part where it said an impartial adviser in the definition, which is directly applicable to YOUR error in attacking DaB...either you are a sub-mongoloid or you're pathologically disturbed...or both.

 

[XLIX]

the part where it said an impartial adviser in the definition, which is directly applicable to YOUR error in attacking DaB...either you are a sub-mongoloid or you're pathologically disturbed...or both.

You're obviously not intelligent enough to have the first clue what I said and what I meant.

You're obviously not intelligent enough to understand the difference between a "translation" and a "definition".

And you're obviously not smart enough to realize that you are not contradicting a single thing I've written but you've decided to be an argumentative asshat anyway.

Either you're an extreme moron or you're an extreme moron. Pick one, asshat.

 

[Joker]

awwwww...your punkazzed feewings are hurt...here



and then schedule an appointment with your gyno, Miss Moronica

 

[XLIX]

It's semantics to argue that if wells acted honestly and independently that the NFL still would have penalized tlBrady and the patriots. For all you know Wells initially did find Brady and the Patriots completely innocent in his initial notes and only altered his opinion after persuasion from Goodel.

I once read an interesting theory that suggested that Wells actually toned it down from what the league really wanted. I don't buy the theory, but there is a little bit of evidence supporting it. Just think about how Goodell drew conclusions about Brady's additional guilt that went beyond what was in the Wells Report.

It makes one wonder if that piece of **** Goodell wanted Wells to include all that stuff and more in his "independent" report.

 

[neuronet]

I was going to guess unemployed asshats.

Judge, prosecutors on death penalty cases, public defenders, people who are involved in Innocence Project, even tax or family attorneys. All successful. So, no.

You don't have to be a scumbag and sell out your principles. One defended Manson, and even that I do not put in the same league. At least criminal defense lawyers have a moral reason to do what they do.

Wells is just a whore, and people justifying it are caught up in the whore lifestyle and backward moral logic. If you want to defend whores, be my guest, but don't expect me to jump in with you just because a lot of these bottom-feeding JD's with the surplus of degrees pumped out these days would do anything for a job after they eke out a "pass" on the bar. There are plenty of lawyers who are not whores who make an excellent living; in fact I don't associate with the whores because they also are douchebags in real life. That's how they are able to rationalize being whores.

 

[realtime]

Judge, prosecutors on death penalty cases, public defenders, people who are involved in Innocence Project, even tax or family attorneys. All successful. So, no.

You don't have to be a scumbag and sell out your principles. One defended Manson, and even that I do not put in the same league. At least criminal defense lawyers have a moral reason to do what they do.

Wells is just a whore, and people justifying it are caught up in the whore lifestyle and backward moral logic. If you want to defend whores, be my guest, but don't expect me to jump in with you just because a lot of these bottom-feeding JD's with the surplus of degrees pumped out these days would do anything for a job after they eke out a "pass" on the bar. There are plenty of lawyers who are not whores who make an excellent living; in fact I don't associate with the whores because they also are douchebags in real life. That's how they are able to rationalize being whores.

Not sure how someone with a JD/MBA from Harvard is a bottom feeding JD who eked out a pass on the bar, but OK.

If you do well in law school and go to work in a law firm named after dead people, you -- heaven forbid -- occasionally end up representing the NFL or other corporate clients that may be morally objectionable, take positions that you disagree with personally, etc. Thousands upon thousands of people do this -- some are d-bags, some are truly good people, some are somewhere in between.

If going into public service is what you want to do with a law degree, then that's terrific. But all the vitriol that applies to just about every Big Law lawyer, including those not named Wells, just sounds like the song and dance one hears from lawyers who truly are bottom feeding JD's that couldn't get a high paying legal job even if they wanted to. To me that always sounded more like sour grapes and less like taking the moral high ground.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I don't get what you guys are arguing about. Wells was hired purely to find guilt with the NEP.

It's obvious his main target was BB, and after that proved pointless, he proceeded to harass the NEP employees until Kraft stopped it, all as a ploy to assign the term uncooperative.

He then stitched together a serious of circumstantial texts and led Brady to believe he was only after the truth and that his cell phone didn't matter. Only to use the cell phone issue as evidence of being uncooperative and therefore untrustworthy as a witness.

It's semantics to argue that if wells acted honestly and independently that the NFL still would have penalized tlBrady and the patriots. For all you know Wells initially did find Brady and the Patriots completely innocent in his initial notes and only altered his opinion after persuasion from Goodel.

Don't forget Pash's role in the report, we can only guess since the NFL won't allow him to be questioned, I'd like to see Berman get him under oath.

 

[Ring 6]

AndyJohnson, for some reason totally contrary to all logic and intelligence, trusts the "integrity" and fairness of sleazebag Roger Goodell, and has actively asked us to give Goodell the benefit of the doubt in other situations.

That's really all that needs to be said.

Why do you insist on lying?

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry to butt in, but do you seriously NOT believe that we would have lost picks and Brady suspended in that case? As written, the Wells report exonerated the team. And the punishment was based to a significant degree on factors outside the actual deflation in the game (off-season "deflator" text messages, post-game communications, destroyed cell-phones, etc.)

I don't understand how anyone thinks the patriots would have been punished for a report that found them innocent. By the way the report did not exonerate the team it said that BB and Kraft were not involved but team employees were.

I understand the viewpoint that wells was hired with a mission to find guilt. I understand the viewpoint that goodell is scum. I am sure goodell was out to get the patriots.
What I am saying is that if the investigation were above board he wouldn't have been able to. For those saying he would have turned innocence into punishment any way why did he wait 8 years after camera placement gate? If he could have made up a reason without any guilt he would have done it already.

The point here that was being discussed was defending wells. Whether you believe he was only hired to do so or not does not excuse wells falsifying an investigation and creating a report that was a piece of crap and the basis for the punishment that couldn't have otherwise happened.
Goodell is scumbag #1 but wells cooked the evidence to give him the ability to screw the patriots and is equally to blame.

 

[IllegalContact]

I don't understand how anyone thinks the patriots would have been punished for a report that found them innocent. By the way the report did not exonerate the team it said that BB and Kraft were not involved but team employees were.

I understand the viewpoint that wells was hired with a mission to find guilt. I understand the viewpoint that goodell is scum. I am sure goodell was out to get the patriots.
What I am saying is that if the investigation were above board he wouldn't have been able to. For those saying he would have turned innocence into punishment any way why did he wait 8 years after camera placement gate? If he could have made up a reason without any guilt he would have done it already.

The point here that was being discussed was defending wells. Whether you believe he was only hired to do so or not does not excuse wells falsifying an investigation and creating a report that was a piece of crap and the basis for the punishment that couldn't have otherwise happened.
Goodell is scumbag #1 but wells cooked the evidence to give him the ability to screw the patriots and is equally to blame.

Wells did his job......and that fact doesn't change because you don't like the result

 

[realtime]

I don't understand how anyone thinks the patriots would have been punished for a report that found them innocent. By the way the report did not exonerate the team it said that BB and Kraft were not involved but team employees were.

I understand the viewpoint that wells was hired with a mission to find guilt. I understand the viewpoint that goodell is scum. I am sure goodell was out to get the patriots.
What I am saying is that if the investigation were above board he wouldn't have been able to. For those saying he would have turned innocence into punishment any way why did he wait 8 years after camera placement gate? If he could have made up a reason without any guilt he would have done it already.

The point here that was being discussed was defending wells. Whether you believe he was only hired to do so or not does not excuse wells falsifying an investigation and creating a report that was a piece of crap and the basis for the punishment that couldn't have otherwise happened.
Goodell is scumbag #1 but wells cooked the evidence to give him the ability to screw the patriots and is equally to blame.

Just so I can better understand where you are coming from, I have the following questions:

1. What is the basis for the league taking draft picks away from the team based on the Wells report as written? The report specifically exonerated ownership, the entire coaching staff and the head equipment manager.

2. Let's say the Wells report were to conclude with 100% certainty that the balls in the AFCC were deflated by operation of the IGL and not because of any tampering. What happens to the following sections of the report? Are you saying that they would have just been omitted? Or are you saying that the league would have ignored them (and McNally going into the bathroom with the balls during the game) given that the deflation could be explained entirely by the IGL?

D. COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN JASTREMSKI AND MCNALLY PRIOR TO THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME

McNally Labels Himself the Deflator

Communications About Inflation and Deflation

Brady?s Dissatisfaction with Game Balls During the Jets Game

The “Alternate” Explanation Offered by Jastremski and McNally for the October 17 Messages

Additional Deflation Reference by McNally

McNally Requests and Receives Items Autographed by Brady, Sneakers and Apparel

Items of Value Received by Jastremski from Brady

 

[Ring 6]

Just so I can better understand where you are coming from, I have the following questions:

1. What is the basis for the league taking draft picks away from the team based on the Wells report as written? The report specifically exonerated ownership, the entire coaching staff and the head equipment manager.

2. Let's say the Wells report were to conclude with 100% certainty that the balls in the AFCC were deflated by operation of the IGL and not because of any tampering. What happens to the following sections of the report? Are you saying that they would have just been omitted? Or are you saying that the league would have ignored them (and McNally going into the bathroom with the balls during the game) given that the deflation could be explained entirely by the IGL?

D. COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN JASTREMSKI AND MCNALLY PRIOR TO THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME

McNally Labels Himself the Deflator

Communications About Inflation and Deflation

Brady?s Dissatisfaction with Game Balls During the Jets Game

The “Alternate” Explanation Offered by Jastremski and McNally for the October 17 Messages

Additional Deflation Reference by McNally

McNally Requests and Receives Items Autographed by Brady, Sneakers and Apparel

Items of Value Received by Jastremski from Brady

1. The penalties for the team were because the wells report concluded it was more likely than not that the patriots deflated the footballs. They did not exonerate the team they exonerated members as not being involved. The team was held responsible for its emoloyees actions.
2. If they used science correctly and proved all deflation was due to weather those other items would be meaningless. You can't take circumstantial evidence to prove a crime after you have proven the crime never occurred.

 

[Nehalem]

1. The penalties for the team were because the wells report concluded it was more likely than not that the patriots deflated the footballs. They did not exonerate the team they exonerated members as not being involved. The team was held responsible for its emoloyees actions.
2. If they used science correctly and proved all deflation was due to weather those other items would be meaningless. You can't take circumstantial evidence to prove a crime after you have proven the crime never occurred.

“In accepting the findings of the report, we note that the report identified no evidence of wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing on the part of any member of the coaching staff, including Head Coach Bill Belichick, or by any Patriots’ staff member other than Mr. Jastremski and Mr. McNally, including head equipment manager Dave Schoenfeld. Similarly, the Wells report is clear that Patriots ownership and executives did not participate in any way in the misconduct, or have knowledge of the misconduct,” the NFL’s statement said.

Bill Belichick exonerated of wrongdoing on Deflategate

So basically according to the Wells Report 2 low level employees slightly deflated some footballs without the knowledge, of anyone else in the Patriots organization. Therefore lets level incredibly draconian and unprecedented penalties on the entire Patriots organization.

Clearly the point was to find an excuse to punish the Patriots.

So say the Wells Report had said all deflation was due to IGL. Goodell could have still penalized the Patriots for "lack of cooperation"(Brady destroyed his phone: note this excuse was used by Goodell in the appeal), or say the appearance of impropriety for allowing the footballs to get taken into the toilet.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

How do you know there have been no filings? It's not like the 2CA broadcasts these sorts of things..

Aren't filings a matter of public record. If so are they available to the public as a matter of course or is an FOI inquiry necessary? (sincere question. no agenda)

 

[IllegalContact]

So let me understand.
If wells truly acted as an independent investigator and hired a legitimate scientific organization to do the study and it found that weather was beyond the shadow of a doubt solely responsible for the deflation if the footballs and therefore the patriots did nothing wrong you still believe we would have lost picks and Brady would have been suspended?
seriously?

he was not supposed to act as a truly independent investigator because that's not what his client wanted and even then the most damning thing that wells could communicate was a 'more probable than not' on being 'generally aware'

you just enjoy lumping everyone together involved in an outcome and calling them 'bad' in a true 'fellowship of the miserable' fashion

LOL......get over it

 

[archstanton543]

"Therefore lets level incredibly draconian and unprecedented penalties on the entire Patriots organization."

The harsh punishment for the Pats because they were seen as "repeat offenders" because of Spygate which happened 7 years prior.

 

[Joker]

Ray Rice did THIS on camera, RECORDED FOREVER...ON CAMERA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Goodell suspended him for TWO games eventually after first denying he knew ANYTHING about it. Goodell suspended Brady for FOUR games for an "incident" THAT NEVER HAPPENED! Either Goodell is a shyt eating moron or Goodell is a common goddamned CRIMINAL. Or both. The rest of this bullshyt is nothing but mental masturbation.

 

[DaBruinz]

Aren't filings a matter of public record. If so are they available to the public as a matter of course or is an FOI inquiry necessary? (sincere question. no agenda)

People seem to be misconstruing my comments. When I said the 2CA doesn't broadcast these sorts of things, what I mean was that the 2CA isn't going to call a press conference and say "XYZ and RST have filed such and such in the Tom Brady case." That's not how things work.. They could care less about letting the public know that they received filings on the case.

And with free agency going on, it's not like all the local reporters aren't focused elsewhere.