NEW ARTICLE: Zappe’s Emergence is Certainly Changing Patriots’ QB Conversation

[Wozzy]

It is absolutely misleading and has nothing to do with Mac Jones. You made it look like Zappe and the offense scored 21 points or more in three games this season. They didn’t. They only did once.

And other than on the second half Sunday, Zappe and the offense has struggled to move the ball consistently. The offense had seven three and outs against Denver. Seven. I think four or five of Zappe’s TD drives have started on the opponent’s side of the field.

The Patriots scored 21 points or more only four times this season, three of those were Zappe starts... that's a fact.

It's only misleading because it doesn't say what you want it to say.

 

[Rob0729]

The Patriot's Defense leads the entire NFL in pick sixes, they rank 2nd in fumble/scoop and scores.... you pretending like Mac didn't get help from his defense in his eleven starts is a load of crap.

The Patriots scored 21 points or more only four times this season, three of those were Zappe starts... that's a fact.

It's only misleading because it doesn't say what you want it to say.

Why are you keep talking about Mac Jones? I am not talking about Mac Jones.

But the Pats only have 17 turnovers this year and six of them happened after Zappe took over. They are sixth worse in the turnover category. I started a thread on this yesterday. The Pats one defensive TD this season. And I think they only have one special teams TD off of turnover.

2023 NFL Defense & Special Teams (DST) Statistics | Fantasy Football | FantasyPros

View defense & special teams stats for the 2023 NFL season. Find out who the leaders are in standard scoring formats and see which players are available in your fantasy football league.

www.fantasypros.com

Ok, at least we agree that Zappe and the offense only scored over 21 points once. If you want to give Zappe credit for special team TDs, you can do it. Doesn't change the fact that other than this Sunday, Zappe and the offense can't move the ball outside the 20s. And it also doesn't change the fact that the offense since Zappe took over is at the bottom of the league in scoring. If you want to give him credit for special teams TDs to make yourself feel better, go for it.

 

[Wozzy]

Why are you keep talking about Mac Jones? I am not talking about Mac Jones.

But the Pats only have 17 turnovers this year and six of them happened after Zappe took over. They are sixth worse in the turnover category. I started a thread on this yesterday. The Pats one defensive TD this season.

2023 NFL Defense & Special Teams (DST) Statistics | Fantasy Football | FantasyPros

View defense & special teams stats for the 2023 NFL season. Find out who the leaders are in standard scoring formats and see which players are available in your fantasy football league.

www.fantasypros.com

Ok, at least we agree that Zappe and the offense only scored over 21 points once. If you want to give Zappe credit for special team TDs, you can do it. Doesn't change the fact that other than this Sunday, Zappe and the offense can't move the ball outside the 20s. And it also doesn't change the fact that the offense since Zappe took over is at the bottom of the league in scoring. If you want to give him credit for special teams TDs to make yourself feel better, go for it.

Are you having the same conversation with me on two different Pat's forums?

I'd also add that the one start Mac scored more than 21 points, the Buffalo game, Chad Ryland was a perfect 3-3 on field goals... he has melted in Zappe starts so Mac was the beneficiary of that. Don't you dare give Mac special teams points.. that wouldn't be fair.

 

[Rob0729]

Are you having the same conversation with me on two different Pat's forums?

I'd also add that the one start Mac scored more than 21 points, the Buffalo game, Chad Ryland was a perfect 3-3 on field goals... he has melted in Zappe starts so Mac was the beneficiary of that. Don't you dare give Mac special teams points.. that wouldn't be fair.

I am not talking about Mac Jones. He is done. You may be comparing the two QBs, but I am only talking about Zappe. I have moved on from Mac.

I didn't give Mac any credit for any score. Ones he made. Ones his defense made. Ones the special teams made. I am only talking about Zappe.

And Ryland has missed nine field goals this year. Both QBs have suffered for Ryland's poor kicking.

 

[PatsFan2]

We should be Scouting College and Pro Back-up QB's and not get into debate over those two Stiffs. I don't even want Zappe as a Bridge QB now and I was a supporter he stinks like Mac.

 

[Wozzy]

I am not talking about Mac Jones. He is done. You may be comparing the two QBs, but I am only talking about Zappe. I have moved on from Mac.

I didn't give Mac any credit for any score. Ones he made. Ones his defense made. Ones the special teams made. I am only talking about Zappe.

And Ryland has missed nine field goals this year. Both QBs have suffered for Ryland's poor kicking.

I said Ryland was a perfect 3-3 in the Buffalo game Mac won and the only game the team scored 21 points or more under Mac.

Zappe hasn’t been great by any means, he’s just been better than Mac and has only started 7 games in his career versus Mac’s 42 games. He can possibly improve.

Mac gave as many points to the opponents with pick sixes, fumble/scoop and scores as he scored himself.

With actual great QB play this season we have a winning record and are fighting for the AFC East title… it wasn’t a lack of weapons. Brady won way more with a lot less, so have other great QB’s.

 

[Rob0729]

I said Ryland was a perfect 3-3 in the Buffalo game Mac won and the only game the team scored 21 points or more under Mac.

Zappe hasn’t been great by any means, he’s just been better than Mac and has only started 7 games in his career versus Mac’s 42 games. He can possibly improve.

Mac gave as many points to the opponents with pick sixes, fumble/scoop and scores as he scored himself.

With actual great QB play this season we have a winning record and are fighting for the AFC East title… it wasn’t a lack of weapons. Brady won way more with a lot less, so have other great QB’s.

Again, I don't anymore about Mac Jones. He is not the Patriots' starting QB. This is a thread about Bailey Zappe.

And if the Pats had Brady in his prime, they might be competing for the division. Anything less, not a chance. This offense sucks from top to bottom. There might be four, maybe five starters I would want back next year.

But if this offense isn't that bad, what does that say about your boy Zappe when he could only score over 20 points once since he became starter and that was only a 21 points game. And that was against a team that let Goff pass for 5 TDs the week before.

 

[Toofy]

Too many variables and everyone have their own biases. But you need to start with a premise.

Absolute Premises

Mac is not our franchise QB
We do not have true WR1
We do not have solid offensive line play
We have an abysmal special teams
Zappe is not bona-fide QB1 as on date.

Now we start with these and make our decisions . We might not make post season in 2024 but can possibly try to hedge risks especially at QB and draft accordingly.

2024 draft

1. Draft best available QB and hope that it pans out and start with zappe and see if he can be your franchise QB.
Hopefully one among them pans out. If zappe balls out then you trade out your first round pick for max value at end of 2025 or 2026. If zappe is not answer continue with the round 1 QB( maye/daniels) till 2026.

2. Draft best available OT in round 2.
3. R3 toss up between OT and 3rd down running back.

Free agency

1. Resign onwenu, bourne , Henry , P.brown and zeke to maintain continuity.
2. I think we might not be in tee higgins stake as he will most likely get tagged , so best bet would be to nurture Thornton, juju and Boutte
3. Trade Parker
4. Extend barmore

If we suck in 2024 , we might be primed like bengals to hit on draft picks in 2025 and possibly starting the real rebuild. If we really play well in 2024 then we just need some smaller pieces to complement the team in 2025. Win win.

 

[Wozzy]

Again, I don't anymore about Mac Jones. He is not the Patriots' starting QB. This is a thread about Bailey Zappe.

And if the Pats had Brady in his prime, they might be competing for the division. Anything less, not a chance. This offense sucks from top to bottom. There might be four, maybe five starters I would want back next year.

But if this offense isn't that bad, what does that say about your boy Zappe when he could only score over 20 points once since he became starter and that was only a 21 points game. And that was against a team that let Goff pass for 5 TDs the week before.

They could have Mahomes, Burrow or Herbert and be contending for the AFC.

Brady wasn’t the only great QB when he played, and there’s still great QB’s now that he’s gone.

 

[Rob0729]

They could have Mahomes, Burrow or Herbert and be contending for the AFC.

Brady wasn’t the only great QB when he played, and there’s still great QB’s now that he’s gone.

Herbert wasn't a contender in San Diego with far better offensive talent than the Patriots. Mahomes is the best QB in the league and winning with horrible offensive talent around him. But he is a rarity. We haven't seen Burrow do it without top WR talent yet.

Sorry, but this offense is devoid of talent. It is really hard to argue otherwise.

 

[mgteich]

Herbert wasn't a contender in San Diego with far better offensive talent than the Patriots. Mahomes is the best QB in the league and winning with horrible offensive talent around him. But he is a rarity. We haven't seen Burrow do it without top WR talent yet.

Sorry, but this offense is devoid of talent. It is really hard to argue otherwise.

Let us be very clear.

I believe that if we would be in the playoff hunt today if our QB play had been that of an average QB in the NFL.

Our QB was one of the worst in the NFL; our backup was about the same.
=====================
Being a contender for the AFC championswhip is another matter. For this, we would need a top 10 QB and better talent at OT and WR.

 

[Rob0729]

Let us be very clear.

I believe that if we would be in the playoff hunt today if our QB play had been that of an average QB in the NFL.

Our QB was one of the worst in the NFL; our backup was about the same.
=====================
Being a contender for the AFC championswhip is another matter. For this, we would need a top 10 QB and better talent at OT and WR.

That is your opinion, not facts.

 

[Triumph]

Let us be very clear.

I believe that if we would be in the playoff hunt today if our QB play had been that of an average QB in the NFL.

Our QB was one of the worst in the NFL; our backup was about the same.
=====================
Being a contender for the AFC championswhip is another matter. For this, we would need a top 10 QB and better talent at OT and WR.

Basically, I have been saying the same thing for almost 2 years.

Mac Jones followers want to blame Patricia and Judge and the NE WRs, OL, and Bill Belichick. They do not want to touch sacred cow BOB.

 

[Nikolai]

A league average offense puts us around 7-8 wins. This doesn't account for the likely smaller number of pick sixes and such. You could put another win in there, most likely. It's a different season if we're scoring 21-22 points a game.

 

[Wozzy]

Herbert wasn't a contender in San Diego with far better offensive talent than the Patriots. Mahomes is the best QB in the league and winning with horrible offensive talent around him. But he is a rarity. We haven't seen Burrow do it without top WR talent yet.

Sorry, but this offense is devoid of talent. It is really hard to argue otherwise.

Huh?

Team defensive rankings over Herbert's four year career in points allowed: 22nd, 29th, 20th and 26th this season. His offensive lines have been a joke, bottom half of the league in rushing and a rotation of nobodies. And who were his amazing weapons? Keenan Allen was almost 30 when Herbert entered the league as a rookie, Mike Williams has played 14 games once during that time and he's almost 30. Oh yeah, then there's that problem of Herbert being coached by morons his entire pro career.... he's on his third head coach in four years.

Mahomes is not a unique in that he's surrounded by offensive talent, starting with one of the most expensive offensive lines in the NFL. He also has the premier offensive coordinator in the entire NFL in Andy Reid. His first year as a starter his defense stunk and they lost in the AFC Championship game. Reid immediately fired the defensive coordinator and hired Steve Spags and won a ring the very next season.

We saw Burrow explode out of the gate, but he had a bad offensive line so he sustained a knee in jury his rookie year. Then Burrow with great weapons and a horrible offensive line led the team all the way to a Super Bowl, where he subsequently got sacked 7 times and lost the game. The following year he and his super weapons got to the conference championship game, where he subsequntly got sacked 5 times and lost the game. Now Burrow is injured and can't play. He and his super weapons sustained it as long as they could... you don't just need the QB, you need the line, the weapons, the defense, the special teams and the coaching... you need it all.

With a great QB the last three years instead of Mac the outcome for this team is completely different. If they're battling for an AFC title Trent Brown doesn't opt out because his team only has two wins, Rhamondre probably hasn't shut it down for the year.

The line has Onwenu, Andrews, Strange, Sow... they need a left tackle next season assuming they re-sign Onwenu. They had great TE's, great RB's, and may have only had #2's at WR but so does 3/4's of the NFL. The defense is a top five unit despite carrying the league worst offense behind them and missing the single best player on the entire team in Judon and its two best young CB's.

No talent?

They need a QB, a kicker, a LT and to re-sign their own free agents... but it starts with finding a capable QB. They have a nice base of talent and the most cap space in the league going forward. Find a QB... the rest is easy.

 

[RIpats88]

Zappe's stats aren't much better than mac jones after last weeks game.



at some point. maybe its the QB's or maybe its the talent around them? hard to really know.

its a chicken and egg sort of thing. the QB's could be bad. but they have no OL and throwing to #3 and #4's as your top receivers.

 

[Rob0729]

Huh?

Team defensive rankings over Herbert's four year career in points allowed: 22nd, 29th, 20th and 26th this season. His offensive lines have been a joke, bottom half of the league in rushing and a rotation of nobodies. And who were his amazing weapons? Keenan Allen was almost 30 when Herbert entered the league as a rookie, Mike Williams has played 14 games once during that time and he's almost 30. Oh yeah, then there's that problem of Herbert being coached by morons his entire pro career.... he's on his third head coach in four years.

Mahomes is not a unique in that he's surrounded by offensive talent, starting with one of the most expensive offensive lines in the NFL. He also has the premier offensive coordinator in the entire NFL in Andy Reid. His first year as a starter his defense stunk and they lost in the AFC Championship game. Reid immediately fired the defensive coordinator and hired Steve Spags and won a ring the very next season.

We saw Burrow explode out of the gate, but he had a bad offensive line so he sustained a knee in jury his rookie year. Then Burrow with great weapons and a horrible offensive line led the team all the way to a Super Bowl, where he subsequently got sacked 7 times and lost the game. The following year he and his super weapons got to the conference championship game, where he subsequntly got sacked 5 times and lost the game. Now Burrow is injured and can't play. He and his super weapons sustained it as long as they could... you don't just need the QB, you need the line, the weapons, the defense, the special teams and the coaching... you need it all.

With a great QB the last three years instead of Mac the outcome for this team is completely different. If they're battling for an AFC title Trent Brown doesn't opt out because his team only has two wins, Rhamondre probably hasn't shut it down for the year.

The line has Onwenu, Andrews, Strange, Sow... they need a left tackle next season assuming they re-sign Onwenu. They had great TE's, great RB's, and may have only had #2's at WR but so does 3/4's of the NFL. The defense is a top five unit despite carrying the league worst offense behind them and missing the single best player on the entire team in Judon and its two best young CB's.

No talent?

They need a QB, a kicker, a LT and to re-sign their own free agents... but it starts with finding a capable QB. They have a nice base of talent and the most cap space in the league going forward. Find a QB... the rest is easy.

Mahomes surrounded by talent? The Chiefs might be the only team in the league with worse WRs than the Patriots. The Pats don't have a WR who could start on at least a third of the teams in the league and neither do the Chiefs.

The Bengals were 2-7-1 under Burrow his rookie year. Yes, Burrow played well in his rookie year, but the team didn't. It wasn't until he got Chase that they started to win games. It was the combo of Burrow/Chase/Higgins that made that team great.

And you are overrating the o-line. Strange is average. Sow isn't all that good.

And Henry is a good, not great TE. Douglas is probably the only WR who could start on more than a handful of NFL teams. The Patriots mostly have a bunch of 3s and 4s as WRs.

And Mac played well his rookie year. He was at least average to above average QB that year.

And as for next year, whoever the QB is, and it won't be Mac or Zappe, will likely have a better offense to work with.

 

[Jim Beankie]

I'm curious to see how Zap bounces back. In his 5th start, TB12 threw 4 INTs in One Quarter (4thQ against Denver - 10 attempts), including a pick 6 reminiscent of the Reagor target that led to the INT, where TB12 and the WR (TB80?) were not on the same page. The other 3 picks were just... really bad.

 

[Wozzy]

Mahomes surrounded by talent? The Chiefs might be the only team in the league with worse WRs than the Patriots. The Pats don't have a WR who could start on at least a third of the teams in the league and neither do the Chiefs.

Who led the Chiefs WR’s last year in receptions and yards when they won a championship? Juju… you really didn’t think this out did you.

The Bengals were 2-7-1 under Burrow his rookie year. Yes, Burrow played well in his rookie year, but the team didn't. It wasn't until he got Chase that they started to win games. It was the combo of Burrow/Chase/Higgins that made that team great.

Burrows rookie year the Bengal’s D was ranked 20th in points allowed. A year later they were ranked 8th. The entire team got better.

And you are overrating the o-line. Strange is average. Sow isn't all that good.

Add this to the terrible takes list… the left side of the line fell apart without Strange and Sow started every game he was healthy going back to preseason.

And Henry is a good, not great TE. Douglas is probably the only WR who could start on more than a handful of NFL teams. The Patriots mostly have a bunch of 3s and 4s as WRs.

Skip Kelce and Mark Andrews who get double the amount of targets every season… tell us some other TE’s who are great?

And Mac played well his rookie year. He was at least average to above average QB that year.

And Henry led the entire NFL in TD’s by a TE, but he’s just okay. Mac played well for a rookie, that doesn’t mean he played well for a third year vet. He never got better and only got worse. In fact it started his rookie season after the bye week… that’s when he crashed back to Earth.

And as for next year, whoever the QB is, and it won't be Mac or Zappe, will likely have a better offense to work with.

Mac will be gone.

Zappe might be the bridge guy to the rookie they inevitably draft, and he might not surrender the job easily. We’ll see…

 

[Rob0729]

Who led the Chiefs WR’s last year in receptions and yards when they won a championship? Juju… you really didn’t think this out did you.

Burrows rookie year the Bengal’s D was ranked 20th in points allowed. A year later they were ranked 8th. The entire team got better.

Add this to the terrible takes list… the left side of the line fell apart without Strange and Sow started every game he was healthy going back to preseason.

Skip Kelce and Mark Andrews who get double the amount of targets every season… tell us some other TE’s who are great?

And Henry led the entire NFL in TD’s by a TE, but he’s just okay. Mac played well for a rookie, that doesn’t mean he played well for a third year vet. He never got better and only got worse. In fact it started his rookie season after the bye week… that’s when he crashed back to Earth.

Mac will be gone.

Zappe might be the bridge guy to the rookie they inevitably draft, and he might not surrender the job easily. We’ll see…

The Chiefs let JuJu walk. They didn’t even try to resign him. Even though they have no WRs, they decided Kadarius Toney was a better option at WR than Smith-Schuster. What does that say? JuJu’s knee is toast. The Chiefs knew it. Belichick didn’t.

Sow started because there is no one else. Not that he is good. He has been ok since moving him back to guard and he was a disaster at tackle. The line struggled with Strange went out because Mafi is awful not because Strange is so good. The Pats barely have five o-line who can play. The second they lost anyone, the o-line falls apart. The Pats have absolutely no depth at o-line.

At least you agree with me that Henry is good and not great. Kittle, Hockenson, Engram, Nojku, and LaPorta are all better than Henry.

Zappe is not going to be the bridge QB. He is a back up. That is his ceiling. He will not be starting for the Patriots next year. The Pats will bring in a veteran QB who can start or will be starting a rookie.