Newton vs Stidham: Who wins the QB Battle? (poll)

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

Based upon your posting history I will consider that confirmation I am correct.

“The biggest reason for him falling apart in the second half of 18 is because his running game threat was severely diminished and he was stuck miscast as a pocket passer.”

This is one of many from that post that is woefully inaccurate. The second half of 2018 Cam played through his throwing shoulder damn near falling off. It had nothing to do with his running ability.

If you want proof, watch the All or Nothing series on Prime that documented the entire 2018 Panthers season. It’s really not hard to just keep quiet instead of making baseless statements.

 

[JackBauer187]

Based upon your posting history I will consider that confirmation I am correct.

You mention “tape”. I gave you an open invitation to prove what you said about him never being an effective pocket passer. You refused. I asked for any number at all regarding throws from the pocket. You showed none.

What would have been an acceptable % of his throws from the pocket, in 2015(since we know stats were good) to consider him successful. 70-75%? You brought up tape. Let’s do this and find out.

 

[Brewskies]

You think he is the second coming of Joe Montana and I don’t. I just don’t think that he is that good.

we’ll see in a month.

No need to call me a racist.

Ok I missed it. Where did "luuked" call you a racist?

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Edit: double post. Sorry

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Ok I missed it. Where did "luuked" call you a racist?

You clearly have some bias either because of his eccentricity or maybe because of other reasons.

He was implying that the reason I don’t think Cam is a top 10 QB is based on what he wears and the « other reasons ». that he highlighted in his original post, I must add.

I found that pretty disrespectful

 

[Brewskies]

Lots of Pats fans with different opinions of Newton vs. Stidham. Some Pats fans sound as if they think Newton is a dog at QB.

The way I look at it, as a Pats fan, I think it is excellent that these opinions are about our two QBs. Yeah, they both are with the Pats.

I want them to be successful. I want them to compete for the job of starting QB and keep fighting for it every day.

Some assumptions have to be made. So assuming Newton is 100% healthy, I want him to be the starting QB. I have 100% trust in Bill Belichick. He got Newton to allow Stidham to learn some more before throwing him into the lion's den. If, for some reason, BB wants Stidham to start, then so be, I support that decision. What do I know what is going on in BB's mind?


So as of now, I don't think there will be an NFL season, but if I am wrong, the Pats in me want Newton to start and Stidham to watch.

Hell, I remember and was there at every game, when the Pats alternated QBs every other play.

Go Pats

 

[Brewskies]

He was implying that the reason I don’t think Cam is a top 10 QB is based on what he wears and the « other reasons ». that he highlighted in his original post, I must add.

I found that pretty disrespectful

Sorry, I didn't read it that way. He was pushing back at you, I hope. Don't be so sensitive. BTW welcome to this forum.

 

[Joker]

"YOU IMPLIED!!!!!!!....off with his head!"...never a dull moment here in bruised opinionland...

 

[Ring 6]

“The biggest reason for him falling apart in the second half of 18 is because his running game threat was severely diminished and he was stuck miscast as a pocket passer.”

This is one of many from that post that is woefully inaccurate. The second half of 2018 Cam played through his throwing shoulder damn near falling off. It had nothing to do with his running ability.

If you want proof, watch the All or Nothing series on Prime that documented the entire 2018 Panthers season. It’s really not hard to just keep quiet instead of making baseless statements.

You should take your own advise. The fallout from the injury was that he cut his running in half.
1st 8 games 68.49% complete 236 pass yard per game. 15 tds 4 ints
Last 6 68.75% complete 250 pass yards per game 9 td 9 int
After the injury he stopped running. From 9.2 rushes to 4.7
His game changed because the running game was severely limited, the ints grew and the team went 0-6.

 

[Ring 6]

You mention “tape”. I gave you an open invitation to prove what you said about him never being an effective pocket passer. You refused. I asked for any number at all regarding throws from the pocket. You showed none.

What would have been an acceptable % of his throws from the pocket, in 2015(since we know stats were good) to consider him successful. 70-75%? You brought up tape. Let’s do this and find out.

I know what’s on the tape I don’t have to post it here to teach you, go look.
Not sure what you mean by acceptable percentage. I am saying he is not an effective pocket passer. His passing numbers to begin with are mediocre at best and anyone who knows anything about football understands passing numbers are aided by the ability to run.
He’s been a mediocre passer his entire career. That’s a fact. Eliminate the running from his game and the best he is, is a mediocre passer and with the threat of run eliminated and the plays he created by escaping the rush gone, they are even worse.

The bottom line on Newton’s career so far is that he has been a mediocre passer and great runner. Those running skills have helped his mediocre passing game elevate the offense to pretty much an overall average one, and produced 3 winning seasons in 8.
We aren’t talking about a sterling indisputable record of success here, we are talking about very average results on the scale of starting NFL QBs and thank his for 2015 or the numbers would be below average.

 

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

You should take your own advise. The fallout from the injury was that he cut his running in half.
1st 8 games 68.49% complete 236 pass yard per game. 15 tds 4 ints
Last 6 68.75% complete 250 pass yards per game 9 td 9 int
After the injury he stopped running. From 9.2 rushes to 4.7
His game changed because the running game was severely limited, the ints grew and the team went 0-6.

Every team they played sold out 100% to stop the run, because it was obvious Newton’s throwing shoulder was severely injured. Ron Rivera cowardly continued to push Cam out there in an attempt to save his own job, and Cam was too much of a “warrior” to bench himself.

Looking at the second half of 2018 as proof that Cam isn’t a pocket QB is comedy.

 

[Ring 6]

I will leave this here for all those pimping Newton as an accomplished good pocket passer.

Here is the other post I referred to in my response to you



Here are some numbers on Newton. From 2011 to now newton has thrown 3980 passes.
The following is a list of the other 12 QBs who have thrown 3500 or more.
Brady
Brees
Ryan
Ben
Rivers
Rogers
Wilson
Stafford
Dalton
Eli
Flacco
Fitz

here is where newton ranks among them.
completion %. Last of 13
Pass yards 12 of 13 (only ahead of fitz)
Ypa 9 of 13 (Eli, fitz, Dalton, Flacco)
Td passes. 11 of 13 (fitz and Flacco)
Td % 9 of 13 (fitz dalton Flacco Eli)
Int. 7 of 13 (
Int % 10 of 13 (rivers, Eli, fitz)
Rating 11 of 13 ( fitz and Flacco )

That is where he stacks up as a passer against QBs who have started or mostly started since he came into the league.

We can also look at a different time period. Let’s use last 5 years for all qbs throwing 2000 or more passes

the list includes in addition to newton
Brees
Wilson
Brady
Cousins
Ryan
Rodgers
Prescott
Stafford
Ben
Rivers
Carr
Wentz
Dalton
Manning, Eli
Winston
Bottles
Flacco


Newton is 16/18 on qb rating (bortles, Flacco) meaning QBs such as Winston, Carr, Eli and dalton we’re higher

newton is 17/18 in completion % beating out bortles 59.65 to 59.38

newton is 14 in td passes 8 in td pass %
He is 12th best in ints (I.e 11 threw fewer and 6 threw more) and 15th in int % (Ben bortles Winston)
He is 16th in passing yards out of 18 (Flacco wentz) and 13th in ypa
These are his prime years. I purposely started with his mvp season to make it look better.

He is in the bottom 1/4 of all QBs who were primary starters for most of that time period in virtually every passing stat.


Let’s hope he can still run because those that think he is going to come here and be an effective pocket passer are going to be very disappointed.

 

[Ring 6]

Every team they played sold out 100% to stop the run, because it was obvious Newton’s throwing shoulder was severely injured. Ron Rivera cowardly continued to push Cam out there in an attempt to save his own job, and Cam was too much of a “warrior” to bench himself.

Looking at the second half of 2018 as proof that Cam isn’t a pocket QB is comedy.

So now that the facts are out, the excuses start.

I’m looking at his entire career to say he isn’t a pocket passer.
If teams sold out to stop the run wouldn’t Newton’s passing numbers go through the roof if he was a pocket passer?

When you limit a running QBs ability to run rely more on his throwing and go 0-6 what does that tell you?


In fact in 19 he played 2 games ran twice and was 0-2 while throwing for over 280 yards.
So since the injury, when newton stopped running (he has run 3.4 times per game since then vs 7.5 for his career) he has lost all 8 games he has played.

 

[JackBauer187]

I know what’s on the tape I don’t have to post it here to teach you, go look.
Not sure what you mean by acceptable percentage. I am saying he is not an effective pocket passer. His passing numbers to begin with are mediocre at best and anyone who knows anything about football understands passing numbers are aided by the ability to run.
He’s been a mediocre passer his entire career. That’s a fact. Eliminate the running from his game and the best he is, is a mediocre passer and with the threat of run eliminated and the plays he created by escaping the rush gone, they are even worse.

The bottom line on Newton’s career so far is that he has been a mediocre passer and great runner. Those running skills have helped his mediocre passing game elevate the offense to pretty much an overall average one, and produced 3 winning seasons in 8.
We aren’t talking about a sterling indisputable record of success here, we are talking about very average results on the scale of starting NFL QBs and thank his for 2015 or the numbers would be below average.

What are you teaching? How to google? Without context, unless it supports your narrative. Because you sure haven’t gotten anything right. He won an MVP(throwing from the pocket) with the worst set of WRs of any MVP QB ever. I’d call that successful.

And now you manipulate the stats to act like the lack of rushing was a reason for decline. Not the FACT he couldn’t throw the ball 30 yds. But you keep bending those stats.

I’ve seen every game he’s played several times. You have seen 10% of them. Maybe. If I took a stat sheet and started telling you just how good or bad Tom Brady is, someone you have seen much more than me, how would you react? And you’re teaching me? Good luck with that.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Sorry, I didn't read it that way. He was pushing back at you, I hope. Don't be so sensitive. BTW welcome to this forum.

no worries. I took it maybe a little too much to myself.

thanks, I’m glad to be part of this community

 

[Ring 6]

Here is another newton fact. When he runs 8 or more times in a game he is 36-14-1. When he runs less than 8 times he is 32-42.

 

[Ring 6]

no worries. I took it maybe a little too much to myself.

thanks, I’m glad to be part of this community

No, he was calling you racist.

 

[Ring 6]

What are you teaching? How to google? Without context, unless it supports your narrative. Because you sure haven’t gotten anything right. He won an MVP(throwing from the pocket) with the worst set of WRs of any MVP QB ever. I’d call that successful.

And now you manipulate the stats to act like the lack of rushing was a reason for decline. Not the FACT he couldn’t throw the ball 30 yds. But you keep bending those stats.

I’ve seen every game he’s played several times. You have seen 10% of them. Maybe. If I took a stat sheet and started telling you just how good or bad Tom Brady is, someone you have seen much more than me, how would you react? And you’re teaching me? Good luck with that.

I can’t help that you are biased and don’t understand his to evaluate players.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

So now that the facts are out, the excuses start.

I’m looking at his entire career to say he isn’t a pocket passer.
If teams sold out to stop the run wouldn’t Newton’s passing numbers go through the roof if he was a pocket passer?

When you limit a running QBs ability to run rely more on his throwing and go 0-6 what does that tell you?


In fact in 19 he played 2 games ran twice and was 0-2 while throwing for over 280 yards.
So since the injury, when newton stopped running (he has run 3.4 times per game since then vs 7.5 for his career) he has lost all 8 games he has played.

I always felt that his wrs corps where vastly overrated including benjamin.

 

[JackBauer187]

So now that the facts are out, the excuses start.

I’m looking at his entire career to say he isn’t a pocket passer.
If teams sold out to stop the run wouldn’t Newton’s passing numbers go through the roof if he was a pocket passer?

When you limit a running QBs ability to run rely more on his throwing and go 0-6 what does that tell you?


In fact in 19 he played 2 games ran twice and was 0-2 while throwing for over 280 yards.
So since the injury, when newton stopped running (he has run 3.4 times per game since then vs 7.5 for his career) he has lost all 8 games he has played.

And what number, in all that, defines anything he did specifically from the pocket. That is the whole point. And he was supposed to run(or throw) with a busted up shoulder in 2018 or a lisfranc injury last year.

For a scenario that is a hypothetical that won’t happen. He gets hurt, BB will pull him quick. If he doesn’t, he will succeed. You act like Cam has been running a college offense for 8 years?