NEW ARTICLE: Zappe’s Emergence is Certainly Changing Patriots’ QB Conversation

[Wozzy]

That’s misleading. Two of the games where the Patriots scored 21 or more points with Zappe as a starter, the only reason is because of special teams TDs. The offense has scored 21 point once with Zappe as a starter (Pittsburgh).

Yesterday, the Pats only scored 14 points on offense, but 21 points in total. Reagor scored a kick return TD. Even if Ryland didn‘t blow his two field goal attempts, it would have only been 20 point.

Against Denver, the Pats scored 19 points on offense and 26 in total. The Pats scored a special teams TD recovering a fumble in the end zone.

The offense has been bottom of the league with both Zappe and Mac because neither QB is a starter at this point and there is little to no talent on the offensive side of the ball.

It’s not misleading. Mac Jones was leading the NFL in pick sixes and turnovers for scores. He managed an offense that was dead last in creating first downs. They were also one of the most penalized offenses in the league.

Zappe hasn’t been amazing but at least he’s run a mostly penalty free operation, has moved the ball and put up points.

Mac has started three years… stop making excuses for him.

 

[ralmat55]

What an angry, hateful place this has become. Every post is contentious and argumentative.

It’s only football people; it’s wins and losses not life or death. I love the Patriots and the game of football , but, if it caused me the misery it seems to cause some of you, I would find another interest.

 

[venecol]

I don't know what tree you think you're barking up but Mac never was "my boy." Unlike you I simply wanted him to succeed because he was who the Patriots started at quarterback. He got his chance to prove himself worthy of a first-round investment and failed, so that page was turned and rightfully so. Zappe hasn't exactly set the world on fire but has shown welcome improvement since his poor training camp performance, practice squad stint and getting cut.

Point being that you disapproved of anyone questioning Mac and insisted on people giving him more time (3 seasons) to properly be evaluated. You don't seem to have the same patience for Bailey after only starting half a season worth of games.

I'm invested in this team winning regardless of who's behind center. You consider Zappe a starting-caliber franchise quarterback. I don't, at least not to this point but would be very happy to be proven wrong. Perhaps the impending coaching change will fuel HOPE that fortunes at the position improve as needed, whoever it is. That even could include your boy Bailey, who I'm pulling for to beat the Jete on Sunday.

I don't think anyone can claim with any confidence whether Bailey is or is not a starting caliber QB given his limited games and him not working with 1st team reps for the majority of his tenure.

I think the potential is there for him to improve. He sees the field, has good pocket presence, isn't shy about flinging the ball down the field, can scramble for yards, and has a decent arm (good enough). He needs more reps and time with the paltry receiving corp he's playing with. He made the correct decision on the slant throw to Parker, which tells me he's seeing and adjusting like the playbook calls for. Unfortunately Parker is clueless and failed to also adjust.

None of this means the Pats don't try to find their guy in the upcoming draft. Whether they finish 3rd or 5th in the draft order, they need to move up to get their guy.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

Point being that you disapproved of anyone questioning Mac and insisted on people giving him more time (3 seasons) to properly be evaluated. You don't seem to have the same patience for Bailey after only starting half a season worth of games.


I don't think anyone can claim with any confidence whether Bailey is or is not a starting caliber QB given his limited games and him not working with 1st team reps for the majority of his tenure.

I think the potential is there for him to improve. He sees the field, has good pocket presence, isn't shy about flinging the ball down the field, can scramble for yards, and has a decent arm (good enough). He needs more reps and time with the paltry receiving corp he's playing with. He made the correct decision on the slant throw to Parker, which tells me he's seeing and adjusting like the playbook calls for. Unfortunately Parker is clueless and failed to also adjust.

None of this means the Pats don't try to find their guy in the upcoming draft. Whether they finish 3rd or 5th in the draft order, they need to move up to get their guy.

Can’t agree on Zappe. It’s clear what he is and is not. Potential to be a decent backup capable of spot play IF he can wrap his own mind around that and “know his role”.

He lacks the physical tools to be a true #1.

He threw 3 picks in a half, 2 of which were truly awful. The throw to Reagor wasn’t on Zappe.

His size makes it difficult to see the field in front of him well, AND he doesn’t have the arm to make some of the throws he thinks he can make at the NFL level.

Gotta know who you are.

I want a bigger QB, with a better arm.

If that comes in FA or the draft doesn’t really matter to me.

Zappe could have a nice long backup career IF he gets it out of his head that he should be QB1 on any team he is on.

I have questions about his ability to do that based upon reports.

 

[Rob0729]

It’s not misleading. Mac Jones was leading the NFL in pick sixes and turnovers for scores. He managed an offense that was dead last in creating first downs. They were also one of the most penalized offenses in the league.

Zappe hasn’t been amazing but at least he’s run a mostly penalty free operation, has moved the ball and put up points.

Mac has started three years… stop making excuses for him.

It is absolutely misleading and has nothing to do with Mac Jones. You made it look like Zappe and the offense scored 21 points or more in three games this season. They didn’t. They only did once.

And other than on the second half Sunday, Zappe and the offense has struggled to move the ball consistently. The offense had seven three and outs against Denver. Seven. I think four or five of Zappe’s TD drives have started on the opponent’s side of the field.

 

[Ring 6]

No team has ever built a Super Bowl winner or even a contender around a LT or WR. If you just want a “better” team then sure go for that LT or WR, but if you want to contend for deep playoff runs you search for a QB til you find one.

No team has ever built a SB Champ around a bust Qb draft pick either
And no team has ever won solely because of a Qb.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s interesting that whenever someone tries to argue Zappe is a viable starter in this league you can almost always sum that argument up that he checks the boxes of a serviceable BACKUP quarterback in the league and he’s not Mac Jones. Ok cool? Mac Jones in 2023 is a very low bar…I would hope he clears at least that level.

Yesterday was another loss that would have been a win with average qb play.
Zappe is better than 10 but still a liability at the position.

 

[Tunescribe]

Point being that you disapproved of anyone questioning Mac and insisted on people giving him more time (3 seasons) to properly be evaluated. You don't seem to have the same patience for Bailey after only starting half a season worth of games.

No, I didn't "disapprove of anyone questioning Mac" where criticism was warranted and there was ample room for that from 2022-on. Along with many others I simply felt he deserved another chance to capitalize on his promising rookie performance and prove himself after the Patricia/Judge fiasco.

Perhaps I am too dismissive of Zappe being legit starter material and all he needs is more playing time. Despite having doubts I want him to do well, don't get me wrong. We'll see what the team thinks.

I don't think anyone can claim with any confidence whether Bailey is or is not a starting caliber QB given his limited games and him not working with 1st team reps for the majority of his tenure.

I think the potential is there for him to improve. He sees the field, has good pocket presence, isn't shy about flinging the ball down the field, can scramble for yards, and has a decent arm (good enough). He needs more reps and time with the paltry receiving corp he's playing with. He made the correct decision on the slant throw to Parker, which tells me he's seeing and adjusting like the playbook calls for. Unfortunately Parker is clueless and failed to also adjust.

None of this means the Pats don't try to find their guy in the upcoming draft. Whether they finish 3rd or 5th in the draft order, they need to move up to get their guy.

Fair enough.

 

[lancerman]

Point being that you disapproved of anyone questioning Mac and insisted on people giving him more time (3 seasons) to properly be evaluated. You don't seem to have the same patience for Bailey after only starting half a season worth of games.


I don't think anyone can claim with any confidence whether Bailey is or is not a starting caliber QB given his limited games and him not working with 1st team reps for the majority of his tenure.

I think the potential is there for him to improve. He sees the field, has good pocket presence, isn't shy about flinging the ball down the field, can scramble for yards, and has a decent arm (good enough). He needs more reps and time with the paltry receiving corp he's playing with. He made the correct decision on the slant throw to Parker, which tells me he's seeing and adjusting like the playbook calls for. Unfortunately Parker is clueless and failed to also adjust.

None of this means the Pats don't try to find their guy in the upcoming draft. Whether they finish 3rd or 5th in the draft order, they need to move up to get their guy.

Here's the issue, all the problems Zappe has are things people said about Mac. There's 3 options.

1. Either both QB's suck
2. The offense around the QB is AWFUL and causing their poor results.
3. It's a mix of both.

But there isn't enough to say Zappe is the answer and Mac isn't based on the results.

IF we are going to say Zappe deserves a chance with a better team, I don't see how you reconcile that thinking Mac isn't the same boat. No amount of extra time changes how bad the rest of the offense is.

My true opinion is that it's a mix of both and both guys are NOT starting caliber but also NOT as bad as they've looked this year under this offense.

So at this point, you either have to decide if you want to blame the rest of the offense and try to aggressively load up and run it back with both of them to see how they each perform under better circumstances OR you just get a new QB in the draft with higher potential and try to elevate the offense a decent amount and start building around the new guy.

 

[venecol]

Here's the issue, all the problems Zappe has are things people said about Mac. There's 3 options.

1. Either both QB's suck
2. The offense around the QB is AWFUL and causing their poor results.
3. It's a mix of both.

But there isn't enough to say Zappe is the answer and Mac isn't based on the results.

IF we are going to say Zappe deserves a chance with a better team, I don't see how you reconcile that thinking Mac isn't the same boat. No amount of extra time changes how bad the rest of the offense is.

My true opinion is that it's a mix of both and both guys are NOT starting caliber but also NOT as bad as they've looked this year under this offense.

So at this point, you either have to decide if you want to blame the rest of the offense and try to aggressively load up and run it back with both of them to see how they each perform under better circumstances OR you just get a new QB in the draft with higher potential and try to elevate the offense a decent amount and start building around the new guy.

The offense is ass so we need both: get a new QB and load up the rest of the offense but it'll take time. Anyone that thinks this team will be a contender or even win >9 games next season is delusional.

Let Zappe compete with whomever they bring in. Mac is toast.

 

[lancerman]

The offense is ass so we need both: get a new QB and load up the rest of the offense but it'll take time. Anyone that thinks this team will be a contender or even win >9 games next season is delusional.

Let Zappe compete with whomever they bring in. Mac is toast.

The problem is that strategically if you think we might have the QB on the roster, you really should commit to a different direction. Either say you can run it back with Zappe/Mac and leverage the high picks to go all in on the WR's and line OR get the new QB and start building up the line and methodically build around him for 2-3 years.

They need to just pick a direction and go all in. This team has been too wishy washy.

 

[sb1]

No team has ever built a SB Champ around a bust Qb draft pick either

Probably because a SB win would by definition make them not a QB bust?

And no team has ever won solely because of a Qb.

No team has ever been terrible solely because of a QB.

 

[sb1]

The offense is ass so we need both: get a new QB and load up the rest of the offense but it'll take time. Anyone that thinks this team will be a contender or even win >9 games next season is delusional.

Let Zappe compete with whomever they bring in. Mac is toast.

Yeah if McCorkle can play his way on to another team and does well there then good for him. It won't be here.

 

[venecol]

The problem is that strategically if you think we might have the QB on the roster, you really should commit to a different direction. Either say you can run it back with Zappe/Mac and leverage the high picks to go all in on the WR's and line OR get the new QB and start building up the line and methodically build around him for 2-3 years.

They need to just pick a direction and go all in. This team has been too wishy washy.

I'm not saying that Zappe is the guy. More than likely he's not. We need to go after a QB regardless. If Zappe shows growth during the offseason, then let the rookie sit until he's needed a/o ready. If he doesn't win a competition against a rookie or some backup veteran, then so be it. And yes, need to go 1st three rounds on offense and during FAcy as well. The days of defense wins games are over.

 

[p8ryts]

Probably because a SB win would by definition make them not a QB bust?

No team has ever been terrible solely because of a QB.

I think this year's team was terrible because of a QB. We should have had at least a middle of the road record.

 

[venecol]

I think this year's team was terrible because of a QB. We should have had at least a middle of the road record.

That would've put them in the mid teens like in '21 and Bill would've drafted a DL/DE or CB, prolonging the years of a middling team even longer. The only saving grace this season is the chance to have a top 3 pick. We shouldn't blow that chance.

 

[skinnydog]

No team has ever built a SB Champ around a bust Qb draft pick either
And no team has ever won solely because of a Qb.

It’s not complicated. Take the QB. If the QB is a bust, try again. Otherwise have fun rooting for the Pats to on the plus side of .500 and fighting for the last wild card position. No one said it takes only a QB, that’s a straw man. But it is much, much easier to build a great around a QB than a LT.

 

[n6249c]

…
IF we are going to say Zappe deserves a chance with a better team, I don't see how you reconcile that thinking Mac isn't the same boat.

one turns into a turtle as soon as the ball is snapped; the other doesn’t. I don’t see how you don’t see that as being a big difference.

 

[Ring 6]

No team has ever been terrible solely because of a QB.

Not true at all

 

[Ring 6]

It’s not complicated. Take the QB. If the QB is a bust, try again. Otherwise have fun rooting for the Pats to on the plus side of .500 and fighting for the last wild card position. No one said it takes only a QB, that’s a straw man. But it is much, much easier to build a great around a QB than a LT.

It’s very complicated, or every team that takes the qb would go win a Sb.