Newton vs Stidham: Who wins the QB Battle? (poll)

[JackBauer187]

I can’t help that you are biased and don’t understand his to evaluate players.

My bad. I thought you had to actually see a player to evaluate them. I could get a child to google what you know in a minute. You have refused, twice to even think about using any “tape” to prove your point. I forgot more about football than you ever will know.

 

[Ring 6]

What are you teaching? How to google? Without context, unless it supports your narrative. Because you sure haven’t gotten anything right. He won an MVP(throwing from the pocket) with the worst set of WRs of any MVP QB ever. I’d call that successful.

And now you manipulate the stats to act like the lack of rushing was a reason for decline. Not the FACT he couldn’t throw the ball 30 yds. But you keep bending those stats.

I’ve seen every game he’s played several times. You have seen 10% of them. Maybe. If I took a stat sheet and started telling you just how good or bad Tom Brady is, someone you have seen much more than me, how would you react? And you’re teaching me? Good luck with that.

When he won the mvp he had the 2nd most rushing attempts by a QB in NFL history. How is that a “pocket passer”.

Before Lamar Jackson cane along to have the 2 highest seasons of rush attempts by a qb, Newton had 4 of the 5 highest rushing attempt seasons ever by a qb with only Bobby Douglass having a couple more one season.
Newton has 4 seasons with more rushes than Michael Vick, Randall Cunningham or Colin krapernick ever had. Yeah pocket passer.

 

[Ring 6]

My bad. I thought you had to actually see a player to evaluate them. I could get a child to google what you know in a minute. You have refused, twice to even think about using any “tape” to prove your point. I forgot more about football than you ever will know.

I have watched all the tape I need to in order to form my opinion.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

And what number, in all that, defines anything he did specifically from the pocket. That is the whole point. And he was supposed to run(or throw) with a busted up shoulder in 2018 or a lisfranc injury last year.

For a scenario that is a hypothetical that won’t happen. He gets hurt, BB will pull him quick. If he doesn’t, he will succeed. You act like Cam has been running a college offense for 8 years?

you keep talking about his 2018 season (half of it if you count the part where he was hurt). He showed you stats of his entire career, which in term of number, is average.

 

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

So now that the facts are out, the excuses start.

I’m looking at his entire career to say he isn’t a pocket passer.
If teams sold out to stop the run wouldn’t Newton’s passing numbers go through the roof if he was a pocket passer?

When you limit a running QBs ability to run rely more on his throwing and go 0-6 what does that tell you?


In fact in 19 he played 2 games ran twice and was 0-2 while throwing for over 280 yards.
So since the injury, when newton stopped running (he has run 3.4 times per game since then vs 7.5 for his career) he has lost all 8 games he has played.

Uh yeah, during that 0-8 stretch Cam played through: 1) a torn rotator cuff on the throwing shoulder 2) a lis franc injury.

No quarterback in the history of the sport would have done any better given the situation.

You specifically addressed the second half of 2018 to fit your narrative. I’ve already addressed the other years in length in my own thread.


Box score scouts gonna box score scout I guess.

 

[Ring 6]

And what number, in all that, defines anything he did specifically from the pocket. That is the whole point. And he was supposed to run(or throw) with a busted up shoulder in 2018 or a lisfranc injury last year.

For a scenario that is a hypothetical that won’t happen. He gets hurt, BB will pull him quick. If he doesn’t, he will succeed. You act like Cam has been running a college offense for 8 years?

He has been running an offense that relies upon him to run to succeed.
He has been running an offense that has been thoroughly mediocre throwing the football and struggled to be above average even with the effect of his running skills.
I mean are you honestly telling me you think cam newton directed a great passing offense? That’s just not reality.
And I’m sure we can agree that a good running QB creates opportunities in the passing game.

 

[JackBauer187]

When he won the mvp he had the 2nd most rushing attempts by a QB in NFL history. How is that a “pocket passer”.

Before Lamar Jackson cane along to have the 2 highest seasons of rush attempts by a qb, Newton had 4 of the 5 highest rushing attempt seasons ever by a qb with only Bobby Douglass having a couple more one season.
Newton has 4 seasons with more rushes than Michael Vick, Randall Cunningham or Colin krapernick ever had. Yeah pocket passer.

How many times he runs has nothing to do with him being able to be successful from the pocket. And he had a case for MVP with just his passing numbers. Considering he threw well over 90% of his throws from the pocket, I would say he has shown he can be successful from the pocket. That’s a relevant fact. Not your because I said so.

 

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

Gotta love how these types act like these once in a generation type quarterbacks who happen to have an incredible running ability somehow hinders their game.

Amazingly they even make it to NFL coaching staffs....see GMs curiously wanting to turn MVP Lamar Jackson into a WR.

Hmm nothing to see here I’m sure.

 

[Ring 6]

Uh yeah, during that 0-8 stretch Cam played through: 1) a torn rotator cuff on the throwing shoulder 2) a lis franc injury.

So we are moving in to excuses?

No quarterback in the history of the sport would have done any better given the situation.

Brady has played through just as bad. Philip Rivers led a team to an afccg with a torn ACL.

You specifically addressed the second half of 2018 to fit your narrative. I’ve already addressed the other years in length in my own thread.

Wrong I addressed the second half because people said he was injure half way through the season and couldn’t throw. I showed that he threw the ball just as well but stopped running and it hurt his game.

Box score scouts gonna box score scout I guess.

Facts don’t lie.
When numbers come up you say stats don’t matter when results come up you make excuses about coaching, weapons, etc.

Let’s do this.
I posted the list of I think it was 16 or 18 QBs who were starters during Newton’s career and his rankings among the group. AS A PASSER where do you think he ranks within that group? The numbers say bottom 3 or 4.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

How many times he runs has nothing to do with him being able to be successful from the pocket. And he had a case for MVP with just his passing numbers. Considering he threw well over 90% of his throws from the pocket, I would say he has shown he can be successful from the pocket. That’s a relevant fact. Not your because I said so.

My question is: why it has happened only once?

 

[Ring 6]

Gotta love how these types act like these once in a generation type quarterbacks who happen to have an incredible running ability somehow hinders their game.

Amazingly they even make it to NFL coaching staffs....see GMs curiously wanting to turn MVP Lamar Jackson into a WR.

Hmm nothing to see here I’m sure.

Oh so now you want to try to pull a race card? Sure sign you know you have lost the argument

But by all means please tell me, the guy who just said many times that the running threat HELPS a qb, said running hinders them?
I am saying he relies on running. I’m saying it’s his greatest strength.
And I am also saying when he can’t run anyone that strength is gone and his weakness will hurt him.
Surely if he was a great passer while he could run he would have passing numbers near the top
rather than the bottom of his peers right?

 

[JackBauer187]

you keep talking about his 2018 season (half of it if you count the part where he was hurt). He showed you stats of his entire career, which in term of number, is average.

I’m addressing specific periods which were brought up, and completely misrepresented. I’ve offered to go over any season. Any game.

 

[Ring 6]

How many times he runs has nothing to do with him being able to be successful from the pocket.

what?
His success as a QB, which overall is mediocre as a passer, great as a runner, and slightly above average as a winner, is a combination of everything he does.
If he was the best running Qb in history, which is very arguable, and a great passer from the pocket his passing numbers would be dominant. They would destroy his immobile peers.
They aren’t. They are at the bottom.

And he had a case for MVP with just his passing numbers. Considering he threw well over 90% of his throws from the pocket, I would say he has shown he can be successful from the pocket. That’s a relevant fact. Not your because I said so.

No.
I posted his ranks among his starting peers in all passing categories. He is near the bottom in every one.
He has not shown he can be a good passer even with the running threat.

 

[Ring 6]

I’m addressing specific periods which were brought up, and completely misrepresented. I’ve offered to go over any season. Any game.

Im addressing his entire career, including all parts of it.

 

[JackBauer187]

My question is: why it has happened only once?

Blocking. Period. When they didn’t, they lost.

 

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

Oh so now you want to try to pull a race card? Sure sign you know you have lost the argument

But by all means please tell me, the guy who just said many times that the running threat HELPS a qb, said running hinders them?
I am saying he relies on running. I’m saying it’s his greatest strength.
And I am also saying when he can’t run anyone that strength is gone and his weakness will hurt him.
Surely if he was a great passer while he could run would have passing numbers near the top
rather than the bottom of his peers right?

You’re unwilling to even look at the context of games Cam started with a torn rotator cuff and one of the most serious foot injuries in the sport, so let’s not even get started on looking at the context of Cam’s entire career. Lol, I’m done humoring your attempts at sealioning.

Good day sir!

 

[JackBauer187]

what?
His success as a QB, which overall is mediocre as a passer, great as a runner, and slightly above average as a winner, is a combination of everything he does.
If he was the best running Qb in history, which is very arguable, and a great passer from the pocket his passing numbers would be dominant. They would destroy his immobile peers.
They aren’t. They are at the bottom.


No.
I posted his ranks among his starting peers in all passing categories. He is near the bottom in every one.
He has not shown he can be a good passer even with the running threat.

So winning an MVP, throwing over 90% from the pocket, isn’t any good? Got it. See I didn’t realize that. My bad.

 

[Ring 6]

You’re unwilling to even look at the context of games Cam started with a torn rotator cuff and one of the most serious foot injuries in the sport, so let’s not even get started on looking at the context of Cam’s entire career. Lol, I’m done humoring your attempts at sealioning.

Good day sir!

I’m looking at everything.
It’s a great example of how his game is affected by not being able to be a running threat.
I’m not sure why you feel the need to be offended that I recognize the guys #1 strength as his # 1 strength.

 

[Ring 6]

So winning an MVP, throwing over 90% from the pocket, isn’t any good? Got it. See I didn’t realize that. My bad.

You are the one making up “90% from the pocket”. He didn’t win an mvp because of his passing from the pocket. My god that’s like acknowledging water is wet.
Again I showed his career vs his peers. Are you arguing he compares favorably?

He is a DUAL THREAT QB. He is mediocre as a passer but incredible as a runner.
Why do you find accepting that to be painful? If you have watched him play it’s obvious.

 

[RASTAN99]

Good info, but I take exception to your conclusion in red.

Just because his situation was less grave BEFORE the operation, doesn't (necessarily) change or lessen the POST-OPERATIVE recovery time.

Note: Anderson math seems off 8 wk + 6 wk + 3mo = 6.5 mo (assuming 4wk mo). So I have 6-6.5 mo; not
5.

Cheers.

Anderson didn't do any math, he simply said 5-6 months to recover from surgery.

In general terms you're certainly entitled to take exception my assertion that Cam's recovery time would be shortened because the severity going in was on the lesser end of the scale...

...but doing so would be ignoring publicly available information to the contrary.

December 12 post-op pic:



March 29 (3.5 months) unrestricted/high-impact workout videos posted:



Videos available here:
Note: Original poster I responded to cited 6-8 months as "typical"...that's just not accurate.