NFL Appeal oral arguments thread

[Jackson 2]

I'm trying to convince myself of that but stuff like "the evidence is overwhelming that there was tampering" is a bit beyond the pale of "playing devil's advocate." Not to mention, it's ignorant and a great example of what legal argument/discourse is NOT suppose to be like.

Agreed and it's completely dismissive of the Ideal Gas Law. It makes me wonder exactly how much Chin and these other judges actually do their preparatory research.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

so far 2016 has turned out horribly:

1. broncos win super bowl
2. rise of trump
3. brady loses appeal?

 

[Ivan]

so far 2016 has turned out horribly:

1. broncos win super bowl
2. rise of trump
3. brady loses appeal?

Take it to the political forum.

 

[Mack Herron]

berman did the same thing - he said somthing like "where's the evidence of tampering?" during the hearings.

I don't see how asking for nonexistent evidence is remotely similar to stating the is "overwhelming."

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Looks like Kessler had his Wheaties this morning...

and the judges pi**ed in his Wheaties.....

 

[resdubwhite]

this is unbelievable.

on the day espn partially fessed up too.

 

[NashuaPats]

I wonder what teams these judges root for. What if Chin was a jets fan? Maybe if that is the case, he should recuse himself.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Honestly, this is what it might come down to. Some of the most intelligent, well educated, level headed people I know become crazy, irrational, and insanely stupid when anything Patriots or Tom Brady related comes up. I'm afraid we got lucky with Judge Berman and these three are biased New Yorkers.

 

[VectorPrime]

'Toward the end of Kessler’s oral argument, he stated that Goodell manufactured the issue of cell-phone destruction being something of greater import because Goodell knew that being “generally aware” wasn’t sufficient to discipline Brady to that extent.

Parker raised an eyebrow and said, “What’s the motivation here?”

“He spent $3 million on an investigation" and wanted to justify the time and effort spent, was Kessler’s reply in essence.

“Are you suggesting he was out to get Mr. Brady?” asked Parker.

“He was out to protect [the investigation],” countered Kessler.

Kessler ratcheted up at that point and pointed out that it was “embarrassing for the league” because it knew it didn’t have the goods on Brady and didn’t understand the Ideal Gas Law.

With that Katzmann raised a hand as if to say, “No Ideal Gas Law here.”

Kessler exclaimed: “I sense you're being influenced by your view of the facts!”

“We are being influenced by your briefs,” said Parker. '


This is a f.ucking disaster.

 

[Jlaff]

this is unbelievable.

on the day espn partially fessed up too.

Won't Chin feel like an idiot when he learns his evidentiary basis admitted it was wrong.

 

[JMC00]

I'm trying to convince myself of that but stuff like "the evidence is overwhelming that there was tampering" is a bit beyond the pale of "playing devil's advocate." Not to mention, it's ignorant and a great example of what legal argument/discourse is NOT suppose to be like.

Except they aren't ruling on that. They are ruling on Berman's decision which was not based on any opinion if Brady did or didn't do it. Chin may think he did it but if he concurs with Berman's ruling then that's the way he is going to rule.

-Inadequate notice
-Failure to allow Brady's counsel to interview Pash
-Denying Brady's counsel to view documents

is what Berman ruled on. Whether Brady did or didn't do it should not be a factor.

And it wouldn't surprise me if Chin anonymously received a page of the transcript from one of the hearings with Berman within the next few days that has the part when Berman point blanked asked the nfl's attorney what evidence they had of Brady being involved and the answers was "None"

 

[aluminum seats]

A SB win would make a much stronger case on the "nothing happened" argument. Oh ****, that Eagles game, muffed punt...

Do the Pats have to win every Super Bowl for eternity?

I actually forgot this was happening today until I came here. Sounds not great, but whatever. I don't feel like getting sucked in like last year. Whatever happens, happens. Plenty of judges are idiots too, people believe what they believe, whatever. Just end already.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Agreed and it's completely dismissive of the Ideal Gas Law. It makes me wonder exactly how much Chin and these other judges actually do their preparatory research.

I suspect their "preparatory research" was watching ESPN with a few other Jets season ticket holders.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

Seems like Burman was much more interested in learning all the facts of the case than maybe these judges are.
Even if truth of deflation isn't what is being sought in this, the fact that nobel winning scientists say science sides on 'nothing wrong done here', that logically leads one to then ask, why was exponent hired, and could the investigator have had a predetermined outcome, and why wouldn't a arbitrator -- if he was fair -- want to learn more facts before passing judgement.

 

[juny]

Except they aren't ruling on that. They are ruling on Berman's decision which was not based on any opinion if Brady did or didn't do it. Chin may think he did it but if he concurs with Berman's ruling then that's the way he is going to rule.

-Inadequate notice
-Failure to allow Brady's counsel to interview Pash
-Denying Brady's counsel to view documents

is what Berman ruled on. Whether Brady did or didn't do it should not be a factor.

And it wouldn't surprise me if Chin anonymously receiver a page of the transcript from one of the hearings with Berman within the next few days that has the part when Berman point blanked asked the nfl's attorney what evidence they had of Brady being involved and the answers was "None"

the thing that is puzzling to me is why little to no attention was given to berman's findings, rulings. it's like that first trial never existed.

 

[Ring 6]

'Toward the end of Kessler’s oral argument, he stated that Goodell manufactured the issue of cell-phone destruction being something of greater import because Goodell knew that being “generally aware” wasn’t sufficient to discipline Brady to that extent.

Parker raised an eyebrow and said, “What’s the motivation here?”

“He spent $3 million on an investigation" and wanted to justify the time and effort spent, was Kessler’s reply in essence.

“Are you suggesting he was out to get Mr. Brady?” asked Parker.

“He was out to protect [the investigation],” countered Kessler.

Kessler ratcheted up at that point and pointed out that it was “embarrassing for the league” because it knew it didn’t have the goods on Brady and didn’t understand the Ideal Gas Law.

With that Katzmann raised a hand as if to say, “No Ideal Gas Law here.”

Kessler exclaimed: “I sense you're being influenced by your view of the facts!”

“We are being influenced by your briefs,” said Parker. '


This is a f.ucking disaster.

Nothing wrong with this. The Ideal Gas Law was not within the scope of this hearing.

 

[Todd Bradley]

'Toward the end of Kessler’s oral argument, he stated that Goodell manufactured the issue of cell-phone destruction being something of greater import because Goodell knew that being “generally aware” wasn’t sufficient to discipline Brady to that extent.

Parker raised an eyebrow and said, “What’s the motivation here?”

“He spent $3 million on an investigation" and wanted to justify the time and effort spent, was Kessler’s reply in essence.

“Are you suggesting he was out to get Mr. Brady?” asked Parker.

“He was out to protect [the investigation],” countered Kessler.

Kessler ratcheted up at that point and pointed out that it was “embarrassing for the league” because it knew it didn’t have the goods on Brady and didn’t understand the Ideal Gas Law.

With that Katzmann raised a hand as if to say, “No Ideal Gas Law here.”

Kessler exclaimed: “I sense you're being influenced by your view of the facts!”

“We are being influenced by your briefs,” said Parker. '


This is a f.ucking disaster.

I don't see how any of this has anything to do with Berman's ruling...

Brady possibly being the captain of a serial deflation scheme has NOTHING to do with whether or not Goodell was a neutral arbitrator. The minute this case went to court, guilt or innocence was thrown out the door. It was about procedure.

So now, in Appeals court, it's strictly on whether or not the ruling of the procedure was correct or not. Brady's cellphone has ZERO to do with that.

Why was this even part of the hearing?

 

[the Patriot]

Unfortunately, even if the decision goes the correct way, all the bad guys have saved face. The NFL has saved face for pursuing things this far, the haters have saved face for calling the Pats cheaters, etc.

No, Goodell still lost. We all lost.

 

[Ring 6]

the thing that is puzzling to me is why little to no attention was given to berman's findings, rulings. it's like that first trial never existed.

The trial and the briefs submitted to this appeal are 99% of the case. This are simply questions the judges are asking to clarify the positions of both sides.
The case isn't decided on what was said in court today, in fact, what was said in court today means less than what is in Bermans trial transcripts.

Also, this hearing was about the loser (NFL) challenging that the ruling was wrong. It is incumbent upon the judges to explore how that could be, so it was expected that this would go tougher on Brady's side.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Except they aren't ruling on that. They are ruling on Berman's decision which was not based on any opinion if Brady did or didn't do it. Chin may think he did it but if he concurs with Berman's ruling then that's the way he is going to rule.

-Inadequate notice
-Failure to allow Brady's counsel to interview Pash
-Denying Brady's counsel to view documents

is what Berman ruled on. Whether Brady did or didn't do it should not be a factor.

And it wouldn't surprise me if Chin anonymously received a page of the transcript from one of the hearings with Berman within the next few days that has the part when Berman point blanked asked the nfl's attorney what evidence they had of Brady being involved and the answers was "None"

OK, so why mention it at all? Possibilities- 1. He didn't review the briefs/records and doesn't know what he's talking about; 2. grandstanding for the NY crowd; 3. Bias; 4. NY fan who doesn't mind abusing a position of authority to cheap shot Brady.

I don't like it and can't see it as a positive.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't see how any of this has anything to do with Berman's ruling...

Brady possibly being the captain of a serial deflation scheme has NOTHING to do with whether or not Goodell was a neutral arbitrator. The minute this case went to court, guilt or innocence was thrown out the door. It was about procedure.

So now, in Appeals court, it's strictly on whether or not the ruling of the procedure was correct or not. Brady's cellphone has ZERO to do with that.

Why was this even part of the hearing?

It has everything to do with it, because it is about the bias of the arbiter.