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Newton vs Stidham: Who wins the QB Battle? (poll)


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Asking for your support
 

Who will be the Patriots Starting QB in 2020?

  • Newton

    Votes: 110 73.3%
  • Stidham

    Votes: 19 12.7%
  • Newton will start, but Stidham will take over mid-season

    Votes: 17 11.3%
  • Stidham will start, but Newton will take over mid-season

    Votes: 4 2.7%

  • Total voters
    150
  • Poll closed .
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The implication of my post is if Stidham wins the job and has Brady's mentality, then he's not giving the job back to Cam. He's going to hold on to it.

I agree that if he wins the job that he won't be giving it back to Newton. Mostly because in that case Newton won't be on the roster anymore just because of pragmatic salary cap reasons alone.

And why the assumption that Cam will be miles better than Stidham? We haven't seen Stidham, and we haven't seen Cam in this offense.

What do you mean "this offense" ? It will be an offense tailored to Cam Newton (or Stidham). Is there actually anyone who thinks McDaniels will not just continue what he has masterfully done with Brady and keep morphing the offense to emphasize strengths ?

And why the assumption that Cam is miles better than Stidham ? The same reason why I assume Brady will be the Bucs starter and not Blaine Gabbert.

One player has repeatedly shown he can be a top tier QB. The other has not shown that he can throw 3 straight passes without getting intercepted. Experience alone makes Cam a much better QB at this point of their careers.

Yeah, Stidham most probably improved a lot since our last exposure to him but without actual on field experience there is no way for him to catch up. The experience of playing through one game on NFL level is worth many games of film study and walkthroughs.

What it boils down to is that the gap between Brady and Jimmy was substantially smaller than what we have with a healthy Cam and Stidham and yet if someone would have suggested Jimmy beating out Brady in camp he would have been designated the board idiot.
 
I agree that if he wins the job that he won't be giving it back to Newton. Mostly because in that case Newton won't be on the roster anymore just because of pragmatic salary cap reasons alone.



What do you mean "this offense" ? It will be an offense tailored to Cam Newton (or Stidham). Is there actually anyone who thinks McDaniels will not just continue what he has masterfully done with Brady and keep morphing the offense to emphasize strengths ?

And why the assumption that Cam is miles better than Stidham ? The same reason why I assume Brady will be the Bucs starter and not Blaine Gabbert.

One player has repeatedly shown he can be a top tier QB. The other has not shown that he can throw 3 straight passes without getting intercepted. Experience alone makes Cam a much better QB at this point of their careers.

Yeah, Stidham most probably improved a lot since our last exposure to him but without actual on field experience there is no way for him to catch up. The experience of playing through one game on NFL level is worth many games of film study and walkthroughs.

What it boils down to is that the gap between Brady and Jimmy was substantially smaller than what we have with a healthy Cam and Stidham and yet if someone would have suggested Jimmy beating out Brady in camp he would have been designated the board idiot.
Brady is the GOAT. Comparing can newton to brady is ridiculous.
 
One player has repeatedly shown he can be a top tier QB

I don’t know in which world you live in but the only think that Cam has proven repeatedly is that he is an above average QB at best. He was never a top tier QB. He is in the 10-15 QB range in this league and always has been.

And if you take away his legs, he has nothing. He can’t throw a football accurately constantly and would of been out the league by now.

he has been good 1 year and a half of his 9 year career. When I listen to you I have the impression that you talked about a guy of Aaron Rodgers level.
 
I don’t know in which world you live in but the only think that Cam has proven repeatedly is that he is an above average QB at best. He was never a top tier QB. He is in the 10-15 QB range in this league and always has been.

And if you take away his legs, he has nothing. He can’t throw a football accurately constantly and would of been out the league by now.

he has been good 1 year and a half of his 9 year career. When I listen to you I have the impression that you talked about a guy of Aaron Rodgers level.

Sounds like you have never watched him play but instead just repeat lazy narratives.

Lazar and others have done a deep dive on his tape and its pretty obvious he reads defenses on an impressive level presnap and postsnap, can fit the ball in tight windows (Yes, go watch the tape), also has good accuracy downfield, is absurdly difficult to bring down and by all accounts has an absolute exemplary work ethic. And all while his best OL was still tiers below whatever our worst was.

When not playing deep ball roulette like under his first couple of coordinators but getting a real OC in Norv Turner he showed in 2018 that he can easily post a completion percentage in the very high 60s using the same kinda mix of short & intermediate passes and the occasional deep throw that we can expect from a classic McDaniels offense.

Add in that in contrast to Brady teams will play us with much less man coverage because of the constant threat of Newton taking off which will have a pretty big synergistic effect on a lot of the routes in the playbook.

The only question about him is his health. And that is a big question that will loom over him through the entire season.

But you are not interested in any of this because you are not having a good faith discussion. You clearly have some bias either because of his eccentricity or maybe because of other reasons.

If you had just seen one full game worth of his play from 2018 before his shoulder got shredded by TJ Watt you'd never write absolute utter garbage like "the only thing he has are his legs".

Calling Cam someone who can only run is the equivalent of how fans of other teams think Brady is a soft player who gets all the calls.
 
Brady is the GOAT. Comparing can newton to brady is ridiculous.

Yeah, when you strip away multiple paragraphs of context, you're right.
 
But you are not interested in any of this because you are not having a good faith discussion. You clearly have some bias either because of his eccentricity or maybe because of other reasons.

You think he is the second coming of Joe Montana and I don’t. I just don’t think that he is that good.

we’ll see in a month.

No need to call me a racist.
 
Yeah, when you strip away multiple paragraphs of context, you're right.
With the context there is no comparison.
Brady playing at goat level being replaced by unproven castoff jimmy g is not in any way comparable to cast off newton who signed for the minimum being beaten out by a guy who has been in the system that newton hasn’t.
 
I agree that if he wins the job that he won't be giving it back to Newton. Mostly because in that case Newton won't be on the roster anymore just because of pragmatic salary cap reasons alone.



What do you mean "this offense" ? It will be an offense tailored to Cam Newton (or Stidham). Is there actually anyone who thinks McDaniels will not just continue what he has masterfully done with Brady and keep morphing the offense to emphasize strengths ?

And why the assumption that Cam is miles better than Stidham ? The same reason why I assume Brady will be the Bucs starter and not Blaine Gabbert.

One player has repeatedly shown he can be a top tier QB. The other has not shown that he can throw 3 straight passes without getting intercepted. Experience alone makes Cam a much better QB at this point of their careers.

Yeah, Stidham most probably improved a lot since our last exposure to him but without actual on field experience there is no way for him to catch up. The experience of playing through one game on NFL level is worth many games of film study and walkthroughs.

What it boils down to is that the gap between Brady and Jimmy was substantially smaller than what we have with a healthy Cam and Stidham and yet if someone would have suggested Jimmy beating out Brady in camp he would have been designated the board idiot.

I meant in EP offense. Can Cam get the terminology down before the start of the season? McD is not going to scrap EP just to fit Cam. There'll be nuances tailored to him, but as Stidham said in yesterday's presser, they are just getting the fundamentals down of the offense at this point.

The Brady/Gabbert comparison is not a good one because you are dealing with a QB in Brady who was specifically brought there to be the starter. We don't know if that's the case with Cam. The fact that BB gave him such a low contract with a lot of incentives tells me Cam has to work if he wants to be the starter.

And I agree that we need to see Stidham in a game situation to evaluate. That's why I'm saying that it's not a given that Cam is going to be the starter. Stidham knows the offense. Cam is coming in cold. On the other hand, Cam is more talented than Stidham, but will that translate into running our offense efficiently? We'll see, and that's what TC is all about.

With Jimmy, we saw him play in 2.5 games plus preseason to get a flavor for what he can do. We knew he was going to be good, if not spectacular. Stidham didn't have that luxury last year of playing much.
 
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"...battle"?
 
I meant in EP offense. Can Cam get the terminology down before the start of the season? McD is not going to scrap EP just to fit Cam.
Apparently the Panthers' offense in Newton's time there incorporated aspects of Erhardt-Perkins. Not sure though how much.
 
I meant in EP offense. Can Cam get the terminology down before the start of the season? McD is not going to scrap EP just to fit Cam. There'll be nuances tailored to him, but as Stidham said in yesterday's presser, they are just getting the fundamentals down of the offense at this point.

Cam ran an EP offense under Turner in Carolina. You can find multiple articles written by the various beat guys talking about that. The exact concepts will have different names, the details will differ but the basic way it operates with respect to option routes, terminology in the huddle etc. won't.

The fact that BB gave him such a low contract with a lot of incentives tells me Cam has to work if he wants to be the starter.

The only thing anyone should ever learn from a contract is that this was the price it took to get a player into the building. The incentives tell you that they wanted to push as much via NLTBE into next year as possible.

If they had gotten money back a few weeks earlier then Newton's contract would have been more expensive in 2020. He wanted a chance to start and we were the only one making an offer with a limited amount of cap space. Demand and supply.

Stidham knows the offense.

Hoyer knows the offense alot better than Stidham and has years of experience. And the gap between those two is much smaller than between Stidham and Newton.

So by that "game knowledge" metric he should be ahead of Stidham, right ?


Can we all just take a step back and realize that Stidham beating a healthy Newton would be a crazy upset ? We are talking about a second year QB who vomited all over himself in his regular season snaps compared to a proven high level player ?
 
Cam ran an EP offense under Turner in Carolina. You can find multiple articles written by the various beat guys talking about that. The exact concepts will have different names, the details will differ but the basic way it operates with respect to option routes, terminology in the huddle etc. won't.



The only thing anyone should ever learn from a contract is that this was the price it took to get a player into the building. The incentives tell you that they wanted to push as much via NLTBE into next year as possible.

If they had gotten money back a few weeks earlier then Newton's contract would have been more expensive in 2020. He wanted a chance to start and we were the only one making an offer with a limited amount of cap space. Demand and supply.



Hoyer knows the offense alot better than Stidham and has years of experience. And the gap between those two is much smaller than between Stidham and Newton.

So by that "game knowledge" metric he should be ahead of Stidham, right ?


Can we all just take a step back and realize that Stidham beating a healthy Newton would be a crazy upset ? We are talking about a second year QB who vomited all over himself in his regular season snaps compared to a proven high level player ?

Cam said the playbook was like calculus, so we'll see if he can pick it up by Sept. 15.
 
Sounds like you have never watched him play but instead just repeat lazy narratives.
Not lazy at all. His opinion is supported by numbers and by tape.

Lazar and others have done a deep dive on his tape and its pretty obvious he reads defenses on an impressive level presnap and postsnap, can fit the ball in tight windows (Yes, go watch the tape), also has good accuracy downfield, is absurdly difficult to bring down and by all accounts has an absolute exemplary work ethic. And all while his best OL was still tiers below whatever our worst was.
This is pretty much fantasy land. But let’s unpack it.
It’s pretty obvious Brady reads a defense impressively presnap and post snap because he does special things in that area. I’m sure newton can understand what he sees at a reasonable level but it’s not “impressive”. Accuracy isn’t about “can fit the ball into tight windows” it’s about being consistently accurate with all throws, which he just isn’t. It’s not one if his strengths and it’s ok to admit that. And you are out of your mind with that OL comment, almost as if you just made it up because it sounds good.
Yes he is one hell of a runner and we need to bank in that strength helping him overcome his liabilities.

When not playing deep ball roulette like under his first couple of coordinators
That was never the system he played in. Never.


but getting a real OC in Norv Turner he showed in 2018 that he can easily post a completion percentage in the very high 60s using the same kinda mix of short & intermediate passes and the occasional deep throw that we can expect from a classic McDaniels offense.
The difference in his completion percentage was largely 100+ dump offs to mccaffrey but the insight needed to understand that is the offense really wasn’t any better. All that changed was his completion percentage. So sure you can throw a ton of screens and his completion % might look good but that doesn’t make him a more accurate or effective QB.

Add in that in contrast to Brady teams will play us with much less man coverage because of the constant threat of Newton taking off which will have a pretty big synergistic effect on a lot of the routes in the playbook.
This will not be anything new to Newton. He isn’t Brady so how less man would affect Brady is really irrelevant to newton.

The only question about him is his health. And that is a big question that will loom over him through the entire season.
The question is actually both health (ability to) and willingness to be a true dual threat QB. If he isnt willing to run, every bit of evidence we have says he will not be very good.

But you are not interested in any of this because you are not having a good faith discussion. You clearly have some bias either because of his eccentricity or maybe because of other reasons.
Cut the crap. He is evaluating a player, and frankly doing a pretty good job. It has nothing to do Ruth race.

If you had just seen one full game worth of his play from 2018 before his shoulder got shredded by TJ Watt you'd never write absolute utter garbage like "the only thing he has are his legs".
I wouldn’t agree the only thing he has are his legs, but without his legs he is mediocre at best. The biggest reason for him falling apart in the second half of 18 is because his running game threat was severely diminished and he was stuck miscast as a pocket passer.

Calling Cam someone who can only run is the equivalent of how fans of other teams think Brady is a soft player who gets all the calls.
No, but it is wrong. Without being able to run he probably is a borderline starting caliber nfl qb, but to be effective he has to use the run.
 
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we don't know if he's "borderline" yet Andy....I say give Newton the chance to show us what he has, and has left I can't possible begin to denigrate his play on any level before that.
 
Not lazy at all. His opinion is supported by numbers and by tape.


one if his strengths and it’s ok to admit that. And you are out of your mind with that OL comment, almost as if you just made it up because it sounds good.
Yes he is one hell of a runner and we need to bank in that strength helping him overcome his liabilities.


That was never the system he played in. Never.


It’s not easy to have so many completely wrong takes in one post, kudos.
 
Can we all just take a step back and realize that Stidham beating a healthy Newton would be a crazy upset ? We are talking about a second year QB who vomited all over himself in his regular season snaps compared to a proven high level player ?

I agree but I wouldn’t put much stock into that regular season debut. It was garbage time. Also to be honest it wasn’t any worse than Brady’s debut was - which was also in garbage time- and Brady did all right for himself.
 
Anyone want to put some money on the Cam vs Stidham “battle“? I can do Venmo, PayPal, cash app...
 
Can we all just take a step back and realize that Stidham beating a healthy Newton would be a crazy upset ? We are talking about a second year QB who vomited all over himself in his regular season snaps compared to a proven high level player ?
Come on. The guy overthrew 1 pass in his first nfl action. Letting 1 pass get away from you is not “vomiting all over yourself”.
You really can make an argument for newton without embarrassing yourself by over exaggerating every point you make.
Everyone has there own opinion, there is no need to be dishonest in order to try to get people to like yours.
 
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