Newton vs Stidham: Who wins the QB Battle? (poll)

[SHOWTIME15]

I think it's a coin flip.

Any thoughts on why Scarnecchia chose to make the observation which is highlighted in red?

I don't think he meant to say Newton wasn't smart, if that's what you are implying. He's never worked with Newton before and was just praising Stidham's intelligence based on what he's seen over the past year.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

BB saw how this season would be problematic especially for a new QB and went out and got a proven experienced QB in Newton.

Under normal circumstances with a complete practice regimen and all preseason games, Stidham had a legit shot to be the opening day QB. But thats not the case.

And yet Belichick was in no hurry to sign a QB, and waited until he could sign Newton for pennies on the dollar, metaphorically.

 

[RASTAN99]

BB saw how this season would be problematic especially for a new QB and went out and got a proven experienced QB in Newton.

Under normal circumstances with a complete practice regimen and all preseason games, Stidham had a legit shot to be the opening day QB. But thats not the case.

That's an intriguing observation.

I'm listening to Colin Cowherd and 10 minutes ago he discussed Cam in the exact context you outline above --- interestingly he arrived at the opposite conclusion...his take is Cam will be disadvantaged by the lack of OTA's, pre-season games, etc and it will hurt his chances of succeeding with the Patriots.

 

[PatsDeb]

I don't think we would have signed Newton if Stidham is all that. I voted that Newton will start, but Stidham will take over, not because he's so good, but because I expect Newton to get injured and be unable to play. This all supposes, of course, that there is actually a season, which I am still pretty doubtful about.

 

[bresna]

The biggest question mark for Newton is that Lisfranc surgery he had December 10th. That surgery typically requires 6-8 months to fully recover. Newton seems to have rushed that... an NFL job opening will do that. If he truly rushed back and it's affecting his throws, he might get beat out on performance.

A Lisfranc injury is basically what ended Ty Law's career.

 

[Patjew]

Because of his rookie contract I'm pulling for Stidham to be the GOAT 2.0, but I think that I have a better chance of convincing my wife to move to Utah and welcoming a second wife into the family than Stidham has of winning the QB battle this year.

Isn't one more than enough?

 

[RASTAN99]

The biggest question mark for Newton is that Lisfranc surgery he had December 10th. That surgery typically requires 6-8 months to fully recover.

Newton seems to have rushed that... an NFL job opening will do that. If he truly rushed back and it's affecting his throws, he might get beat out on performance.

Dr. Robert Anderson (top foot & ankle guy globally, and who BTW recommended Cam not have surgery) makes detailed comments about Lisfranc in an article here: NFL orthopedic surgeon: Lisfranc foot ailment is 'bizarre injury'

His specific comment on recover time was: "There are situations where the Lisfranc needs to be operated on. If the joint is out of place or has a bone injury or has significant instability, then those are reasons for surgery and surgery is basically done to stabilize those joint injuries with a combination of screws or metal plates. That can take 5-6 months to recover from surgery."

Cam's foot is fine and has long since healed. He has been posting strenuous workout videos with no limitations to social media for months.

You might not be aware of it but 3 different doctors (including Dr. Anderson) recommended that Cam not go the surgery route. Another quote from Dr. Anderson: "The question is do they need surgery or not need surgery? We see a lot of stable Lisfranc injuries that don't require surgery."

It appeared that Cam went doctor shopping until he found one who would operate on him, which he did...but given the previous Dr. rec's it's clear that on the severity spectrum the starting point of Cam's specific situation was lesser, thereby implying an even shorter recovery time.

Physically Cam is healthy as a horse, if he doesn't stick with the Patriots it won't be because of any lingering issues with shoulder or foot.

 

[jimnance]

Isn't one more than enough?

I know one ex is more than enough

 

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

Cam's foot is fine and has long since healed. He has been posting strenuous workout videos with no limitations to social media for months.

Physically Cam is healthy as a horse, if he doesn't stick with the Patriots it won't be because of any lingering issues with shoulder or foot.

Feels weird having to point this out on a football forum, but private offseason workouts are not the same as putting the human body through a full NFL season. Even if Cam looks great through week 7 or 8, I’m still gonna be concerned about that throwing shoulder losing steam.

 

[Joker]

If you don't like feeling weird, keep your yap shut.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

And yet Belichick was in no hurry to sign a QB, and waited until he could sign Newton for pennies on the dollar, metaphorically.

That was less a strategic choice but more the fact the Pats had <1M cap space almost the entire offseason.

.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Test them both

 

[RASTAN99]

Feels weird having to point this out on a football forum, but private offseason workouts are not the same as putting the human body through a full NFL season.

Even if Cam looks great through week 7 or 8, I’m still gonna be concerned about that throwing shoulder losing steam.

Of course they're not same --- but they are definitively an indicator of overall health (or lack thereof).

I don't share your concerns about his shoulder. Time will tell.

Hey, on the topic, here's a link to an interview Jake Delholmme gave back in March and at the 4:30 mark for about 75 seconds he speaks directly to the subject of Cam's shoulder (at the 6:15 mark he also makes some observations about the Cam/Patriots/Stidham scenario):

Jake Delhomme, Former NFL Quarterback

(note: last year Jake signed on as the radio color guy with the Panthers and was at training camp with the team)

 

[RASTAN99]

Hearing some sports radio talk about this Boston Globe article from yesterday: Will Cam Newton mesh with Bill Belichick? Former Panthers, Patriots weigh in

This is a key passage:

"Belichick surely understands that Newton, like most players, performs best when he’s allowed to be himself. There is room for exuberance, personality and joking around the halls of Gillette. But from no player will Belichick tolerate thin skin or pouting that diminishes his full effort.

According to Love, the Panthers’ last coaching staff did both.

“This is just my opinion, but I don’t feel like Cam can take the pressure of coaches talking down about his play. If he had a bad game in Carolina, the coaching staff wouldn’t say much to him because they may have felt he could be a little frail about it or maybe pout,” he said. “They never really corrected to the point Bill used to correct Tom.”

Correct or, as some might say, humiliate. Love echoed stories told by other Patriots past of how Belichick would ridicule Brady in team meetings after poor performances and call him names, even describing the future Hall of Famer once as a moron. He expects Newton to receive the same treatment.

“Bill’s going to be Bill, and he’s going to let Cam know how he feels no matter what. Everybody is treated equal, and I actually love that about Bill because that let the whole team know you’re going to be held accountable,” Love said.

What Belichick is sure to love in Newton is his work ethic. In Carolina, the former league MVP was famous for arriving early and exhausting himself in workouts. Former teammates almost universally, no matter how long they played with Newton, revere him for how he pursued excellence daily.

His dedication and competitive nature were never in question."

In the article Marshall Newhouse also goes on record with effusive support of Cam's day-to-day work ethic...big positive.

 

[hornetfb85]

If what Kyle Love said is true in any respect, CN better toughen The &@$& up if he wants to quarterback this team. BB will coach his *** harder than he’s ever been coached before. He’s no longer got the blanket of his past accolades to fall back on. CN has a lot to prove if he wants to be a quarterback in this league now and in the future. If he is gonna be made of...

he joined the wrong team.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

I want Stidham to win for no other stupid reason than he's "our guy" and we drafted him but I think Cam is likely the better QB at this point. I just hope he stays with us for a long time if he's back to his old form

 

[stcjones]

I’m rooting for Stidham, but I think Newton wins it. IF Stidham somehow wins it, it would be a great sign for him and his future as an NFL QB.

Agree....I think it will be a good battle....Cam has all the experience....not really considering MVP stuff right now because that was several years ago....worried about his throwing shoulder and foot issues .. Stidham from all reports has been awesome in practice, can make all the throws (Mccourty, Gilmore comments),can run well and is very intelligent......I am pulling for Stid but whoever BB feels is best to lead this team in battle is fine with me....Glad we have these two talents competing!!.....another question is does Hoyer stick or could Lewerke compete for #3?! GO PATS!

 

[stcjones]

Thats the best case scenario and I hope that happens

Hoyer will shock the world.

Lewerke for the win......TD PATRIOTS!!!!

 

[RASTAN99]

If what Kyle Love said is true in any respect, CN better toughen The &@$& up if he wants to quarterback this team. BB will coach his *** harder than he’s ever been coached before. He’s no longer got the blanket of his past accolades to fall back on. CN has a lot to prove if he wants to be a quarterback in this league now and in the future. If he is gonna be made of...

he joined the wrong team.

Spot on.

There's zero doubt that a heapin' helpin' of BB is the single best thing that could happen to Cam at this point in his career.

If Cam is able to scarf it all down and maintain his composure....it probably results in a ticket to the Hall of Fame.

 

[Gumby]

Dr. Robert Anderson (top foot & ankle guy globally, and who BTW recommended Cam not have surgery) makes detailed comments about Lisfranc ...

His specific comment on recover time was: "There are situations where the Lisfranc needs to be operated on. If the joint is out of place or has a bone injury or has significant instability, then those are reasons for surgery and surgery is basically done to stabilize those joint injuries with a combination of screws or metal plates. That can take 5-6 months to recover from surgery."

Cam's foot is fine and has long since healed. He has been posting strenuous workout videos with no limitations to social media for months.

...but given the previous Dr. rec's it's clear that on the severity spectrum the starting point of Cam's specific situation was lesser, thereby implying an even shorter recovery time.

Physically Cam is healthy as a horse, if he doesn't stick with the Patriots it won't be because of any lingering issues with shoulder or foot.

Good info, but I take exception to your conclusion in red.

Just because his situation was less grave BEFORE the operation, doesn't (necessarily) change or lessen the POST-OPERATIVE recovery time. Recovery time is for the invasive nature of the OP, allowing the connective tissues to reestablish and have bone growth around those pins/screws (if left in or to fill gaps/joints if later removed/only used to hold things in place). He might still have lesser time reqd than the 5-6 months, but if so that is an individual case circumstance and not based on any pre-operative condition.

Anderson's cats in article even define the recovery time and the first 2/3 recovery phases definitely don't change based on PRE-operative condition:

You usually have to stay completely off the foot 6 to 8 weeks after surgery. Then they're in a boot for six weeks. Then they can begin the rehabilitation process, which can take about three months after that.

I think most of the rehab is to build back up from the layoff /loss of muscle from nonuse. so that final 3 months is only time that could flex (and is very individual to their level of discipline/training)., but also still independent of original preop condition.

Note: Anderson math seems off 8 wk + 6 wk + 3mo = 6.5 mo (assuming 4wk mo). So I have 6-6.5 mo; not 5.